Brave Learning, Bold Leadership

Joanne Lockwood is joined by learning innovator Pippa O’Brien, founder of Poda, to explore what “brave learning” looks like in practice and how it enables bolder, more inclusive leadership. Together they unpack why traditional, slide-led training often fails to land, and how immersive drama and facilitated conversation can create the conditions for deeper reflection, behaviour change, and practical allyship.

Pippa shares how she designs learning for frontline and manual-worker audiences, including teams with lower literacy levels, by meeting people where they are and building sessions around observation, discussion, and participation. They discuss how psychologically safe environments allow people to voice honest opinions, be challenged appropriately, and learn without fear of humiliation. The conversation also looks at “banter” in workplace culture, including practical approaches like agreed safe words to stop conversations that have crossed a line.

Alongside the learning design, the episode widens into leadership and culture: trust, integrity, and values being lived rather than stated; the impact of dismissing ideas on innovation; and what flexible work requires from managers. Pippa also shares her own career journey from a male-dominated kitchen into learning and development, how imposter feelings shaped her confidence, and the pivotal role of a leader who coached and backed her potential.

The episode leaves listeners with a clear message: inclusive innovation depends on leaders and teams creating safe spaces for honest dialogue, listening for what’s under the surface, and turning good intentions into everyday behaviours.