---
title: "Me, My Hormones and I"
episode: 26
date: 2021-02-01
guest: "Lauren Chiren"
canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/26-me-my-hormones-and-i
audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-026/audio.mp3
---

# Me, My Hormones and I

Lauren Chiren joins Joanne Lockwood to talk candidly about how early menopause showed up in her working life long before she had language for it. After a difficult meeting with her boss, Lauren reflects on months of exhaustion, anxiety, palpitations, memory problems and collapsing self-esteem, initially fearing early-onset dementia. A GP later helped her recognise that she was experiencing early menopause, prompting her to ensure other people don’t lose their health or careers through a lack of understanding of this natural life stage. The conversation explores what perimenopause and menopause mean, the breadth of potential symptoms, and why many people don’t recognise what’s happening—especially when contraception masks cycle changes. Lauren and Joanne discuss stigma and silence around periods and menopause, the ripple effects on relationships and work, and practical ways employers and colleagues can become more informed and supportive. They also touch on hormone replacement therapy (HRT), the importance of good medical conversations and trusted resources, and how building community and education—through workplace programmes and peer support—can help people navigate menopause with more confidence and less isolation. The episode includes explicit discussion of trans identity and how inclusive language and workplace practices should recognise that not everyone who experiences periods or menopause identifies as a woman.

## Chapters

- 01:26 — Boss criticized me, turns focus to menopause.
- 08:55 — Discovering traditional gender roles and seeking change.
- 11:51 — Being a sole parent with a sick child made me hesitant to take time off work, but I regret that choice now.
- 19:57 — Uncommon behaviors may indicate menopause symptoms.
- 22:54 — Hope more countries provide free sanitary products. Engage with female life cycle, support employees. Increasing openness, positive shift in attitudes. Some businesses still need to adapt.
- 31:34 — Friend's overseas life changed due to divorce.
- 34:24 — Iceland experience: amazing culture, unique food.
- 40:05 — HRT important for overall wellbeing and health.
- 49:01 — Removing testosterone, increasing estrogen, and feeling unified.
- 50:57 — Gender neutral toilets, pronoun awareness, menstrual education. Awakening and inclusion. Relief and learning from audience. Marriage saved. Importance of menopause discussion.
- 57:12 — Perimenopause is a stage before menopause.

## Key takeaways

- The profound effect of menopause on intimate relationships, highlighting a real-life couple's journey through perimenopause and reconciliation.
- The importance of recognising and addressing menopause as a societal issue, not just a women's issue.
- The role of coaching, counselling, and medical intervention in overcoming menopause-related challenges.
- Effective ways to open up conversations about menopause and similar "unseen" issues in the workplace to cultivate an inclusive culture.
- The relationship between hormone replacement therapy (HRT) and overall well-being, including common misconceptions and updated medical insights.
- The necessity for organisations to be proactive and supportive regarding women's health issues to foster a tolerant and understanding work environment.
- The broader implications of hormone changes, including the lesser-known impact of testosterone levels on women's health and confidence.

## FAQs

### What is menopause?

Menopause is a natural biological process that marks the end of a woman's reproductive years. It typically occurs between the ages of 45 and 55 and is characterized by the cessation of menstruation and a decrease in hormone production.

### How does menopause affect women at work?

Menopause can have a significant impact on women's physical, emotional, and cognitive well-being, which can in turn affect their performance at work. Symptoms such as hot flashes, mood swings, fatigue, and memory issues can be challenging to manage in a professional environment.

### How does menopause awareness in the workplace help?

Creating menopause-aware workplaces helps to foster a more inclusive and supportive environment for women going through this transition. It enables open conversations, understanding, and the implementation of necessary policies and support systems to accommodate the needs of menopausal employees.

### What can organizations do to support menopausal employees?

Organizations can support menopausal employees by providing access to information, resources, and support networks. They can also implement policies that allow for flexible working arrangements, temperature control in the workplace, and access to appropriate healthcare services.

### Should menopause-related issues be openly discussed at work?

Open discussions about menopause-related issues can help reduce stigma and raise awareness among colleagues, managers, and leaders. This can create a more inclusive and understanding work environment where women feel supported and valued.

### Are there medical treatments available for menopause symptoms?

Yes, there are medical treatments available, including Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), which replaces the hormones that decline during menopause. It is important to consult with healthcare professionals to determine the most suitable approach based on individual medical history and preferences.

## Transcript

Joanne Lockwood: Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood, and I am your host for the Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I will be interviewing a number of amazing people as simply having a conversation about the subject of inclusion, belonging, and generally making the world a better place for everyone to thrive. If you'd like to join me in the future, then please do drop me a line to jo.lockwood@seachangehappen.co.uk. Lockwood S-E-E Change Happen dot co dot uk. You'll be able to catch up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify, and the usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab a decaf, and let's get going. Today is episode 26. With the title "Me, My Hormones, and I", and I have the absolute honor and privilege to be joined by Lauren Chiren. Lauren describes herself as an executive coach and menopause at work specialists. When I asked Lauren to describe her superpower, she said, tenacity, getting shit done, especially those things that others barely talk about. Hello, Lauren. Hi, Jo.

Lauren Chiren: How are you? I'm good. Thank you. And yourself? Yeah. No. Really well. Really well. Thank you. It's really catch up.

Joanne Lockwood: Fantastic. So, Lauren, "Me, My Hormones, and I", what's that about? Tell us How? That's,

Lauren Chiren: that's really interesting. Well, to me, it was quite interesting. I would like to take you back in 5th November 2014. I was called into meeting with my boss, which in itself was quite unusual because normally we caught up in between meetings on the way in and out of work. And I was also quite excited because it was my birthday. So I thought he had something in the store for me. However, I wasn't prepared for this surprise that he did deliver when I went into his office. The conversation, which I shall abbreviate for, you went along the lines of You're walking around those places if you've got the weight of the world on your shoulders. It's not exactly becoming of a female leader in this organization. And you were happier when you did that personal trainer thing you used to do. So perhaps you ought to have a think about that. Well, let me tell you whatever self esteem or self confidence I had before that meeting was down in a dark, dark place for the time of stepped out. And I knew I had to go and get some space between myself and the office, and I worked for home, from home for a little while. I took my son a holiday for a few days. And during that holiday, I laughed, joked, sang, built snow castles, and Iglooze, had an absolute bowl with my eight year old were in Iceland and slept like a log every night on the last night of the holiday as he fell asleep. I sat bought upright in my bed and burst into tears. It suddenly dawned on me what my boss was trying to tell me. He was basically saying that I was a shadow of my former self, that I wasn't behaving in a way that he was used to. And when I looked back, I realized I hadn't slept for 18 months I was exhausted. I was kind of wired and tired at the same time all day, every day. I was working longer and harder. I was training really hard for a marathon. I was doing a full time job with teams in America, India, and the UK. I delivered regulatory change projects for financial services, and I thrived in my work. But I was finding I'd be sitting in a meeting and you know, planning planning's fundamentals is what I do. Right? But at setting a meeting, I choose 15 different sentences to describe the work plan because I couldn't get it out of my head. And my memory was shot. I couldn't recall names. I couldn't remember which meeting I had to be in and when. I had self esteem issues, I had palpitations, anxiety attacks, all sorts of things, and I just thought I had completely lost it. So ultimately, I left my job thinking of the early onset dementia in my early forties. So you can imagine my surprise when my GP told me I had just been through an early menopause. I was basically the happiest menopausal woman in Bristol. And literally in that moment, and knew what I had to do. And that was to make sure another employer lost their talent because of lack of understanding of a natural life stage Another woman could blindly walk into perimenopause and menopause without knowing what was going on. So that's kind of where it all started for me, Joe. Wow. That's a a

Joanne Lockwood: story. I mean, this company you're working for 6 years ago wasn't a small company. There's a big multinational organization, wasn't it was a large organization. And I think

Lauren Chiren: back then, organizations were not menopause savvy, we're not menopause aware. It wasn't something that was on the agenda. So I don't, you know, it's not there's nothing about size of organization, or I think it's just we're we're living in very fast moving and changing times. And it's been great to, you know, have on my books, brilliant organizations now that are looking to make significant change and are really waking up the fact that there are more women in work now than ever before. We're working longer and later in our lives and holding more senior roles So we really need to change the landscape that we work in.

Joanne Lockwood: So you you you're looking back here. You're not casting any blame. It was just contextually at that time 6 years ago, that was the way of the world. People didn't talk about it. It wasn't Wellbeing treated less fairly. Just they they were quite vital in their observations that you weren't the person you used to be. Absolutely. I

Lauren Chiren: think it was quite interesting that someone who's supposedly leading other people, bright, intelligent, etcetera, capable. I'd had an award, and my bonus the week before. So all the signals were but things were going well. So that conversation really was like a blow out of the blue for me, but it was odd you know, to to not know what you're going through and just to put that into context, I was on I had my son just before his 38 and I was on the concept of pill that meant I didn't have a monthly cycle. So I had no idea that my, my period had stopped. So I didn't know what to look out for I hadn't had the conversation with my mom. I didn't have anyone else around me, you know, late diarities, early forties going through perry or menopause. I didn't even know what perry menopause was. So, you know, as an employee, you've got responsibility to look out for yourself and be on top form doing everything that you can to make sure that you're fit for work. And I believe an employer has got a responsibility to create the culture and the environment that is entirely inclusive and that you can bring as much of yourself to workers as appropriate. So, yeah. For sure. I completely agree.

Joanne Lockwood: And and the last 6 years, the world of work has come a long way in rate, doesn't it? It's we won the clock back that far, then many employers hadn't even thought about this Wellbeing inclusive, you know, inclusion Wellbeing, diversity wasn't really on the top of most agendas. It was business as usual, get stuff done, and being nice to people wasn't really on the agendas, really. No. I think I've, I've been very, I mean, I want

Lauren Chiren: career number 4, and I've been very fortunate to always do work that I've loved. However, I never had any challenges with monthly cycles. I never had any challenges when I wanted to get pregnant, getting pregnant. I did have a tricky pregnancy because I was offered termination at 6 months, and that meant that there was a lot of stress around the continuation. And just for context, my son is now 14 and a big strapping lab will always go underline medical conditions. You know, the, the children's home Bristol is our safe place. And that, that, that's been amazing. However, even when I was working, if he was critically ill and I was by bedside and the hospital. I sold my laptop on doing my meetings. I never took my foot off the pedal. I didn't think because I was a mom and my son was ill. Now was that the business creating that culture? Was that me putting my the pressure myself? You know, that that's a debate that I think we could probably spend hours on. However, the, the whole menopause thing coming along just knocked me sideways. I nearly passed out twice in the office. It was bizarre, really bizarre. So you said that you you so

Joanne Lockwood: you're putting pressure on yourself to work with these hours to deliver the projects and be a full time mom and all the other things that went went around being you. You you said you're not you're not sure whether that was you putting extra pressure or that was kind of Were you in this kind of working like a man type environment where you, you know, want to feel like you were succeeding and keeping up, you felt, or you had to be that person, or was it a personal thing? So that was a really interesting expression, right, because

Lauren Chiren: working like a man, I've never ever had that phrase go through my head in my life. I started going out to work with my dad when I was 4. He had properties. We go around and empty the telephone boxes of the two p's and the pennies. He clicked the rent and would spend a Sunday, you know, counting out and he had another company doing contract cleaning. So I would help him as staff wages on a Sunday, and I've always just worked It's just some, it was a fun thing I did with my dad. I never considered it to be something masculine. And interestingly, the sports I've done like judo or and football, a lot of what I've done have always moved in a very male dominated environment. So I've never never questioned it. And the same with the jobs I've done, they've always been traditionally very male. And because I was very fortunate not to have any situations arise up until my early forties where I saw the difference myself. I never questioned it. But it was only in hindsight, which is always great, right, where I suddenly went, ah, it was only because of my hormones. That my behavior changed, but because I wasn't aware of it, I couldn't manage it, and I couldn't take control and make sure that I went on that journey with my eyes wide open and helped get the right help and support from the people around me to continue doing that. I didn't stop being bright, intelligent, or capable. Oh, it felt like I had, but my, I didn't lose those skills knowledge and experience, right? So it was just about how do you change that masculine environment that women tended to step into around about the 2nd World War when we started really entering the workforce on mass, How do you change that which we've stepped into and kind of worn the mask or molded ourselves into what there rather than trying to change it, which is what I think we're doing now. Because it's interesting also when he

Joanne Lockwood: was talking at the beginning, he said your your managers said to you, not becoming of a female leader in our organization. So a female leader in organization, why not just a leader in our organization? So was that almost the fact that your, your manager was seeing you as a woman rather than just as a leader? Yeah. I'm

Lauren Chiren: I'm not sure, you know, the memory plays tricks with you, right? So I wonder if the more conscious I'm becoming of the differences of being a female, is my recollection or whether it was just the fact that there was a passing comment about being a leader in the organization. So I don't know if I would want to Wellbeing that too much. Okay. But you're now more hyper aware of

Joanne Lockwood: your own sense of self and reflected back on that time. And and almost like analyzing some of your behavior with hindsight and wondering whether these things came into play.

Lauren Chiren: Yeah. And I think I think specifically because I was a sole parent with a child with medical needs. I think that also made me think twice about ever considering taking time off or, you know, if I wanted to go and watch something at school or if my son was poorly, how did I make sure that I was, a, there for work and be there for him, which on reflection I'm afraid I don't agree with. However, that was my choice at the time, but I would too afraid or to I had too fixed a mask on to consider it ever turning around and saying, I need to take some time out because my son's ill. Or I need to take some time out because my son's going to be in an event. And it just never crossed my mind, but that was something I could do. I didn't know how to ask for help and support. I didn't want to be seen as weak because I didn't want to give anyone any ammunition. And these are all things in hindsight I realized was because I was trying to fit into an environment that was not necessarily set up for someone dealing with the things I was having to deal with You know, this is way before menopause came along, but ultimately, it's all part and parcel of the same thing. So

Joanne Lockwood: you mentioned people that understand between menopause and perimenopause. I'm not sure I did. What was what's where's the difference? I mean, I yeah. Tell me. Sure. Of course. So it's interesting

Lauren Chiren: because quite often women will get in touch and say, oh, I'm pretty mad I'm premenopausal. I can't cope. I'm going to your Perimenopause. You can't cope. So not my bag. Premenopausal is when you become an adolescent, your monthly cycle starts. And, you just, you just have whatever is you're a normal. Whatever that is for you is when you're Perimenopause. When your monthly cycle starts to change a little bit might become heavier lighter might be longer or shorter in between blades And you may start experiencing symptoms like brain fog, anxiety, sleeplessness, achy joints, so on. That's when you're entering perimenopause. It's when your, your Eastern levels are starting to kind of fluctuate. Your progesterone levels are, declining. And when you become menopausal, you've gone 12 months without a cycle. And thereafter, literally menopausal is like a 12 month anniversary of your monthly cycle and then your postmenopausal. Does that help? Okay.

Joanne Lockwood: Okay. So that that that that's the 12 months window, and you you've no idea during that 12 months if it's gonna reset in 2 months' time. So -- Correct. Yeah. So you could be exhibiting these intermittent, periods And that's where your Perimenopause, where you'll go into those last couple of years of of your periods and cycle. And then you say one day you wake up and go, oh, 5th December, that's it. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're now post intervals at Yay. So you have menopause day is really was one day in your life. That's exactly right.

Lauren Chiren: Yes. But I think because we don't want to go around going perry to post menopause or journey, just go menopause. And that means everything from parried through to post. It's it's it's it's the big big

Joanne Lockwood: umbrella term that everyone kinda understands. Yep. Yeah.

Lauren Chiren: That's right. I I I seen that there are there are many

Joanne Lockwood: women going through a similar pattern where you went through where you're using contraception, wrist masks, periods where you're taking them every day of the month, So there are many women out there that probably not aware. And also, I suppose the most contraceptive pills give you Oestrogen and probably progesterone progesterone at a similar level to what you're naturally assuming. So you probably don't notice them as turning off there. No. If you're if you're on, certainly, certain

Lauren Chiren: types of contraception, you you're not going to know. There's just no way to know unless you came off the contraception. So you really go by your symptoms. And, if you are in your early to mid forties up to your mid fifties and you're starting to experiencing, your anxiety, brain fog, sleeplessness, palpitations, itchy skin, hair loss, hair growth, tweezers can become a girl's best friend. And all these kind of other low moods, night sweats, if you started to spread, you know, experience these symptoms, then that's your guide, really, especially if you're over forty 5, then that, that is just like going through adolescence. When you go through adolescence, you may experience mood swings, slamming doors, different changing sleep patterns, all sorts of different things. It's just we don't expect that in women of a certain stage. So -- So

Joanne Lockwood: you must assume that women have kind of got their their life together, but they should be just flat, normal, whereas they're almost going back to those early hormonal years where they're their emotions are, yeah, going up and down, but considerably, I suppose. It's one of the most common

Lauren Chiren: issues that women tell me about when I'm working with them that you, they, they, they've had this kind of cycle of behavior at work. They know when they're more analytical or creative through their monthly cycle, where they're more reflective or determined. And then all of a sudden, Perimenopause comes along, and the moods can be, you know, they can be quite severe. And in from one moment to the next, you can go from being happy as Larry to being in fits of tears for no apparent reason, and things will trigger you in a way that you just aren't used to. And then all of a sudden you could be raging at somebody. Now this isn't for all women clearly, but it is not uncommon behavior for someone going through menopause.

Joanne Lockwood: Since you mentioned one of your symptoms was memory loss as well, well, or just forgetfulness or And I I've come across, people in my life where that's been a factor and that just assumed that it was just, as you say, on the early onset dementia, a senior moment, people would call it, but maybe never associating with with the fact it could have been some perimenopause causing this. Mhmm. And what sort of ages with people that you've noticed

Lauren Chiren: that in the I would say late forties, fifties, yeah, kind of that

Joanne Lockwood: kind of age. Yeah. But people just talk about it and say, oh, god. I just it was like, it's not a tip by tongue, but I just they just couldn't get it out, or or, or you have a conversation and they say, I don't understand that. And it's like, you just said that. No, I didn't. So maybe it isn't Maybe it is kinda like that. Yeah. Exactly. And I had

Lauren Chiren: a classic one time, to work the arrows I was working in the type of position I was I had to have support with my son, so I had an Annie. And one night I came home, I drove back 4 to 5 minute journey from work to the house. Dropped my suit, my suitcase off, my briefcase off, said hi to my son, walked back my nanny, picked up my briefcase, and said, I'll see you later, and she goes, where are you going? As I'm going to work. Week, you've just been called pork. I mean, it's the weirdest thing. It's the weirdest thing. So so you could also manifest itself where someone's

Joanne Lockwood: maybe, an administrator and they're doing a routine process. And they keep missing bits of the process, or they they just don't retain some of the process and go, would you mean I thought I'd done that that that could be part of that as Wellbeing exactly that.

Lauren Chiren: So people may experience those kind of small errors in their work, specifically if they're doing detailed work. And that's why it's so important for employers to become educated and for women to really understand what they're going through so that they can start to put their own processes in place so that they can have checklists so they can set timers so they can record meetings so they can take more frequent breaks so they can do the relaxation exercises. Because it's important as an employee that you take responsibility for yourself and definitely you can to thrive, as well as the employer, obviously, making the cultural changes, environmental changes that are needed. So

Joanne Lockwood: you weren't really self aware of what was going on, and I'm I'm guessing that other people maybe listen to this and experiencing this probably aren't self aware either. It's it's only when people maybe mention it to them that they go, oh, maybe you're right. I suppose if you're forgetful, you don't realize you're being forgetful. Not until you kind of put car keys in the fridge and the

Lauren Chiren: milk in the I don't know a washing machine or something like that, which as audits that might sound, is not that uncommon. But I think I think quite often people, you know, especially in the workplace, people will notice your behavior changing before you're conscious of it. And it's about learning how to identify that, how to open a sense of conversation with somebody, how to sign posts into the right health. Support in a supportive caring way without them feeling threatened. And I often find when I'm speaking to women, like, oh, I didn't know that was part of menopause because there's over 30 symptoms, and no two woman experiences it in the same way. So it's it it fascinates me and I shouldn't because I was there only 6 years ago, but it fascinates me that women don't know what menopause is. They don't know how many symptoms there are. They're not prepared for it, and they don't know where to get help and support. So yeah, I'm really grateful to you for helping me open up the conversation that little bit further. Yeah.

Joanne Lockwood: Is it My understanding is there's still a lot of kind of shame and stigma around losing one's fertility and did at this point in life, maybe the feeling of loss, whilst someone may not ever want to have another child, but the fact they now can't -- Mhmm. -- is quite a big loss, isn't it? I've had a few

Lauren Chiren: clients mention that to me, and we do I do a lot of work and mindset with my clients, so it's very much looking deeper inside to them and what that fertility means to them, looking at the ages and stages of life. And actually, women of this generation experiencing menopause are going to live as long, if not longer, post menopause leave than they were in their fertile years. And we are the 1st generation to do that. And that in itself, when people get their their heads around that, and they recognize that they've got this incredible life ahead of them. So It's like the second opportunity to, to create whatever you want to be and do and have And it's, it's very much about, you know, that mindset shift in recognizing your role in life also and, and how much you've got to give back So, yeah, there, there can be that sense of loss, but, it affects everybody differently. But there's still a lot of,

Joanne Lockwood: Social etiquette where periods, cycles, sanitary products, etcetera, etcetera, aren't topics for the dinner table that they're they're they're whisper conversations, and it's not talked about. So is there any wonder that that many women don't share their stories with West Coast is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is that part of the trouble that people aren't talking about it enough? I'm delighted to say that things

Lauren Chiren: are changing. Did you see the article about Scotland? And sanitary products? Yes. I did. I did. I thought it was fantastic. Yeah. I just hope that is the beginning of something that more and more countries will will do. So free sanitary products is is one amazingly positive straightforward. And more, the more clients I work with now, the more corporate clients that I engage with, Instead of just focusing on menopause, what we do is we look at the entire female life cycle. So everything, all the changes, fertility issues, miscarriage pregnancy, you know, we're with looking at anybody who bleeds and what that's going to mean for them, the impacts are going to have for them throughout their entire employee journey rather than just focusing on one specific stage because I believe that the more we can open the conversation at work about what's going on that you can't see necessarily, the more we can create an environment that people are, more engaged with, more, tolerant of and more understanding of as well. So it, it's, I do think it's a big journey, but I am seeing people being much more open now 6 years ago. People organizations were kind of like kicking 9 to 12 months before they were to engage me to come in and deliver something on menopause awareness, whereas now I'll be It's inbound inquiries asking me to go and help them create their strategy around women at work. So there is a shift, but there's always going to businesses, and you must find this with your work as well. There's always companies that are, you know, the early adopters and those ones that will kind of lag behind a little bit more. Do you find that? Oh, for sure. It's

Joanne Lockwood: it turns on the size of the business, the sector, the culture. Some are front runners out there trying to try to their best. And there were many organizations that are just playing catch up, or or it's not even on the radar. So, yeah, you're right. It's, I think in a way that's It's just the way the way the world. I think it was gonna have outliers forward people. And I think in a way, it needs it needs to find about us to set the examples and to and to break the ground and and to show people what's possible that other people can aspire to and catch up. So I I think whilst I'm often disappointed that that all companies are focused on diversity inclusion and helping their people in this way is becoming the way organizations start to think, which is, which is, for me, I think we are making progress. Yeah. No, I am definitely

Lauren Chiren: seeing a difference. And certainly, this time this year, especially given that we're recording this, a time when COVID is still very much in our midst. I have noticed that There are more organizations asking to engage early next year to look at what their strategy is going to be and how they're going to put manipause on the table on the agenda and bring it to the attention of this new stakeholders. So I'm really, really excited about that.

Joanne Lockwood: I I think I've I've seen that as well. So I don't know whether it was COVID or black lives matter or something earlier this year created this is bound waiver of of change or enlightenment. And I I think you're right. But many DNI leads and DNI teams are starting to pull together a program of events around inclusion and identities and needs and menopause is on that list is in the same way that racial inclusion, trans, lgbt, all these kind of the big ticket items are on the list now. And I think I spoke to someone this morning, And they do they do it very similar. They want to really raise their profile. We were talking specifically around LGBT, but they're also doing a number of other events. And similar lines. So it's it's fantastic that you're, yeah, you're already seeing that in 2021 as on on the agenda. Mhmm. Mhmm. And before, March

Lauren Chiren: 20, I was doing a lot of work in the states. However, at the time I've saved by flying back and forth between states and the UK, I've been doing far more webinars and reaching out to far more organizations much bigger and more global organizations. And, you know, I've I've spoken to companies now that have got a footprint in Russia to Romania, Israel to Ireland, Australia to Australia and beyond. It's been phenomenal this year to, to really see that reach grow. So I think that's really helped. And also with the flexibility and agility and the working ways of working that people have had to do. It's opened the doors to completely new thinking about what work means and and ways of working going forward. So I I think we've touched on that a couple of times when we've spoken. Yeah. Yeah. So because you've

Joanne Lockwood: you've also got a a very active Facebook group, probably where you support network for women going through Perimenopause, menopause. Yeah. And you've had some guest speakers, and I've watched some of the, the webinars you've done, which have been really, really enlightening and, yeah, and surprising that lack of informations out there without diving and, you know, if I hadn't have met you, hadn't been on your webinars or Wellbeing a Facebook group, I would never know how for this. Oh, wow. I didn't know you could see some of

Lauren Chiren: them. You invited me into the group because --

Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I did. I did. And I I looked through them because whilst it doesn't affect me directly hormones do. So I have a so if I stop taking hormones, I will go probably through a similar sort of cold turkey experience. So I'm very hyper aware of of of what homeowners have done to me over my over the last 5 years. And the changes that I've experienced as a result, not just physically, but mentally, and the mental changes have been well, I would put it most welcome because they have introduced a a calmness and a and a way of thinking that I never had before. So I can imagine if I ended up in a situation where my hormone levels fluctuated wildly to have have that that cycle between complete complete you for it, calmness, and not would be, I said, I'm not sure I could imagine how that would Yeah. And I think,

Lauren Chiren: some delighted that you've seen the webinars, and you're right about that hormonal fluctuation. The other thing that women maybe don't recognize in themselves is that they have testosterone. So it's another, it's the, it's like the, the 3rd hormone that can drop and diminish. And that's quite often women will comment about loss of libido, loss of confidence loss of self esteem, and that can all be tied into a drop in testosterone because whilst we have much lower levels and then we still have testosterone, it's really important hormone for us. So it's something that's not licensed for use in the UK. However, it can be prescribed. So it's something for women to be aware of if they are talking to their doctor about hormone replacement therapy. But on the just going back to the comment you made about the webinars, I have in my team, I have a GPU who specializes in women's health. I have, an amazing guy who I've known for 20 years who specializes in CV confidence and coaching sorry, CV career and confidence coaching because quite often going through menopause is when women really start thinking about a change in their career. A bit of hypnotherapist, especially in stress anxiety because that's way up on people's lists with menopause. And I've got a bunch of, fitness professionals, nutritional professionals, and myself obviously as the executive coach. And it just means that people have got a one stop shop for all the types of support that they might need throughout menopause. And it's that's what's that's what's come out of working with women and working with organizations over the last 6, 7 years just to make sure that people have got the right support, the right access, the right information. And the, the the webinars that you mentioned, I do every few weeks, and they're in free, they're in the group. Anyone, you know, is welcome to assess them because for me, it's all about increasing people's awareness. If we don't share the information and people live in ignorance, then you know, that, that, that's not gonna move us forward. So I just, that's just me doing my bit, really. Are those, I mean, let's be clear to anyone's listening. These

Joanne Lockwood: aren't just for women concerned about the menopause themselves, whether they they go to repair menopause or post menopausal, this could be for women younger to try and identify educate himself a later life, but also for men who want to find out how they could support women best in the workplace. And and it's not a a taboo subject. We want men to listen to these to understand how they can help better, don't we? Whether as a husband as a husband, as a as a partner as a as a as a son or as a as a as a brother or sister, sorry, brother or father. So it's important that men educate themselves, and it's not seen as a a woman's only thing to talk about. It is is a societal challenge that we all need to embrace as is, and I think a really great

Lauren Chiren: way to bring that to life is an old friend of mine who he won't appreciate being called an old friend, but a long term friend of mine who lives overseas. When I got pregnant with my son, he moved overseas, got married, built a house, living the life of Riley with his, his new wife, and They both had ideal jobs. They had their swimming pool in the back garden. And, you know, for 10 years, I just got great reports of how wonderful everything was. And 3, maybe 4 years ago, he popped back over. He was back over in the UK, spread his mum's ashes, and he told me it was getting divorced. And I was really, really upset for him because he was leading such an incredible life. Anyway, he had to go back home to sort things out, put house in the market, put notice in at work, his wife was off long term sick. And I was helping him sort out, you know, a new network back over in Bristol in the UK, find a house to live in. So he put an offer in a house. He'd started going for job, interviews. And as I was talking to him one day, he was just talking in the most beautiful way about his wife. And I turned around and I said, look, forgive me, but confused.com over here. You're talking about your wife as if she's your best friend, as if she's, you really love her. And he goes, well, I do, and she is. I was like, I really don't understand why you're coming back to the UK. And he turned around and he said to me, we haven't been intimate for 4 years. I've tried everything, and I just can't live like that. I don't want to cheat. But I can't look at this either. And we had to cut a very long story short. We had some chats. I realized that his wife was parimenopausal and really struggling. She had really severe symptoms like I had, but perhaps even more so. And with a little bit of coaching, a little bit of counseling, and some interventions, some medical intervention as well, they stayed together. However, There were 2 employers in their home country that had one employee that had left work, male, one that was a long term sick female, an employer over in the UK that thought they had a new male employee coming over that wasn't, solicitors for the house sealant, the house selling, and the house buying on both sides, solicitors for the divorce, all because a couple were not menopause savvy and didn't understand how to communicate with each other and where to go and get help and support. So it's not a women's only issue. This affects employers, even when they don't see that the person being impacted is being directly impacted by menopause. So for me, that story is a really good one to demonstrate how far reaching menopause is and the effects are because the more we recognize it, the more we understand it, can put the right help in support in place, and just so get over there and I just --

Joanne Lockwood: So so you're telling me earlier that you you went to Iceland. Oh, I I I mean, that's amazing. I was in Iceland in 9899, so that was what 20 years ago. And I loved it over there. We we did the, the locals tour because we actually were there as part of a club, and we we were being hosted by some Icelanders, and we we enjoyed a lot of their their their spirit. So it wasn't like a tourist. You know, we we we won't be on a bus with it. We didn't just see the the, yeah, the big ticket items, the glasses, and the and the geyser things. We actually sort of live with them, and we were experiencing some of their culture, which is incredible, but, no, I loved it. It's a it's a really great place, and I I really wanna go back there. But one thing that sticks my one 66 in my mind was they hired this fish controller. And in the middle of the, you know, this was in May. So it's kinda still pretty dark and pretty cold and horrible out there. And they they said the same as just enjoying it, and it literally threw the net over the back, trawed up I think stuff off the bottom, and there was irchins. There was, clamps and some of this. And they were literally just opening up these irchins, and we were eating them off the knife. Wow. And scallops and the clowns things were just literally easing them off off the knife as they were bringing them up from the from the floor. And then we had this massive buffet. One of the delicacies on there was puffing. I don't know how many puffins gave up their life for this buffet, but there was there was, like, trays and trays of puffing and Yeah. It was a incredible experience, and and the way they prepare Lam, it's more like we were prepared to take. It was that the way the server is actually beautiful. So yeah, I've got some really, really fond memories, but, yeah, I'm afraid I, I did consume a fair few puffing that week. Well, my my biggest

Lauren Chiren: learning was don't go to Iceland on Christmas because everything is shut. Christmas day and boxing day, everything, even the restaurants and the hotels are shut. So it's a very interesting time, but we were the ultimate tourists and had completely the opposite experience, but it was just the most stunning, beautiful, They're the most welcoming gorgeous people I think have ever met. My son can't wait to go back. So one day when when we can, we will go back. But it's beautiful, beautiful location. It's simply stunning. We we went skid doing on the

Joanne Lockwood: glaciers, and that was Absolutely. I mean, I've only ever could do once. I never I never ridden a motor motorcycle before and just being let loose on this thing and just running around the asses and and they're being shouted at because you'll be aware of these these crevices and cracks and fault in the in the snow in case you just went straight through them. So yeah, to keep on this very, very narrow, if single file path, because every time the the leader look the other way, everyone's 5 impressed race that you told them about. It's an incredible, incredible, and I remember getting off this could do on the top of this class here, and it was literally white. Below the horizon and blue. And it was a pretty gorgeous blue, and not a cloud, not anything just white and blue. And I I took one step off this could do, and I went up up to my thighs in snow where the snow is so unpacked and it's and I I'm just literally I I was I went to my thighs and thought, how do I count from here? One of my friends who was really, really kinda lightweight. He got office could do, and he was walking on the snow. It's like incredible, the difference between someone who was a little bit weightier than sort of it was really light. It was really for the welcome. But, yeah, such a happy memories of, sliding sliding down is on on inner tubes. You know, I mean, big doughnut inner tube things like that. Yeah. It's a it's a fantastic place, isn't it? Yeah. It was just a ticket for me to wake up and smell the roses. Yeah. After matches because, yeah, it's bit of a digital detox, I thought, when you were over there -- Oh, it was just

Lauren Chiren: the antidote to what I was going through. And it was just that moment of realization when I set up in bed that night and went, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was what he was trying to tell me. It was like a real wake up goal. It comes it comes on

Joanne Lockwood: slowly, doesn't it? I mean, when we talked about this, you you don't know it's happening, but it's so gradual, I guess, where over the course of many, many years, the decline is probably happening, isn't it? So you don't realize. I

Lauren Chiren: think it's different for everybody. And 25% of women will have quite severe symptoms if they're not prepared for it and don't know where to get help and support like I did. And 55% will have mild to moderate that will need some sort of intervention, even if it's just lifestyle changes. And 20% of women will seal through. However, if you have, nephrectomy hysterectomy, if you have cancer, cancer treatments, certainly in the pelvic region with chemotherapy, then you would go into an instant medical or surgical menopause as Wellbeing a lot of women describe that as being hit like a truck. So for them, obviously that happens at whatever age their treatments or surgery happens, and that can be a lot younger. Menopause itself, actually. I mean, I was under 40 when I went through it, and the youngest recorded case was 12. So it's, you know, you need to be quite open minded and, and, and just we need, thankfully, sorry, excuse me, Minopost is now on the education curriculum. So at least it'll start to get talked about at school. And that's where it belongs because we need to know about it from the go so we can plan for it and recognize it. So is it a

Joanne Lockwood: bit that you have to have HRT? Is that Is that, is that a myth you have to have it, or or is it not appropriate for everybody? So HRT, so I'm speaking as a layperson,

Lauren Chiren: albeit very well educated to the layperson, and I'm doing yet another course in HRT at the moment. So HRT, if you're under the nice guidelines are, if you're under 45, you should be on HRT, at least until you're 51 because your body's not intended not to have the Eastern in it. Eastern's got really strong preventative bone and heart health implications. And that's why men and women will take it even if they don't have a menopausal symptoms, they will take it throughout their entire life. However, because HRT got such a bad rep with, some now so there was a study 18 years ago where there were links between DVT, breast cancer, and HRT, And as they've been, that study has been discredited, but there have been other ones that have popped their heads up, but they haven't been based on the type of HRT that's available now. They haven't been based on, cohorts where they are the ideal cohorts. I mean, a lot of women who've been studied who were over 60 or over, you know, severely overweight obese, and they would be normally contraindicated for HRT in the first place. So that's not where you would start off when you were doing a clean study. So, there's a big swath of GPs now beginning to get educated in HRT Wellbeing what it's for, why it's important. And as I said earlier, because we're living longer and later into life, if we want to be really active cognitive cognitively and physically active, and we want our heart rate, or to be, I think, functioning normally, then HRT is definitely a consideration, but there's, you know, it's it's personal choice. And it will be based on your own personal choice and personal medical history as Wellbeing you say it seems like osteoporosis, bone cancer,

Joanne Lockwood: calcium, and there's something on things. Say estrogen or lack of estrogen is one of the causes or the start of osteoporosis setting in, isn't it, where people bone density recruit increase of, breakages or brittle bones, etcetera, etcetera. So, yeah, but I'd I'd heard around the, all about this, DVT blood clots, the worry around certainly when it's all about trans health care, the risks of of, Oestrogen. And also the the fact that if you take in tablet form, the liver, it gets metabolized in the liver and cause liver problems, which is why they often put patches or creams or topical. See, I I'm quite reserved on all these. I would I would hope

Lauren Chiren: so. Yeah. I'm an education myself. So,

Joanne Lockwood: yeah. Yeah. I mean, is people don't even realize that HRT

Lauren Chiren: comes in, you know, an IUD comes in sprays, pumps, gels, patches, tablets, and people don't know. You can have separate prescriptions or component procedures. Yep. We name it. So, and then the other thing Well, yes, there's there there's all sorts, that's really important to before you go to GP, because our GPS generally are not educated on HRT, They're generally not educated on menopause from if they have half an hour, it's a 5 hours worth of training and they're 10 years of training, they're doing well. And they see shown an interest in it So it's really important to find someone who's knowledgeable, but still make sure you keep a list of your symptoms and make sure that you are read up on HRT through the nice guidelines and clear on what conversation you want to have for your GP and be prepared to have 2 or 3 conversations with them before you reach a conclusion as well. Just be patient and be prepared to educate your GPS to help you. So it's important. Yeah. I certainly found that you need to be a kind of

Joanne Lockwood: a, an educated base know what you're trying to achieve. I'm not saying we want to be a Google hypochondric or or Google expert, but certainly do the research yourself, you know, join forums such as yours, go into Facebook groups, go into other internet resources, and learn about other people's lived experience. And then go to your GP knowing a bit more about you than they do and help help them to I mean, I certainly found that if I go to my GP, educated, I'll get a far better outcome. Yeah.

Lauren Chiren: And I think specifically with the menopause, excuse expression, but a lot of the online forum Gora can be very bitch and moan. And I'm afraid I don't tolerate in mind in the menopause social hangout. We are we're What are you experiencing? What are your options? What are the positives? How can we move forward? And as I've said, you know, you you've you've experienced some of the, the quality of the people I've got in there to help support everybody who are educated and do know their topic really, really Wellbeing. It's important to stick. I mean, Doctor. Google can be phenomenally dangerous and very worrying. So I highly recommend people stick to trusted resources like the nice guidelines and the bms.org.uk, which are the kind of go to sites for people who want to be well researched, well read, and and really get some info on the nhs.co.ukaysight as

Joanne Lockwood: well as now. I've I've -- Which one was that? On the NHS website itself, there's Lockwood resource from there. So yeah. Absolutely. I

Lauren Chiren: totally agree. But, yeah, hormone's, I mean, hormone's in in themselves, we could talk about for hours because they have such a massive role in our bodies and they, you know, they're happening, they're going on, they're going up and down, and fluctuating and doing all sorts of weird and wonderful things to keep us going. And the more we understand how we function, the more control we can have over that. But equally from an employer, you know, going back to the workplace from an employer's point of view, if they can embrace the fact that hormones play a big role in people's lives, and that that can be to their, benefit as much as anything else, then we can start to see people really thriving and doing work, you know, being super creative, super analytical, super, you know, just amazing at what they do. By embracing the cycles and the changes that they go through, monthly and throughout their entire life.

Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And likewise, testosterone's also hormone. She say women have it as small quantities, but also understanding about the male cycle of of testosterone increase in the the mid to late teens and through into the early twenties is is a an extremely, powerful hormone in its own right as Wellbeing changing brain behavior and and and personalities as well. So, yeah, it's, I guess, every one of us has touched by almost in some way. And, yeah, I think is it the ovaries produce the the testosterone in a in a female body, which is then converted to estrogen, isn't it? And,

Lauren Chiren: I was just, just as you were talking, I was slightly giggling to myself because I've got a fourteen year old in the house at the moment. Fourteen year old boy. And, we've had some very fascinating conversations. So so far, I think I'm getting off very likely, like, lightly as a parent, but, which you'll see what's around the corner.

Joanne Lockwood: It's when the busk and the odor develops. You know, you're right at that stage. Yeah. We would. Smell. Yeah. The sundays

Lauren Chiren: are cart blanks. You're not allowed to do anything on screens until you've done your bedroom, and that involves thoroughly doing your floors. Thoroughly changing your bed linen. So that's a paramount. I've got a regulation of, of our son,

Joanne Lockwood: going through that phase. It made me wonder if I ever remember smelling that myself, I suppose, when you're living with those hormones, you can't smell yourself, Kenny, or your or your own musk. So, yeah, it's I've

Lauren Chiren: run out the door with the, the deodorant, or the prespirates, whatever it's called, you know, the, the stuff that they use. And so, no, I don't think you've put your entity person on today yet. Just wanna take that with you today. You might want to put someone at lunchtime. Go up. On the top of it. Oh, some of the computations are hysterical. But, yeah, no hormones are so important, so important to understand. And when you can embrace that for yourself, you can just up your productivity in every aspect of your life. So really super important.

Joanne Lockwood: I have a huge impact on your mental well-being, mental health, even even how you think and some of your inhibitions and inhibitions, they they do I was often thinking that that that they remote control you sometimes. They they can take over your life. And as you say, the experience you had 6 or 7 years ago, where you realize that the lack of hormones or the disruption to your hormone had a real impact on your cognitive function, if you like, your ability. To be who you were. Yeah. And because one of the things that was always today, I think one of

Lauren Chiren: the first times we spoke was how you describe that sense of calm, when you started going through your hormone regime and the kind of switch that that brought for you, which I think you said was quite welcome. Would that be -- Oh, yeah. It's

Joanne Lockwood: it was like I had someone else driving my body before. It was there was another voice in my head that I had that shouted louder than everything else. Mhmm. And I think once I removed testosterone and increase estrogen, I I I realized that that really shut down that that extra voice that was unwelcome has been unwelcome in my head for years, controlled actions that I was ashamed of or disappointed with myself -- Mhmm. -- and allowed me to to have control of my body and my thoughts for once. And so, yeah, it was a real I often described that I went for being two people in my head to being one person, and it fundamentally changed, I mean, apart from my gender transition, but my gender transition, the fundamental thing was the reduction, complete reduction of testosterone, and the the overriding introduction of Oestrogen. Mhmm. That was you can only explain, I think, that what that might what happened to my head, my mind, the way I felt the way I experienced the world, based on that on that that significant change. I don't think the social element would have had the same impact. I feel so calm, so relaxed, so so unified in who I am. Something I'd never felt for the previous 50 odd years of my life. Amazing. Yeah. And, you know, I I I identify as a trans woman as you know, but we've also gotta recognize that there are trans men out there who are also on a similar journey just because someone's trans doesn't mean to say they don't have these. They don't have the menopause. They don't have a monthly cycle. They don't have periods. You know? And if we're if we're being very 21st century about this, men can have periods, men can have cycles, men can have menopause. Where there were assigned feedback at birth. So we have to also recognize that someone in your organization who you may know who is a man may actually have, may may be trans and may also have these underlying conditions as they grow older. So, yeah, it's not all straightforward. No. And I think that's one of the interesting

Lauren Chiren: things now. So I have some clients who no longer have male and female toilets. They have gender neutral toilets. So one of the very first questions I, I, I ask an organization is what pronouns do you use? How to, you know, how what's the education level like in the organization? And I always ask them, are you comfortable with me using woman to cover all people who were assigned female at birth who may have a monthly cycle who may bleed. And we just talk through what that means and who that includes as Wellbeing quite often, it's, it's an eye opener for them because it's not something I've really thought about before, but I'm always really clear that when I'm using terminology, what I'm actually covering when I'm referring to that terminology as well. So I think that's a big part of the awakening and the inclusion of you know, what, what I'm trying to, to over to people, what I'm trying to get people to understand. And typically, you know, with clearly your typical female audience get it. They understand it. They feel relieved that someone's actually talking about it, and that's for the kind of en masse However, I always find it fascinating because it's usually their partners and managers that come up to me afterwards and go, oh my goodness. I am so pleased to learn about this or didn't know that there were 34 symptoms, or the one that always touches my heart the most is when I get someone come up to me, and say to me, I think you might just have saved my marriage. And that is one of, you know, especially with the story of my friend overseas, when I get a man coming up from the end and see, I think you might have just saved my marriage. It's just like, blimey, why do we not know about this stuff? It's so basic. It's so simple and it's so easy to learn about and do something about and talk about, but it's just having that confidence to say the word menopause out loud. And to stand behind it. And I don't know how when you were, you know, when you were going through your journey, Did you find that your own posture and position changed when you're interacting with other people? Yeah. I

Joanne Lockwood: guess I guess it did in terms of my what my femininity and masculinity is up is up. Yeah. I think I'm thinking about

Lauren Chiren: when I would go to business breakfast and be one of few women there when I, when I this journey, this part of my journey, I'd woke up and introduce myself as an exec executive health coach who helped women in midlife. Whereas now, we'll cut go high. I'm Lauren Churn. I specialize sporting organizations become menopause aware. And as my posture has changed, I realized that how I behave has a very big impact on the people I'm interacting with. So the more confident I am, the more sure of my topic, the easier it is for the messaging to land with other people. I suppose in a similar way that

Joanne Lockwood: because I have a level of confidence and self belief and I believe I'm accepted more because I'm I'm I'm sure of who I am. Mhmm. And I'm confident about talking about things, and I get engaged in conversations that are positive most often, because I'm not shying away from who I am or what all or what I'm talking about. So may maybe I I think I think as as you said at the beginning, your mission is to try and make talk about menopause a comfortable conversation rather than an uncomfortable or or a non conversation. So I think there's I I did the same around transgender. Knowledge and people and just trying to raise awareness so that it's a topic that you're having. It's a conversation you're having rather than ignoring. Can I I think, yeah, in the same way you're creating positive conversations? I'd like to think I am as Wellbeing at least when I run training sessions, I often say, does anybody how many people in the in this in this training session know someone who's in this close circle as trans, gender diverse genderqueer, either themselves, their family, their friends, or their work colleagues. And often, it's kind of 30% do, 70% don't. And they're quite relieved afterwards because I say, well, now you know me, you can all take yes next time before they go. But, yeah, I often meet people in when I'm out talking training, even online, where someone in their life is gender diverse in some way, but if not them, then their cousin nor a friend of a friend, daughter or son or a friend of a friend's partner transitioned, etcetera. So I think we're I don't think we're more than 1 or 2 degrees away from somebody who's trans or gender diverse, and So the conversations are becoming more and more welcome. I get more and more messages on LinkedIn. I've had I've had quite a few quite a few messages from from fathers who saw the documentary I took part in and thanked me for creating that conversation in their in their family. So I think what we do is allow people to have a conversation and start that that process. That that's the best. That's that that, for me, that inspires me, if you could do more, that is a really quick first step to have that conversation and talk about it. Yeah. No. I 100% agree. I just

Lauren Chiren: love when I, you know, one of my classics and I walk away from an event is turnaround goal. Right. Repeat after Perimenopause, and I'll repeat that three times just getting people to say the word out loud three times. And it's just phenomenal when the whole room or, you know, on screen and suddenly you just hear everyone take themselves off mute and go menopause and then invite them to do it every day for 21 days till it just becomes normal. And, you know, it's, it's just a quirky little thing that I do, but the more we can stand in our power and the more we can coverage other people's stand in their power and, and be more open and more accepting, I just believe will create such a happier and more content world. It sounds it sounds a little bit grand, but it's so important. Wellbeing

Joanne Lockwood: certainly did today the difference between premenopausal, Perimenopause, menopausal, and postmenopausal. And that the word menopause really is a a kind of a one day event that you go, yay. It's been a year. That's it. But and up to that point is perimenopause after that point it's Perimenopause. And before perimenopausal, what you're saying is basically your pre, I. E. You're in the prime of your life. Your your your you're growing up becoming becoming a more mature, and that's typical for you. And it's only when the the hormone levels start dropping and your month starting a period stop for a period of 12 months. That's when the the Perimenopause kicks in. So if nothing else, I've learned a lot. I was a little bit educated before, but I've I've I feel like I've now got the I've now got this that key facts in my head. And, also, I'm I'm more aware just haven't spoken to you about these, was it, 30, 34 signs of of of the Perimenopause? And the symptoms that go on that I'm more aware now of when I meet people, I even think back in people I've known over the last 5, 10 years, Well, well, I'm now thinking maybe that was a factor. It's a new relationship breakdowns. You know, I'm hyper where relationships Oestrogen down. Some of my friends have have divorced. And I'm actually wondering whether this could have been an impact as well. Yeah. I think, I mean, they're gonna close out

Lauren Chiren: in negative stats, but the average age of menopause is 51, which is the same as the average age of women attempting to take their own lives. There's a spike in women leaving work age 45 to 55, the average age of menopause and a spike in divorce 45 to 55. So I don't think it, you know, there is some research going on into this at the moment, but I don't think it takes us a rocket scientist to fit the put the things together to realize that hormones have got a big role to play. So like anything in life, when you understand it and you accept it and you know what to do about it, then you are in a much more harmonious space. And the help and support is all out there is just learning how to access it and knowing where to go to get sign posted. So thank you so much. That's the

Joanne Lockwood: positive thing. So so how do people get a hold of you? So you've got if we talk about Facebook group, you've got website, So I'm sure that people are gonna wanna make contact with the after listening to this. So tell us how how it goes. -- really simple. Just contact me in

Lauren Chiren: LinkedIn. It's probably the best place to get hold of me. And my my website's women of a certain stage .com. I am the curiously bad admin. So I'm not one of these people that's got this always seen dancing up to date website. If you want to see what I'm and you want to learn more about menopause, definitely join me on LinkedIn. You'll hear about everything I'm up to, all that I'm doing, and I'm always really keen to open a conversation and see how I can help and support. And for sure, share this podcast,

Joanne Lockwood: share some of the webinars you've done before, etcetera, etcetera. And I suppose if you're in an organization, have a have a chat with you, see if you can do a talk or come in and advise, etcetera. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. And if anyone, you know, if anyone is struggling

Lauren Chiren: themselves, you know, give me a shout. If I can't help, I will know someone that can. So whether it's personal or professional, I can definitely get you on the right road. Fantastic.

Joanne Lockwood: Well, I'm inspired and there's loads of ponder there, and I'm sure, the listeners, anyone tuning in will have a it's a fantastic resource out. So a huge thank you. Thank you so much. Our time today, Lauren. A huge thank you to the listeners. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening to the end. Please do subscribe to keep updated on future episodes of the Inclusion Bites Podcast. That's B-I-T-E-S. Please tell your friends. Please tell your colleagues. Please do share this. I have another exciting guest lined up. I'm sure you'd be also inspired by over the next few weeks or months. And if you care, if you'd like to be a guest on the show, let me know. Drop me an email. If you've got any feedback, suggestions, or anything any other comments you'd like to make to improve the show? Again, let me know. So just drop me a line to jo.lockwood@stagehappen.co.uk. So finally, my name is Joanne Lockwood, and it has been an absolute pleasure to host this podcast for you today. Catch you next time. Bye.