Misbah Gulzar explores the interplay of resilience, intersectionality, and self-validation, weaving personal narratives from her South Asian heritage and criminal justice career into a powerful testament to forging inclusive cultures and redefining belonging.
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood explores the theme of resilience and identity with guest Misbah Gulzar. Against the backdrop of cultural expectations and the evolution of societal norms, Misbah shares her journey from a strict South Asian Muslim upbringing to forging her own path, both personally and professionally. Their conversation dives into the complex realities of arranged marriage, family expectations, and the arduous process of self-validation, with Joanne drawing parallels to her own experiences of seeking affirmation and acceptance. Together, they reflect on the transformation of tradition, the meaning of belonging, and the courage it takes to step beyond prescribed boundaries.
“I did decide that actually I couldn't get— I didn't want an arranged marriage. I wasn't the type of person that could probably sustain that relationship, and that was partly due to having to, you know, have these like multiple identities, you know, trying to be somebody at home and then when you're out of home trying to be somebody else.”
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Joanne Lockwoodhost
Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuaryfor bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood,your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart ofinclusion, belonging, and societal transformation.Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyonenot only belongs but thrives. You're not alone.Join me as we uncover the unseen, challengethe status quo, and share storeys that resonatedeep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you'resipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let'sconnect, reflect, and inspire action together.Don't forget, You can be part of the conversation too. Reach outto [email protected]to share your insights or to join me on the show.So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time toignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.And today is episode 214.With the title Resilience Beyond Barriers.And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome MisbahGulzar. Misbah is a resilience-driven inclusion advocatewith nearly 20 years' experience in the criminal justice system,navigating new beginnings while championing psychological safeand inclusive workplaces shaped by her own livedexperience. When I asked Misbah to describe her superpower, she said thatit is her resilience and patience inspired by herchildren and strengthened through overcoming personal andprofessional barriers. Hello, Misbah. Welcome to the show. Hi,
Misbah Gulzarguest
Joanne. It's lovely to be here. Thank you so much. Really looking forward tothe next kind of hour with you. But yeah, amazing. Pleasure.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I always like to ask my guests whereabouts in the world they are.
Misbah Gulzarguest
Yeah, so I am in Stoke-on-Trent, which for people that don't know is in theMidlands and is famous for its pottery.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yes, because if you drive through, you've got all the kilns, thepottery-shaped kilns. Yeah. Quite iconic. It is
Misbah Gulzarguest
definitely iconic. It's an industry that obviously with, you know, theindustrialisation is not something that is as evident, butthere's still lots of working kilns within within the, the area. So yeah, it'samazing. Wow. You're probably, I think I said to you in the green room, you're
Joanne Lockwoodhost
probably the closest guest and we're still what, 200 miles apart,but you're probably the closest guest I've had for a long while. So yeah, it'sabsolutely lovely to speak to someone from the UK for a change. So you lookat the notes you sent in, you talked about resilience,inclusion, and you actually said that you've got 5 children andthey've inspired you and taught you a lot over your recent life.But take us back to being a young woman? How did thatshape your, your belief system? So, um, I
Misbah Gulzarguest
grew up in a quite a fairly strict South AsianMuslim household. I was one of 5 children. Um, I was the only one,uh, that was able to go to university, so that was a hugeprivilege. Um, I went away to university, gotthe necessary qualifications that I went to get. Um,Came back, and then, as with lots of South Asiancommunities, you know, the question of marriage arose, 'cause I wasat that age. I'd obviously seen the world. I'd seenit bigger than the northern mill town that I grew upin, and I wanted to see the rest of the world, and I wanted tobe part of society as a whole. So, at that point, you know, I hadto make a decision in terms of, you know, there's two roads that I cantravel down. I either continue on the path that I'm on and stay with
Misbah Gulzarguest
my family, have the arranged marriage, be very unhappy andunsatisfied with life, or I decide to do my ownjourney. And obviously, whilst by doing my own journey,that would definitely mean consequences that I would have to reallydeal with along the way. So I did choose the latter.I did decide that actually I couldn't get— Ididn't want an arranged marriage. I wasn't the type of person that could probablysustain that relationship, and that was partlydue to having to, you know, have these likemultiple identities, you know, trying to be somebody at home and then whenyou're out of home trying to be somebody else. So essentially that decision was madeand I left home and kind of tried to make it for myselfreally. And, and that's when I had to really—I really understood what the world was and how difficult it was tonavigate, how difficult it was to be on your own, how hardit was to just kind of get through thedaily kind of routine of everything. Um, so thatthen led me to, um, you know, finding worksubsequently after my degree that I completed. Um, andthen, you know, I, it just kind of developed from there.So yeah, it's been, it's been quite a difficult journey andit's taught me a lot. And I think part of my resiliencehas come from that, you know. So yeah. Actually.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I know very little about arranged marriages,the cultural significance from your communities and whatthat means in a 2026 context, if you like, maybein a 1950s or 1960s context,but that must have been a huge,huge choice for you to step out of the family.It's almost like leaving a cult or something. You're beingexcommunicated, you're being shunned as being a nonconformer. Andyou're, I'm gonna put words in your mouth, if it sort of brought shameon your family, those type of things. So that's what you had to face.Can you go into that? Yeah, no, absolutely. So I wanna say from the outset
Misbah Gulzarguest
that I'm an advocate for arranged marriages. I'm not against it. I think once,I think if they're done correctly, as inconsent from both parties and there's no coercion oranything of that nature, I think they're amazing in terms of— andI think statistics do show that the arranged marriagestend to have a bit of a higher success rate than lovemarriages. So, you know, that's what I want to say from the outset. In termsof the situation that I'd been in, it was, you know, acomfortable middle-class environment, a comfortable middle-class family, and I,like you said, I had to make that decision to leave thatcomfortableness, leave that ease of, you know, not having to worry aboutanything, being protected, and kind of almost living in a shell, toactually going into the big, big wide world where I'm going to beexposed to everything that I've never really been exposed tobefore. And Joanne, you mentioned the cultural aspect of it as wellin terms of the shame. So you've got to think back 30 years ago,this was unheard of. There were very few females that would absolutelytake that step, and it was a different generation as well back then. So whenyou look at today's generation, there's choice, There'sabsolute decision-making. The coercion is a lot less,and we live in a different society, so it's not the same. But back30, 30-odd years ago, none of that existed. So thedecision that I was making had a detrimental impact uponmy family in terms of how they were viewed by the community. Somy dad, God rest his soul, was a very highlyrespected member of the community. He was very religious. He was wellthought of. My whole family was actually thought well of. Sodoing what I did essentially created,and I left behind so much, um,kind of pain and suffering, if that makes sense, thatthey had to deal with on my behalf, which isdifficult to kind of process, butI can imagine how hard that would've been. So they were left withhaving to answer the community, or, well, your, your daughter, where is she gone? Whyis she not here? Why is she not married? Where's she? What's happened to her?So all these questions I imagine my family would've had to experienceand go through. That I'm not particularly okaywith. However, I think if I hadn'thave made that decision, then I wouldn't be sitting here today with you,and I wouldn't have the amazing life and progressthat I've made and all the achievements that I've made. That, that wouldn't be anythingat all. It would be a completely different person sitting, sitting hereright now. Forgive me if I just ask, you've got me
Joanne Lockwoodhost
curious. Had you got to the stage where prospectivesuitors were being lined up and you—.
Misbah Gulzarguest
Yeah. Again, I'm trying not to put words in your mouth. Yeah. Had someone have
Joanne Lockwoodhost
been, had one of the prospective suitors been an ideal match, you may wellhave fallen in, but you found that they weren't suitable?
Misbah Gulzarguest
So the matches were predominantly from Pakistan. So I,at this point, was completely westernised and I knew that I would not beable to have that communication level. Level that I wanted with that person. And ofcourse, with that person comes his culture, comes his kind of likeperception of women, all of that he brings with him. So Iwas essentially, you know, having to decide, amI, am I able to give all that up to an individual, toanother person, to be in control of? So in terms of my siblings, they weredifferent. So they were, in terms of their mindset, their cultural mindset, theirreligious mindset, was completely different to mine. Because, you know, I had had theopportunity to leave home, I had had the opportunity chance to see theworld for what it was. They hadn't. They had been protected, and
Misbah Gulzarguest
they didn't know any other way. So I had thatopportunity. So I just wanted to make sure that, you know,and as hard as it was and as difficult it wasfor me to kind of refuse my parents' wishes,I absolutely knew at the bottom, you know, deep down, that I couldnever sustain anything like this, and it wasn't going to end well.So I was prepared to take the risk ofleaving that comfortableness and making it out on myown and just taking whatever came in my way and dealing with it.I was that kind of strong in my belief.Some may say stupid, some may say, you know, you don't know what you're lettingyourself in for. How can you leave what you've got essentially isa perfect kind of setup to something that's gonna be full of uncertainty?You're going to be shunned by your family, you're going to be disowned, you're notgoing to have a community, you're literally going to be on your own. So, youknow, all of this was kind of— and at that point I was like 19,20, Joanne, so I wasn't even fully kindof— I know females mature quicker than males interms of their maturity levels, but you've got tounderstand that I'd lived a very sheltered, very protectedlife. So there was lots of, lots of things that werewere gonna be, were gonna be difficult that I had to face. Again,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I, I'm making some assumptions based on my own beliefs and biases.The Pakistani manwould bring, as you say, their religious beliefs, theircultural beliefs, and almosttreat you as property. You would, you would have less choice andfreedoms. In my head, that was what my perception was
Misbah Gulzarguest
because what I saw was my sisters and my sisters weren'tbadly treated or mistreated in any way, shape, or form. But I saw that thelives that they led, their lives were simplistic, they werestraightforward, they, you know, and there's. Nothing wrong with
Joanne Lockwoodhost
baby machine. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Misbah Gulzarguest
But I knew that that wasn't what I wanted. I knew that that wasn'twhat I could kind of tolerate or accept. Sofor me, you know, somebody from Pakistan, you know, he's got like, he's got hisown belief systems, he's got this idea or perception of women. So wouldthat mean that if I were to have a career, he would turn around andsay, actually, no, you can't work, you need to be at home, or you can'tdress like that, or you can't wear makeup. And these are things, and they'requite kind of large examples, but, you know, that was what was going on inmy head, thinking I'm going to lose completely all of my identity, even thoughmy, the identity that I've got is, is confused anyway because I'm trying tobe two people at the same time and it's, it's confusing. And then add anotherlayer on top of that with somebody else coming in, and then I've gotadapt to his way of thinking and his belief system. So I think that,that for me was, was too much to kind of appreciateand understand. This was, I mean, guessing from the language you're
Joanne Lockwoodhost
using, this is 20 or 30 years ago? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Misbah Gulzarguest
It was a long time. And like I say, traditionally, my parentsweren't of the mindset offreedom in that type of way, whereas You know, you lookat the parents today and there isn't thatpush. You can go and have a love marriage, you can go and, you know,choose your own partner. And I think one key thing thatI kind of want to mention, and this isn't me comingfrom any place of importance or anything like that, but I think the decisionthat I made absolutely impactedpositively on my nieces and nephews. So they didn't have toexperience what I experienced. So they were able to choosefreely. And now from, you know, understandingwho they've married, the majority of them haven't beenPakistani people. They've been Indian or they've been from adifferent country. So all that pressure that was put on me, they hadto be Paki— they had to be from Pakistan and nowhere else, and they hadto be a certain caste, that, that didn't happen to them.And I think I know for sure that I probably was one of the reasonswhy I think that my sisters and my brother thought,we have to deal with this differently with our children, and we can't put themthrough potentially, you know, what, what I was put through.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So as you say, you're not against arranged marriage, it's just themechanism and thelevel of, I suppose, operation, you know, if youwere, if your views and wishes were put into there,And you had some, can I say, buying criteria, uh,or profile criteria, then you might say, but absolutely,if you can meet this kind of aspiration for me, I'dlove you to find my perfect gentleman that isaligned to who you are today, if you like. Absolutely. But
Misbah Gulzarguest
those choices were presented to me. It was this or nothing. It was A, therewasn't a plan B or C. It was, this is the person. And the personthey wanted me to get married to was a cousin from Pakistan. And I, youknow, as as lovely and as nice as he might have been, he wasn'tthe fit for me at all. So again, can I, if you don't mind
Joanne Lockwoodhost
me asking, what is the kind of criteria? Is it, well,I suppose top of the list is available. Is age a criteria? Isthere, you say their caste, where they are in society,their wealth, the family connection. Is it all around trying tobring families together and enhance the overall family structure toget the perfect person to amplify and to connect you together? Is that kindof the motivation? Yeah, no, absolutely. When, when the situation of
Misbah Gulzarguest
arranged marriages comes up, it's primarily to look within theextended family initially, because it is all about keeping the familytogether. I guess, you know, you know your family better than you would knowa complete stranger, because you've literally grown up with them, and you understand how theyare as people. So that's a positive thing. Obviously, if that's not possible,then you do look outside of your family. But the caste, for a lot ofpeople, is very, very important. And I know that within the Hindu religion,caste is hugely, hugely for important for different reasons, butwithin, within the Muslim culture, and again, it's not religion. Sothis, this is, this is the other kind of problem that— not problem,but battle that I had. So growing up, there was a lot of
Misbah Gulzarguest
mixing up of culture and religion, so that line was almosterased, so they all combined into one. And that was very, very difficult for meto kind of understand, and, and for, for a while, I kind ofrejected I don't know if rejected is the right wordor too much of a strong word, but I put my religion on pause becauseI, I didn't understand it. I I didn't, didn't accept itcompletely because of the misunderstanding of it. But I think that's one ofthe things that, you know, still happens today.But having now coming backto my religion and understanding the entirety of it, Isee it in a completely different, different view. Point. And lots of thingsthat were associated with, well, this is a religious thing and that's why we're doingit. It wasn't a religious thing, it was a cultural thing. You read the Quranand you think, well, actually that's, that's not even in there. And, but yeah, Iwas told that I have to do this, or this, it's gotta be done thisway, it's gotta be done that way. So for me, that clarity of, you know,difference between what is culture and what is religion is soimportant. And I think that was half my battle. And I think, andnot blaming my parents for any of this, because you've gottaunderstand that they were immigrants, and they were, you know, they came here in the'70s. They had to, you know, absolutely have had to, to day-to-daytolerate so much abuse. And I would, I can't put myself in them shoes. I'mthankful that they, you know, provided and they put me in a position that I'min. But I think they had so much to contend with,and this was just another thing. So I think they did the best that theycould with the resources and understanding that they had.So there's no, you know, I'm not sitting here blaming my parents or saying theywere bad people, or my family, not at all. I don't put any kindof, um, anything like that at their door, because that would be completelyunfair. No, because they were caught up in the same construct
Joanne Lockwoodhost
of tradition and culture, expectation,and they're just trying to pass their traditions and culture and expectations on to you.Yeah. As— because that's the expectation they have on them, becauseas you said, a of a lot the, lot of the shame was on them,not on you. Yeah. They, they, they weren't, they must have been badparents for you to go off the rails and not be a, a good daughter.Yeah. So they have probably had to absorb all of that. Absolutely. And, and, and
Misbah Gulzarguest
that's the one thing that really kind of I, I've had tobattle with over the years and, you know, but then at some pointyou have to appreciate and you have to, and again, youdon't need their valid. And the other thing that I've tried to do over theyears is get their validation. And I wanna explain that a little bit more.I want them, I mean, both my parents sadly have passed away now, butI wanted them to know and to see the achievementsand, and what what I, I had done with my life. I wanted them tobe proud of me. I wanted them to kind of say, well, yeah, she didwhat she did, but look at how much she's accomplished onher own. So that, you know, and, and for years and years Iused to crave for that validation. I wanted it, but then therealisation hit me that, you know what? That is important, and ifit came, that would have been amazing. But actually, you have to validate yourselffirst. You shouldn't look to others for validation. And that was akey point for me to say, do you know what,as much as I would have liked my parents to see, youknow, that I've bought my own house, I'm a single parent, I've been throughlots of situations with the, you know, with the marriage that I was in, um,but actually I, I'm still focused. I'm still agood human. I'm very respectable. I haven'tbeen doing drugs or drinking or gone off the rails.I, you know, I've been a perfectly respectable person. I've stayed trueto who I am and I've represented you in the best way possible.So yeah, and, and now, like I say, I don't search for that validation. Idon't want it. I don't need it. And and, and, and I, I think withhaving my kids as well, They're the only validation that Ineed. They're the only people that I need to not impress necessarily, but tobe a good role model to. So I'm again assuming here that you've
Joanne Lockwoodhost
now created your own new family culture and traditionswhere you are the beginning of it and you've invented your own,this is what we do to your children andthat they're they're presumably, free to explore their faith, their religion.,or not, or whatever might make sense to them, and then explore their life ina way that you, maybe you didn't have the opportunity to. Yeah, no, absolutely.
Misbah Gulzarguest
So my, I've, I've got 5 children, 2 of whom are, um,are Muslim and 3 are not currently Muslim. They'reexploring. And again, it's something that I'm not pressurising them, but Iam there for the knowledge and the understanding and the support. And I think forme, I would love them, if I'm being completely honest, I would love them for,for all of them to be Muslim in, in the correct way, but of courseI'm not enforcing that. I just want them to begood adults, P adults, indiv— you know, I just wantthem to be the best people that they can be, thebest, you know, um, people within society. And,and I think I'm proud of them regardless. They've, you know,there's no disappointment here. They are,you know, they've got their— they've got good heads on their shoulders, and, andthey've, they've experienced faced lots of difficultiesand they've experienced something that perhaps their friends haven'tin terms of their, you know, their mum and theirmum's situation. So, you know, my parents, mychildren are mixed race as well. So that's another layer that adds on to that.So they, they have to, um, you know,navigate that aspect of it as well. But yeah, all in all, they're,they're amazing and I couldn't be more thankful. That's wonderful.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I know what it's like to seek validation from yourparents. I did a bit of a, I don't know, I had a bit ofa left turn when I was 16, 17, 18.I guess I went through that stage where I rebelled and I did something andI brought a little bit of shame to my parents because of what I did.And I never really reconciled with my father until maybe the last coupleof years of his life. Life. And I realised I didn't need validation. I justneeded him to understand that I've done okay. I mayhave caused him a lot of pain, may have caused him a lot of struggles.Yeah. And I've done things that he probably is confusedabout, but I just want to say to him, it's very similar to you. I'mdoing all right. I've got a couple of kids. I'm married. I'm still married after40, nearly 40 years. And I'm very successful and I add valuein the world and society. You don't have to get it, justappreciate that I'm, I've not failed. And that's kind of all you want your,for from your parents really. And I think that's probably what I want from mychildren is for them to look at me and go, don't always agree with eachother, but as long as we all respect each other, that's all you can askfor. No, absolutely. I had the opportunity
Misbah Gulzarguest
to kind of get my father's forgiveness or reconciliation,whatever you want to, whatever you want to call it. And he,you know, sadly was at the later stages of his life. He suffered withleukaemia towards the end. So he asked for me to come andsee him, which was a hugely emotional experience, as you canimagine. I've not seen him for years and years. And, you know, he was— Isat next to, you know, sat in next to his hospital bed and,you know, we spoke and a little bit and he forgave me and, you know,that's, that's all I kind of really wanted from him. So yeah, it was a.It was another turning point, but it was hugely difficult, butit was really welcome in the same way. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I know exactly what you mean. I was there when my father passed and hetook his last breath. And I'm really pleased that we got to thatpoint because there's no pointin having regrets after someone's passed. You know, I didn't wanthim to carry that to his grave and I didn't want to get to asituation where I never, we never reconciled. And luckily we did. And I'm, I'malways proud of the fact that at the end we were together.
Misbah Gulzarguest
Yeah. And it all worked out. Yeah. It's amazing. And I look
Joanne Lockwoodhost
back and I know I could have done things differently. I was, I had toshare some of the challenges and he could have behaved differently, but in thatlast breath, none of that matters. You know, I was holding his hand andthat's all that mattered. He knew he wasn't alone. And I thinkthat was the important thing for me. So I'm pleased you, you were able toreconcile. Yeah. At least in part. So you, you'vehad a career. I noticed that you spent a lot of time working in thecriminal justice system. That must have been a challenge as well.
Misbah Gulzarguest
Yeah. So that, that was really interesting for me because I guess before anyone stepsinto a prison, we've got our own stereotypes of what a prison looks like, howit operates, how dangerous it is. Obviously I had all those stereotypes.And as I said earlier on, my intention was never to have a career withinthe prison service. It was just a stopgap. It was just, I'd been made redundantfrom Vodafone and I was looking for something in the interim. This came up. Ithought, well, I'll do this for a little while. So yeah, I did that. And
Misbah Gulzarguest
like I said, that I had the opportunity to work withlots of different individuals, understand their background, their stories,and I guess, you know, have a different perspective on crime and have adifferent perspective on you are a product of your environment. That doesn'tnecessarily mean that any criminal behaviour is justified.However, we have to understand the whole picture. So I,you know, worked primarily in Cat B prisons and inimmigration removal centres. And within Cat B prisons, I saw lots of peoplethat looked like they could have been my brother or my dad or my uncle.And that was, that, that was difficult tokind of really, you know, understand. And my role atthe time was having, you know, taking meetings withprisoners, supporting prisoners in terms of equality and diversity. So Ihad a lot of contact with them, which was fine. Fine. I had no issueswith that. But just sitting with them and trying to listen to kind oftheir storeys and how they got there and how they had, you know, what happened,and then looking at all the immense kind ofskills and, and, you know, the, the,the skill set that they had and the talent, and such a waste that theywere kind of in this environment. That was sad. That was very difficultto get my head around. But I had the privilege ofworking with, with lots of different individuals and hopefully made sometype of impact in their lives and hopefully made themthink a little bit differently. You know, I spoke to them as individuals, as humans,not as prisoners. I you didn't, know, see them as that. I just saw themas humans. But that was really, really
Misbah Gulzarguest
empowering to be able to, you know, get someone to say, "Oh, Miss,I'm on this course now, and I'm on the course because you mentioned it, andwhen I get out, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do that,and this, that, and the other." So, it was really— and I guess because therearen't a lot of people from ethnic minorities within the prison service, face,there aren't many role models. I kind of was reallypleased that I was able to do a little bit of that. And the higherthat you go into senior management, the less, the less kindof diversity you see. And then obviously,nearer towards the point that I was leaving, I was kind of quite seniorin my role, and I got to make some kind of really senior decisionsand make some impact, which I'm really kind of proud Yeah. Because
Joanne Lockwoodhost
we're all one bad decision away from potentially beingarrested. And as you say, many, many people in the criminaljustice system have made that one bad decision because their environment,their upbringing, the people they hang out with, or just something went badly wrong. Andthey, nobody sets out to be a career criminal until suddenlythat's their life. And helping people be able to reverse backand not be judged on the entirety of this part of their life andsaying, well, actually, let's go back to before that. How can how can we, wefind that person again and set them on a new course? That's the investmentwe need to make in people, isn't it? Rehabilitation. Rehabilitation
Misbah Gulzarguest
is key and it's the most important thing. And I think for me,regardless of whatever role you have within the prison system, whether you are thegovernor, whether you are a middle manager, whether you are an officerof whatever grade, you have a huge part to play inthe rehabilitation. You've got prisoners. People looking athow you act. You are role models, essentially. So you're there, youknow, not to just to lock doors and, you know, do the, the othernot so nice stuff. You're there to support them in the way that they'veprobably never seen that support before. So lots of individuals have probablynot been, had the privilege of having a comfortable environmentwith, you know, a mum and a dad. And, you know, they've probablyseen things that many of us haven't had to, you know, experience.So So, they're in effect, they'restarting again in terms of their socialisation and understanding ofhumanity. So, as working within the Prison Service, you've gotto be conscious of that, and you've got you to, know, step away from yourown stereotypes, and you have to be completely unbiasedin terms of how, you know, you speak to people and how you treat people.And that is hard. That is very, very hard. But it's something that I guessyou develop as you progress and you know, as,as you work within the Prison Service. State the best place to
Joanne Lockwoodhost
rehabilitate people? Because I think you're obviously hanging aroundin a culture, and no matter how muchyou want to rehabilitate yourself, escape from it,you're constantly being introduced to bad choices orbad relationships. I just wonder sometimes is whether the prison,the prison environment is the right place to rehabilitate, which is why people keep gettingsucked back into it, or or it's almost like you're in a swimming pool andthere's chains and you keep getting pulled back beneath the water all the time. Yeah.
Misbah Gulzarguest
I mean, the rates of recidivism, as in people leaving and thenreoffending, are quite high and they've been high for many yearsnow. So I guess prison is probably not the place forrehabilitation for everybody. And I think at the moment it'skind of one size fits all, which it shouldn't be. There are a lot ofpeople within the prison estate that are mentally unwell.The prison setting is not going to assist themin their wellbeing because of the way that it's set up. And on the otherhand, there are people that absolutely need to be withinthat environment and absolutely have to abide by all theprison rules because that is exactly what they need. But, you know, we live ina society that, you know, the world is politically is just hugelyjust changing and we don't know what's going to happen in the not so farfuture. But I think in terms of prisons, prisons,they do need some kind of, you know, just reviewing.But when prisons work, they really work. So, you've got your accessto education, you've got access to new skills and training that youpotentially might not have on the outside. So, for somebody who wants tomake that change and is willing to put the work in, theresources are there. So, you know, there'slots of resources. Does prison try to be too many different
Joanne Lockwoodhost
things? Because in one stream, it's therefor punishment, for retribution, forthe people who've been victimized, the people who've been traumatized, orthey want to feel that justice has been served. So that, that there needs tobe that element of restricted access and punishment, quiterightly in some respects. But also the other side of that ispreparing someone for life after. I guess if you're you're behindbars for a long time, 5, 10, 20 years,then you've got a lot of time to reflect, but you've also got a lotof time to rehabilitate, become a better person, to see the error of your ways.But is the prison system geared up for that? That sort of duality, ifyou like, of purpose? I think when we kind of
Misbah Gulzarguest
release prisoners back into the community, I don't think we've got that bit right. Sothe resettlement piece. So you've been inside for 10 years, maybe, maybe a littlebit longer than that. You've served your sentence, you're now due to released,how do we support that individual? So from when they wentin to when they come out, society's changed completely. Itchanges within, within months, things do change. So howdo we support those individuals to become fully fledged membersof their community? Support them not justfinancially, but support them psychologically as well, because thespace that they left behind 10, 15 years ago is on— is notthe same space. Um, you know, and then, you know, there's a wholequestion around housing and, and how do we get them in employment,you know. And all those areas, you know,there's— there needs to be some more work done on that. And some of the
Misbah Gulzarguest
areas there is progress that is being made, but you've got to really try andput yourself in, in those shoes and try and understand and navigate—how do you navigate a society that has changed beyondbelief and, you know, your IT, just to, you know, to start off with,with technology, the different language that's used, the different, you know,everything is just completely changed. So you don't want that individualthen, because they've not got that support, to revert back to how they used tobe, which is an easy thing to do and can be done quite quickly, andit would solve everything, and they would just be able to get into their littlekind of, you know, groups again and operate as they did beforethey were incarcerated. So the resettlement piece isis.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Huge. So if you were removed from society for15 years, let's say that's 2010, you think about whatwas going on in 2010, the rise of mobile phones,AI, the televisions,the television programs, the fact we don't do cash anymore, we had COVIDand there's a whole societal culture haschanged phenomenally in 15 Yes. Yeah, I really do think
Misbah Gulzarguest
that prior to resettlement, there's certain things that we need to beensuring that, you know, when offenders do leave,they've got everything that they need. And it's not to say that it's like atoolkit. Yeah, maybe a toolkit that they're armed with and they've gotsome support, but then the support's got to be ongoing. It can't just be, okay,that's it, now you're released, you're free to do whatever you want to do. Ithink there's got to be that wraparound support for at least ayear, I guess, just checking in with that individual and supporting them.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yes. For me, I keep thinking about this, you know, I look backat life in 1999,you know, you think for me, I'm just turned60, 61. And I look back and think, well, 1999, itdoesn't seem that long ago, but actually it was a different generation, even when ourchildren were born in the early '90s, you look back to that stage and theworld's changed so completely. And you look at a TV series like Call the Midwifeand places like that, you think, actually, actually, it's now set in theyear I was born, or I was a 5-year-old in that time.Wow, it's so backward, so different fromtoday, the attitudes. And yeah, so to be released into that world, you'dlack that cultural competency, wouldn't you? Absolutely. You just don't understandthe lingo, the language. It's like being in a foreign country. Definitely.
Misbah Gulzarguest
I think that's a really good way to describe it. It would just belike you don't speak the language anymore. You don't understand the culture anymore. It's allchanged. And yeah, I can't imagine how how difficult that must be.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And that, the knock-on of that is you would lack a sense of belongingand fit in society. So you'd feel like an outsider. You'dmaybe feel frustrated and angry or unsupported. Andyou, you're more likely to affiliate with people who have a similar kind offeeling of which are the, maybe the wrong crowd. Yeah. And, and
Misbah Gulzarguest
you've gotta remember that you've, you've been living in an environment that isinstitutionalized, but you've been protected. You've been part of acommunity. Somebody's always asking after you. Someone's You know, we need tomake sure that you are safe and all of that. And then you go fromthat situation to where you are just a small,small fish in the pond or whatever that terminology is. But toexperience that is, um, it's a lot. And, andI think that's why a lot of people decide that they,this is too much, it's too hard, it's too difficult. Let me just go backto the life that I know and I understand and that talks my language.And that's when it's very unfortunate. And the prison systemhas failed, essentially. People who leave the armed forces, they have come
Joanne Lockwoodhost
from that environment as well, where you, you know exactly what's expected ofyou every minute of the day. Yeah. Who's in charge,who you're in charge of. And as you say, someone cheques in on you ifsomething goes wrong, there's a support mechanism. And suddenly you are in thewide world and you, there's no rules, there's no enforcement otherthan be a good person. And earn a living and find somewhere tolive and fall in love or to find some friends. But there's no rulebook, is there? There's no instruction manual on that. No, not at all. SoI noticed that you put in your notes there that you've recently beenreintroduced to the gym. So you're finding fitness, areyou? Well, to get through this period of the, you
Misbah Gulzarguest
know, the redundancy and not, you know, having to do a 9 to 5currently, it was getting a little bit difficult and I just needed to, there wasno excuses anymore. I can go to the gym after I do the school run.I'm time rich now at the moment. I can drop the kids off and thenjust go to the gym for an hour. Do you know what? It's something that'sreally helping my wellbeing. It's something that's helping me,and I would absolutely recommend it. I know people are like, oh, it's thegym, and I haven't got enough time, or I can't be bothered, or it's justtoo much. But actually, I've definitely experienced the benefits ofit, and I am a good advocate forit. And I definitely think it's— and as you get older as as well, well.I think it's really important. Yeah, so I, yeah, Ilove going to the gym now. I do a few yoga classes here and there.I just do— I don't do anything too heavy because I'm not like, you know,I'm not trying to build muscle or stuff like that, but I'm just trying tokeep my body in, you know, in tone and stuff. So just the treadmill,rowing machine, and the step— the StairMaster. That'sit. I'm good. Oh, StairMaster. Yeah, that's my
Joanne Lockwoodhost
nemesis. You know, I don't mind the rowing machine, I don't mind the I don'tmind the, uh, um, the sit-on bike, you know, one the either the city upone or city down one or the treadmill. Yeah. Stairmaster, no, that, that,oh, that burns. That, yeah, it is hard. Yeah, it is. Yeah.It's probably my least favorite. I used to have a personal trainer for a whileand, uh, they'd say, you got the sled, haven't you? The oneto push that along with the weights. I hate that as well. I said to,I said to my PT, I said, I'd rather do the Stairmaster than the sled.And they went, what, really? I said, I know, you know how much I hatethe Stairmaster. But the sled, I just, I just couldn't. I don't know. It just,
Misbah Gulzarguest
it's a lot. We all have our killer, killer
Joanne Lockwoodhost
stance, don't we? The one thing that, you know, oh, so I'm one of thesepeople that likes to plank. Yeah, you could. Yeah, that's good though. That's really good
Misbah Gulzarguest
for your core. I can do a minute. I can do a minute easily. And
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I was, I was doing a minute, minute rest,minute, minute rest. I could do 3. And I was, Inever quite got to the point where I was going to do more than that,but I always had this dream I was going to do 5 minutes one someday.Maybe I'll go back to it. I'm sure you'll be able to manage it.Yeah. But I can never do the bit where you lift your hands up andput them back down again, or you tap your shoulders and things like that. That
Misbah Gulzarguest
was— Yeah, that takes a lot of upper strength. Yeah. That's stillgood enough though. That's still good. Yeah. But I know what you mean.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I haven't been for about 6 months. My wife and I, we'vehad some health difficulties. We've had bereavement issues. We've got a new puppy. So we'vegot lots of things going on in our life. And it just fell off thelist. And now I'm taking the puppy for a walkevery morning. My wife takes her every evening and I do a couple of milesat the weekend per day, Saturday and Sunday. So we're getting out there and doingstuff. So I'm getting some exercise. I need to,I do need to go back to the gym. So maybe, maybe you've just inspiredme to go. I hope so. And anyone who's listening, what's your excuse ifyou're listening? Even 30 minutes, you don't have to like, and just go
Misbah Gulzarguest
a couple of times a week. That's it. And I like the gym that Igo to because it's got like a women's section. Not that I'm ashamed of mybody or anything, but within that space, you just feel like you feel comfortable andyou can just do what you need to do. I'm not one of these thatwants to be like in the middle of the gym and just like everyone lookingat me. And yeah, I kind of just want to do my thing. Yeah,just want to walk in, do my thing, walk back out again, and that's it,job done. I want to be, um, what's the word, inconspicuous.Yeah, just in and out. Because they could be quite intimidating spaces,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
can't they? Definitely. They've got their own, you know, we talked about culture earlier, fittingin, you've got to— you walk in there, you think, all these fit people, they'veall got their act together, they've all got this, and no one needs to knowwhat they're doing. I'm walking in, so now you use the machines, or what order,what's the protocol? Yeah, you think, oh, it's all too difficult, I'm out.As a newbie, it is— it can. Be a bit daunting
Misbah Gulzarguest
initially. Yeah, especially when everyone else is, uh, in
Joanne Lockwoodhost
tight Lycra. And, uh, I know, I know, I get that. Yeah, yeah, that,
Misbah Gulzarguest
that's something that That's a bit unusual for me, but yeah,whoever, whatever you feel comfortable in, I guess. Yeah, butnot me. Not until I'm pregnant. Bagging them up.Well, after 5 kids, you just gotta, you gotta be, gotta be kind of seriousand, and not be disillusioned in how you look or what your, whatyour stomach looks like. So it's, it's cool. I'm good, I'm happy. But yeah,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
just, just looking back to some of your life, you know, you've You've hadsome teenage years of having toreinvent yourself, having lived in an environment where the ruleswere defined for you, going off to university and realising that, hey,I can do whatever I like now, coming back into an environment where they wantedto put you back in a straitjacket and you go, hang on a minute, no,no, I've experienced freedom. And you then worked in theprison, as you say, a couple of careers, but you worked in the criminal justicesystem. Where it's an environment where people are put intoregimented, you know, losing freedom of choice andfreedom of expression. What do you take forward from this? Youknow, what's your big thought about the whole thing? I think
Misbah Gulzarguest
for me, I've probably kind of gone fullcircle in terms of having worked in the prison system.And like you say, it's fully regulated. There's lots ofrules and everything. And I I think for mepersonally, I have had to— working within the PrisonService has been amazing, don't get me wrong, but in terms of tryingto get up the career ladder or facing kindof not necessarily discrimination, but facing barriers, that'sbeen quite difficult for me to kind of— it took me like nearly20 years to get to the point that I was at, and that wasn't myfinal point. I did want to achieve more than that. I think, you know,whilst at home I had some real difficulties,within the work environment I had difficulties.So, I can recall, you know, once I did get the rolethat I, the head of DE&I, I had to work with all the directors. Andmy first meeting, I walked in and there was just a sea of whitemale middle-class men, and I was the only person that wasn'tof that description. And I had to sit at a table, and I felt soinadequate. I felt like, what, I'm not even supposed to be here?I didn't say anything within that meeting, although I had opportunities and Ishould have. I just didn't feel that I should have a seat at that table.Obviously, I had to do some real kind of like look, lookinginto myself and understanding that you arenow at the table because you deserve to be at the table. Therefore, youhave your voice and you do need to use it now. So gradually,as the meetings progressed, I understood what my role was. It wasvery hard because I had nothing in common. You know, when we have like theconversation questions of, oh, what did you do at the weekend? And just littleconversations. There was nothing that I could relate back to with them. And I almostfound myself having to— this is a really embarrassing thing tosay— but only almost having to make things up so that I fitted in, whichI'm truly embarrassed and ashamed of now. That— whydid I need to do that? But at that point, obviously, I did need todo that just to fit in. But I think as I continuedwithin my role and, and, oh, don't know whatthat noise is. As I became morepart of the team, I understood what my role was and Ireally kind of contributed in the way that I knew that I, I should and,and I could. You've got a, a number of intersecting
Joanne Lockwoodhost
identities and I'm, you're a woman, youare of non-white descent, so your ethnicity,you've got your, your religion, your faith. Faith, you've got your singleparenthood, your children, you've got your fitness because you know, nowinto the gym. Do those all layer on top of each other, or do youthink one of those is, is a more of a challengetoday than it should be? You know, being a single parent, it's not easy onits own, is it? So everything that you've described does
Misbah Gulzarguest
make part of who I am, and really, I I'm one of those people thatI you don't, know, some people like, they see somebody and the first thing theylook at is the ethnicity Yes, that is part of me, but that is notall of me. And I think, you know, having to, like, being a woman,being somebody from the Muslim faith, being a single parent, having mixed-racechildren is a huge kind of thing and sometimesdifficult to navigate. But I think that just kind of overthe years, it's been hard, but I think over the years I've been ableto understand each part of that intersectionality ofme and try and combine it and put it together in the best way thatI can. I don't want to be just a woman. I don't want to bejust a Muslim. I don't want to be just, you know, a female.All of those aspects kind of are really, really important, but whenyou combine them together, that's what makes it amazing, ifthat makes sense. So it's not one individual thing. It's when you put them all
Misbah Gulzarguest
together that creates the person that I am today, the strengththat I have, and the outlook that I've got on life. I could quite easilyand I could have done in the past, given up at differentstages and thought, no, I can't deal with this anymore. I need to go backhome where there's that comfort, where I'm gonna get the, the support, thefinancial support. I can just go back home and just knock on the door andthey'll, they'll have me back. They'll have me back. But I didn'tchoose to go down that road because that would be giving up and that wouldbe giving up everything that I'd worked for. So that would not be a, a,a wise thing to do. So I've I think, you know, theyears, the things that I've experienced from like homelessness,from other things that a lot of people have actuallyexperienced, and, you know, my children being taken to court and mehaving to kind of fight for them, having no representation,me going in and asking the judge and all of that, being, you know,kind of faced with all of that has been really, really difficult. But actually,looking back, I don't think I would change anything, Joanne. I don't think I would.I would still make that same decision if you were, if I, if you, ifwe rewind back to 20, 30 years ago, would I still decide to leave my,my, you know, home and, and stuff? Yes, I absolutely would. For what I'vegot today, for what I've got today, the fact that I am a— Ican do what I want when I want. I've got no one questioning anything. I'mindependent. I don't rely on anybody. I am respectful. Iam all of those things. And I have got freedom of thought, whichwas the main reason that I wanted to leave that environment,because I didn't have freedom of thought. I didn't have freedom of identity. Identity,and those two things were really, really difficult for me to accept.And I, if I had, I stayed in that environment, Iwould definitely not have been the confident, vivacious,gregarious, whatever kind of descriptive, you know what, you know, I would not havebeen any of those. So yeah, I think it's really, it's, it's been a,it's been a challenge. There's been lots of ups and downs. It's not been easy,but I I definitely wouldn't change anything. I'd still dowhat I'd done to get to this point where I am here and now. Andobviously the point that I'm in here and now, again, is something thatis a situation I've never been in. So I'm currently, you know, I'm faced withredundancy. I'm looking for employment. I'm trying to set up my own business. I'm doingall of these things, but this is a different chapter of my life now whereI've just got to push through. I've just got to do the best I can.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Something you're saying there, and I think it resonates with me. If you like whoyou are today and you love your children, you love everything about what you've got,then you can't wish away something of your past because thatpast hadn't have occurred, you wouldn't be who you are today. You wouldn't have yourchildren. And I look back at some of the mistakes I made. If Ierased that mistake, I wouldn't have got married. If I hadn't got married, I wouldn'thave my children. If I hadn't got my children, I wouldn't be— every decision youmake, you're the product of that growth and that learning. So you can't look backin regrets. You can't, you know, to quote Oasis, you can't look back in anger.You can't look back at anything like this. What you've got to say is, Ilike me today. I like what I have. I like what I've achieved. And that'sall been learning. I can affect tomorrow and let me make better decisionstomorrow. And you're still working on being the best version of
Misbah Gulzarguest
you, which you've got, that's an ongoing thing. That doesn't justhappen and then that's it, you step away and I'm perfect. No, that is acontinuous thing. But having the option to be able to do thatis, is huge. So, you know, No one makes any decisions for me. No onekind of tells you what I need to do, which is sometimes not necessarily agood thing because you want to share things with other people. But in the sameway, you've got that total freedom to, you know, be the best thatyou can and, and not be, you know, blaming anyone else for anything becauseultimately you've made those decisions and, and you've made that choice. So
Joanne Lockwoodhost
yeah, and that, that is powerful. You live and standby your own means, and you can look back and look, look atyourself in the mirror and just be very proud of that. And to be
Misbah Gulzarguest
honest, Joanna, I am, I am proud of that. I am proud of the factthat I've experienced what I've experienced and I've come through the other end, and I'mproud of what I've achieved. I'm proud of the fact that I've bought myown house. I did all of that on my own, whereas, you know, mysiblings had support, and that's absolutely fine. But I'm happy with theway that I've tackled life, and I'm happy with the achievements. I've still got somuch more to do. I'm not anywhere near where I want to be, but I'mon that path, and, and I'll continue to do the right thing, and I'll continueto, to be the best version of me. I've been love chatting to you for
Joanne Lockwoodhost
the last hour or so. How can people get a hold of you? Okay, so
Misbah Gulzarguest
I do— I am on LinkedIn, um, and I do postquite regularly. So if you want to kind of catch up on iton any of my posts there, and I can leave you my LinkedIn details after.Yeah, so that's primarily where you can kind of get a hold of me.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So, Misbah, M-I-S-B-A-H, or Miss, M-I-Z-Z, to yourfriends? And no, I, when I used to be a Mizz, but then I thought,
Misbah Gulzarguest
why am I shortening my name? You know, the, the whole fitting inthing. So now it's my full name or nothing at all. So yeah, so it'sMisbah . Yeah. But
Joanne Lockwoodhost
yeah, Misbah is your name. Yes. No more, no more short, no moreabbreviated. Not at all. It's not hard to say. It's not, I know it's not
Misbah Gulzarguest
your, you know, common name and everything, but you know, it's quiteeasy to pronounce. So yeah, we'll, we'll stay with that. But it's your name,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
that's the important thing, nobody else's. And I think that's fantastic. So thank youso much. I appreciate you joining us today and I've really enjoyed our conversation.
Misbah Gulzarguest
Likewise. Thank you so much, Joanne. Thank you. Bye.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to expressmy deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lendingyour ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing toInclusion Bites and become part of our ever-growing communitydriving real change. Share this journey with friends, family, andcolleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter.Got thoughts, stories, or a vision to share? I'm allears. Reach out to [email protected].And let's. Make your voice heard. Until next time, this
Joanne Lockwoodhost
is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return withmore enriching narratives that challenge, inspire, andunite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world, oneepisode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.
The Power of Resilience and Personal IdentityIntersectionality and Barriers in the WorkplaceRehabilitation, Inclusion, and Societal Change in the Criminal Justice System
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood explores the theme of resilience and identity with guest Misbah Gulzar. Against the backdrop of cultural expectations and the evolution of societal norms, Misbah shares her journey from a strict South Asian Muslim upbringing to forging her own path, both personally and professionally. Their conversation dives into the complex realities of arranged marriage, family expectations, and the arduous process of self-validation, with Joanne drawing parallels to her own experiences of seeking affirmation and acceptance. Together, they reflect on the transformation of tradition, the meaning of belonging, and the courage it takes to step beyond prescribed boundaries.
Misbah is a resilience-driven inclusion advocate whose career spans nearly twenty years in the criminal justice system. Drawing deeply on her own lived experience, she has navigated significant personal and societal hurdles: leaving a traditional family environment, rejecting an arranged marriage, and building a new life as a single parent of five. Misbah is passionate about nurturing psychologically safe, inclusive workplaces, and brings a unique perspective as both a woman of faith and an ethnic minority in senior leadership. Her professional insights into rehabilitation and resettlement within prisons are underpinned by her belief in potential, empathy, and the importance of role models in systems often devoid of representation. Misbah’s advocacy is animated by her commitment to authenticity and her drive to ensure her children inherit the freedom she fought to secure.
Throughout the episode, Joanne and Misbah examine the intersection of culture, gender, and societal systems—from the difficult decision to leave home and the weight of community judgement, to the challenges faced by those re-entering society after imprisonment. They highlight the power of self-determination, the need for honest reflection on cultural versus religious practices, and the critical role of resilience in the face of adversity, both at home and in the workplace.
“I did decide that actually I couldn't get— I didn't want an arranged marriage. I wasn't the type of person that could probably sustain that relationship, and that was partly due to having to, you know, have these like multiple identities, you know, trying to be somebody at home and then when you're out of home trying to be somebody else.”
“However, I think if I hadn't have made that decision, then I wouldn't be sitting here today with you, and I wouldn't have the amazing life and progress that I've made and all the achievements that I've made. That, that wouldn't be anything at all. It would be a completely different person sitting, sitting here right now.”
“I was prepared to take the risk of leaving that comfortableness and making it out on my own and just taking whatever came in my way and dealing with it.”
“I'm going to lose completely all of my identity, even though my, the identity that I've got is, is confused anyway because I'm trying to be two people at the same time and it's, it's confusing.”
“Lots of things that were associated with, well, this is a religious thing and that's why we're doing it. It wasn't a religious thing, it was a cultural thing.”
“So you've been inside for 10 years, maybe, maybe a little bit longer than that. You've served your sentence, you're now due to released, how do we support that individual? So from when they went in to when they come out, society's changed completely.”
“And my first meeting, I walked in and there was just a sea of white male middle-class men, and I was the only person that wasn't of that description.”
“All of those aspects kind of are really, really important, but when you combine them together, that's what makes it amazing, if that makes sense. So it's not one individual thing.”
The challenges and consequences of rejecting arranged marriage in traditional South Asian culture, and the effect on family dynamics.
The profound distinction between cultural norms and religious values, and how clarity in this area supports personal identity formation.
Strategies for overcoming the need for external validation and cultivating self-worth.
Building a new family culture grounded in openness, autonomy, and genuine belonging, regardless of faith or heritage.
Insights into the obstacles faced by ethnic minorities and women in senior leadership within the criminal justice system.
The critical importance of rehabilitation and resettlement support for individuals transitioning out of prison, including ongoing wraparound services.
Actionable approaches to self-care and wellbeing, such as re-engaging with fitness routines, especially during career transitions or personal challenges.
One thing to remember
The episode "Resilience Beyond Barriers" explores the transformative power of resilience in challenging social, cultural, and institutional obstacles, illustrating how self-validation, cultural awareness, and personal courage can foster genuine inclusion and growth both personally and in society. Through Misbah Gulzar's lived experience and reflections, listeners are encouraged to embrace their own intersecting identities, advocate for psychological safety, and drive change—even when facing adversity.
Questions this episode helps answer
How does Misbah Gulzar’s experience of navigating both cultural and familial expectations influence her definition of resilience?
In what ways does the distinction between culture and religion shape Misbah Gulzar’s personal journey and worldview?
How does the stigma and shame associated with stepping away from traditional expectations impact family dynamics in South Asian communities, as discussed by Misbah Gulzar?
What are the main challenges faced by individuals leaving institutional environments (such as prisons or the armed forces), and how can society better support their reintegration?
How do intersecting identities—such as gender, ethnicity, religion, and single parenthood—affect one’s journey towards inclusion and belonging, according to Misbah Gulzar?
What role does validation, both from families and self, play in shaping a person’s confidence and sense of achievement, as evidenced by Misbah Gulzar and Joanne Lockwood?
Explore topics
Ideas from this episode
The Power of Resilience and Personal Identity
Misbah Gulzar traversed the fascinating landscape of resilience, particularly as it intersects with personal identity and cultural upbringing. Misbah candidly described her journey growing up in a strict South Asian Muslim household, and the challenges of navigating expectations around arranged marriage and societal norms.
Intersectionality and Barriers in the Workplace
Delving deeper into the nuances of diversity and inclusion, the conversation explored intersectionality—Misbah’s experience as a woman of ethnic minority, a single parent, and a member of the Muslim faith within the criminal justice system. Moving up the ranks in a predominantly white, male-dominated environment, she highlighted the psychological barriers and the silent challenge of ‘fitting in’, even as head of Diversity, Equality & Inclusion.
Rehabilitation, Inclusion, and Societal Change in the Criminal Justice System
The conversation shifted towards broader societal themes, particularly the role of rehabilitation and inclusion within the criminal justice system. Misbah recounted her extensive career supporting individuals in Category B prisons and Immigration Removal Centres, challenging preconceptions about crime and rehabilitation.
Learn
Frequently asked questions
What is the primary theme of this episode?
The central theme is resilience amidst cultural, familial, and professional barriers, particularly within the context of inclusion and belonging. The episode spotlights how individual lived experiences shape advocacy for psychologically safe and inclusive workplaces.
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Who is the guest and what is her background?
The guest, Misbah Gulzar, is a resilience-driven inclusion advocate with nearly 20 years’ experience in the criminal justice system. She draws upon her South Asian Muslim background and personal journey escaping cultural limitations—particularly those around arranged marriages—to champion inclusion.
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How did Misbah Gulzar's upbringing influence her approach to resilience and inclusion?
Growing up in a strict South Asian Muslim household, Misbah Gulzar was the only sibling to attend university. She faced decisive crossroads regarding arranged marriage, ultimately choosing the path of independence despite familial and cultural repercussions. This experience profoundly shaped her resilience and advocacy for psychological safety and inclusion.
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What are Misbah Gulzar’s views on arranged marriages?
She is not opposed to arranged marriages, provided both parties consent and there is no coercion. Her own situation, however, did not accommodate personal choice or compatibility, prompting her to leave a comfortable family environment and navigate life independently.
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How did leaving her family affect Misbah Gulzar and her broader community?
Her decision brought considerable stigma and shame upon her family, as was customary in her community at the time. Yet, her choice marked a turning point that positively impacted subsequent generations, allowing her nieces and nephews greater freedom in choosing partners.
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What was Misbah Gulzar's experience in the criminal justice system?
Initially entering prison service as a stopgap, Misbah Gulzar worked closely with inmates, primarily in Cat B prisons and immigration removal centres. She focused on equality and diversity, attempting to understand the backgrounds and potential of those incarcerated, while realising the critical importance of rehabilitation and acknowledging systemic barriers.
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