--- title: "Resilience Without Shame" episode: 215 date: 2026-07-23 guest: "Nancy Ferraro" canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/215-resilience-without-shame audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-215/audio.mp3 --- # Resilience Without Shame In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood has a deeply candid conversation with guest Nancy Ferraro about the realities of resilience, trauma parenting, and overcoming shame. Nancy discusses her experience of adopting George, a child from Romania with severe special needs, revealing how expectations quickly collided with unforeseen challenges such as fetal alcohol syndrome, attachment disorder, and institutionally acquired autism. Joanne and Nancy explore the relentless pressures, the grief of unmet expectations, and the isolation parents can face—particularly when society is swift to judge and slow to offer support. This conversation highlights the unspoken burdens that come with raising children with complex needs and rallies listeners to champion open, honest conversations over stigmatisation and silence. Nancy is an attorney, author, and special needs parent who shares her lived experience with an unvarnished authenticity both through her book "When the Bough Breaks" and in her advocacy work. Her journey began when she adopted George at the age of four, naively expecting only mild challenges, but quickly found herself navigating the exhausting realities of survival, violence, and profound misunderstanding from both professionals and the community. Determined to shed light on this often-hidden experience, Nancy has become a prominent voice for traumatised parents, speaking at major conferences and supporting families through virtual platforms and support groups. Her honesty about her own struggles, including coping with trauma and seeking help, positions her as a compassionate connector for others experiencing similar journeys. Together, Joanne and Nancy reflect on the importance of redefining resilience as courage without shame, the need for honest communication, and the impact of building supportive networks. Their conversation dismantles the illusion of the ‘perfect’ family, instead offering hope, realism, and practical understanding for anyone affected by trauma parenting—be they birth parents, adoptive families, or wider support networks. ## Chapters - 00:00 — Adopting George from Romania - 05:10 — Adopting a child from Romania - 09:38 — George's early life challenges - 11:09 — Discussing George's care arrangement - 14:30 — Navigating Romanian Adoption Process - 20:09 — Raising awareness for frustrated parents - 22:28 — Struggles of alcohol dependency - 26:48 — Facing the decision to seek help - 30:38 — Supporting Kenyan students against child marriage - 32:23 — Admiring Nancy's dedication - 35:17 — Joanne's contact and sign-off ## Key takeaways - The misunderstood distinction between developmental delays and permanent disabilities, and the myths around "loving" trauma away. - The compounding impact of prenatal harm, early childhood trauma, and institutionalisation on children’s lifelong outcomes. - The generational effects of trauma parenting, including the strain on families and the often unspoken shame experienced by parents. - The difficult, yet empowering, decision to seek external professional help and redefine what it means to be a caring parent. - The unique challenges of navigating adoption systems, medical misinformation, and the harsh realities facing special needs children around the globe. - How stigma and secrecy fuel isolation for families—and why connecting through storytelling and support networks is vital for resilience. - Practical approaches to building inclusive communities and advocating for structural change, starting with authentic dialogue and mutual recognition of shared struggles. ## FAQs ### FAQ: Resilience Without Shame — Parenting Through Trauma and Inclusion --- What is the main focus of this episode? This episode explores the lived experience of raising and advocating for a child with severe special needs, with particular emphasis on resilience, the dismantling of parental shame, and the importance of community and openness for those in similar circumstances. Nancy Ferraro shares her story of adopting her son from Romania and navigating the complex realities of trauma parenting. --- What challenges did Nancy Ferraro face during her adoption journey? Nancy Ferraro adopted her son, George, from Romania, initially unaware of the extent of his needs due to inaccurate medical reports and misleading assurances. Upon arrival in the US, it became clear that George had multiple profound disabilities, including foetal alcohol syndrome, attachment disorder, and institutionally acquired autism. The family experienced social isolation, daily survival challenges, and a lack of societal understanding or support 03:01. --- How did the early childhood environment affect George? George was affected by several complex factors: heavy prenatal alcohol exposure, birth-related anoxia (lack of oxygen), abandonment at birth, and subsequent time in the Romanian foster care and orphanage system. He developed survival mechanisms in response to institutional neglect, which influenced his development and phonemic awareness, resulting in nonverbal tendencies and attachment difficulties 09:38. --- What impact did these challenges have on Nancy Ferraro's family? The intense demands of care and unpredictable behavioural episodes placed immense strain on family dynamics. Nancy Ferraro's marriage did not survive, and despite her efforts to shield her older son, he was nonetheless affected by the ongoing trauma. However, Nancy Ferraro is proud that her older son has grown into an empathetic and successful adult 12:32. --- How does Nancy Ferraro address the feeling of shame that parents often experience? Nancy Ferraro believes that shame emerges when parents are unable to "fix" their children's troubles, an experience compounded by societal judgement. She advocates for shedding light on these issues, fostering hope and openness, and emphasises that asking for help is an act of courage rather than a weakness 04:47, 27:13. --- What is foetal alcohol syndrome, and how is it addressed in this episode? Foetal alcohol syndrome (FAS) is a result of prenatal alcohol exposure, leading to lifelong developmental, cognitive, and behavioural challenges. The episode highlights not only the medical and social consequences but also the compounded stigma and silence parents may experience. The need for advocacy, legislation (such as the Fetal Alcohol Syndrome Respect Act), and removal of blame for birth mothers is discussed 21:43. --- Why is community and connection important for parents of children with special needs? Families often feel isolated and unsupported. Nancy Ferraro stresses the transformative power of community, connection, and shared experiences, underscoring the importance of platforms where parents can find solidarity, validation, and hope 20:09. --- How did Nancy Ferraro come to terms with placing her son in a group home? After nine years of being George's primary carer at home, Nancy Ferraro and her family reached a breaking point. Placing George in a group home was "devastating but empowering," shifting from denial to embracing specialist support. She describes the placement as the best decision for both George's well-being and her own mental health, and encourages others not to equate asking for help with failure 18:13, 27:27. --- What broader societal issues were discussed? The episode briefly addresses the ongoing crises in orphanages globally, the persistent lack of appropriate resources for children with special needs, and the social determinants—such as poverty and lack of investment in child health—that continue to impact vulnerable children worldwide 31:34. --- How can listeners connect with Nancy Ferraro or find support? Nancy Ferraro is available via her website: meetwithnancy.com Facebook support group: "When the Bough Bends" LinkedIn and other major social platforms Her memoir, When the Bough Breaks: A Mother's Story of Carnage, Courage, and the Triumph of Faith, is available at mainstream book retailers 33:43. --- What is the central message for parents or carers facing similar struggles? Resilience is not about going it alone or shunning help. Seeking support, being open about challenges, and letting go of shame are paramount. Sharing these stories helps drive societal change, build community, and foster inclusion for all. ## Transcript Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world Remember, everyone not only belongs but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo, and share storeys that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and inspire action together. Don't forget, You can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 215. With the title Resilience Without Shame. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Nancy Ferraro. Nancy is an attorney, an author, and a special needs mum who shares an unvarnished and deeply human perspective on trauma parenting, together with advocacy and resilience through lived experience. When I asked Nancy to describe her superpower, she said That it is her resilience developed through years of raising a child with severe special needs and continuing to advocate, speak out, and build community despite extraordinary challenges. Hello, Nancy. Welcome to the show. Hello, Joanne. Thank Nancy Ferraro: you for having me. I'm thrilled to be with you. Oh, it's lovely. We were Joanne Lockwood: chatting just now in the green room and you said you're in the US? Nancy Ferraro: Yes, I am. I'm in Florida. In Florida, Joanne Lockwood: the Sunshine State, but it's not very sunshine at the moment, is it? Nancy Ferraro: Well, it comes and goes. The nice thing about Florida is we might get a cool day, but then in a matter of a couple of days, we're back on the beach. So we're recording this in February and no doubt this episode Joanne Lockwood: will drop in the summer. So we'll look back at this and go, well, actually it's a bit colder because it's a bit dank and damp where I am at the moment in the UK. Sorry, Will. Yeah, it is what it is, you know. It's never the wrong weather, it's just the wrong clothing. You just gotta find the right clothes to wear and it's fine. Go out in any weather. Although in Florida in the summer, you go out in t-shirts and flip-flops. So yeah. Yes, we do. So Nancy, you mentioned, I mentioned in the introduction there and I looked in the show notes, you said, sorry, you have a disabled son or? Yes, I do. Well, I'll Nancy Ferraro: tell you, years ago I adopted a child from Romania and he was 4 when he came to the United States and all of our reports said that he was typical, but George arrived as a feral child. He was basically a wild animal in the body of a boy with disabilities ranging from foetal alcohol syndrome to attachment disorder, to institutionally acquired autism. We came to know George as Hurricane George because of the violence he rained down on us. And really what I wanted was just to give my older son a little brother. And what I got was a decades-long exercise in survival. So the reason that I wrote When the Bell Breaks, the memoir about raising George, is because when our children have troubles, and we as parents cannot solve them. There's a lot of shame around that. Society blames us. We blame ourselves and no one talks about it. And when we came out basically vertical, I felt a responsibility to shed light, share hope, and open up that dark tunnel because it's very lonely. All of your social outlets disappear. You feel like you're running an impassable battle and it's just trying to get from one day to the next. And I thought, certainly I'm not the only mother going through this. And certainly I'm not the only one who needs to hear a message of light and hope and community. Wow. That's quite a story. So Joanne Lockwood: take me back to that time. So you were, you had a child and you were, your plan was to adopt from Romania, give a child who was coming from that environment, a, a better life, uh, a brother or sister, whatever that may be. And you were expecting that child to be in need, but not in extreme need. Is that what you were saying? And when they arrived, they arrived almost blindsided you cuz you weren't aware of what was gonna happen. Nancy Ferraro: That's true. We had no idea. And even when we went to Romania to pick him up, it wasn't readily apparent because he would laugh and run away from me in the streets of Bucharest. And I thought, well, how am I going to explain this to the Romanian police officer? Because the only word he said was no. Is this your mommy? No. And I'm, you know, picturing myself in a Romanian jail. But he did not attach and I didn't expect him to because how could he? Because he didn't know us, right? So it took me a little bit. And frankly, I was living in denial until I realised that it wasn't just that he wasn't used to us. It wasn't just that he wasn't picking up English. He wasn't picking up language at all. He had more severe disabilities than I had ever imagined. And we had a journey of coming to the realisation that love was not going to cure it. When you hear speech delay or developmental delay, to us laypeople, that means temporary, right? Delay is a temporary thing. But in the medical world, delay means a permanent disability. And I had no idea. I thought I would love it out of him and then everything would be Norman Rockwell. Well, turns out not even Norman Rockwell is Norman Rockwell, but it certainly wasn't what we were expecting to deal with. In raising a family. I'm— my mind's going back to Joanne Lockwood: a period of time a little while ago when the Romanian, um, government— was it Ceaușescu? Was this around that time? Because I remember seeing storeys on the news of orphanages and children, right? You're right. So Ceaușescu Nancy Ferraro: fell in '86, and we got Georgia in '19. 90? No, we met Georgia in the year 2000. So there had been a lot of news storeys around Romania trying to join the European Union. Ceaușescu fell, all these rescue people from all over the world ran in, and then the news storeys were Romania was cleaning up SAP. They were trying to join the European Union as a developing nation, and they had to prove that they were taking care of the children. So that's what we were consuming. That's what we were fed in the media. And then on top of that, our medical reports told us that he was typical, that there was nothing wrong with him. It wasn't until we got him back to the United States and I found a therapist who was fluent in Romanian, who read my reports and looked at me and said, your translation is wrong. They knew that he was special needs and they passed him off on you as a typical child. So I Joanne Lockwood: remember you know, as you say, back in the '90s, the noughties, the early 2000s, there was lots of TV news reports of those orphanages and the conditions the children were being kept in. So your son was from that era. Exactly. Well, he was Nancy Ferraro: a little post that era. We thought we were past the danger point, right? But when I was writing the book, I started listening to interviews. Now, George is basically nonverbal. He speaks in 3-word sentences, gets his point across, but there's no way that he could tell me a storey that didn't involve something concrete or relay his experiences. And I started listening to interviews with Romanian adoptees in the United States who actually had a higher IQ and could put words together and tell the story. And it was absolutely horrifying to me to know that these things probably happened to George, but he'd never tell me and it will never come out of his mouth. So you can't heal a child if they can't communicate that, right? So it's always going to be in there somewhere. And that's the most disturbing part. Sorry, I'm, I'm struggling to find the words. This Joanne Lockwood: is very, really emotional. This is really traumatic to listen to this story. And, um, it ends. Well. Yeah. Nancy Ferraro: The storey ends well. We'll get to the end. know, We, you I'm looking forward Joanne Lockwood: to get to to the, the arc of the story. Yeah. So what have you surmised as being the root cause? Was it a birth or was it as a result of trauma he suffered while in the womb? Was it post-birth environment? Nancy Ferraro: It was actually all of the above. His birth mother drank pretty heavily and in Romania they make that homemade plum brandy that's very akin to grain alcohol. Right? And so there's no prenatal care. So all those insults in utero. And then when George was born, he had anoxia, which is lack of oxygen to his, the brain, which affected his IQ. And then once he got into the foster care and the orphanage system, the way they fed the children, I'm learning, was with those big holes in the bottle. Because they fed them the glug and they had to get the bottle removed for the next baby, right? So George developed some kind of survival mechanism so he didn't choke to death. And as a result of that, he has no phonemic awareness, so he has no idea where his tongue is in his mouth. So he has words that he says and wants to say, but you kind of have to know him to understand the point he's getting across. And he Let me tell you, he's very happy. He's very well settled. He's very well cared for. And George is the mayor of everywhere he goes. But those challenges and the fact that he was abandoned at birth mean that Mommy's just my name. He cannot attach to me that way. But not to, I don't mean to upset you because it all did come out for the best and George living his best life in a group home. He has 24/7 care and it's something I could not provide for him in my home. Frankly, we had to lock our bedroom doors to protect ourselves from the violence that just emerged from him, and you never knew when it was gonna happen. And so even though he still suffers from that, I'm no longer the object of the violence and he has professionals who know how to calm him down and separate him from the group. And frankly, when it's over for George, it's over and he's on to snack time or TV where you or I would be blubbering in the corner for a week, right? No, George is always ready for, you know, treats and TV and ice cream. So there's a blessing there. It's like a rhythmic rage Joanne Lockwood: where he's fine, then some brain chemicals hit him, he gets angry, frustrated. He takes it out on the world and then snap, he's back in the room and he's, he's, he's off doing whatever he was doing before. And it's like it never happened. So, but you're Nancy Ferraro: still bobbling. I used to say George is like the fat man who jumps in the pool. The fat man's always fine, right? It's the rest of us who are bobbling and trying to save our lives in the water. So that, that must have Joanne Lockwood: an impact on your spouse, your, your, your other children or your other child. Right. Well, very disruptive time, wasn't it? Nancy Ferraro: Yeah. Well, my marriage didn't survive. Obviously not many marriages do, but my older son, I believe, is on a good path. You know, he's successful, he's empathetic, he's turned into a very lovely man and I'm very proud of him. But he does have trauma from his childhood, even though I did my best to shield him, to try to give him some kind of normalcy. And of course, I'm sure I let him do things with his friends that I never would've allowed before, right? Because I wanted him to have some kind of normalcy when I was, you know, over here distracted with George. But he's, you know, he's fine. My ex-husband remarried pretty quickly after we divorced, so I guess he's fine. And my older son is just thriving and has a lovely, lovely husband whom I love and in Napa and just living life. That's fantastic. Fantastic. Joanne Lockwood: So in terms of timeline, just so I can try and contextualise this. So you, you picked up George in Romania, you went over there. How old was he at the time? He was just Nancy Ferraro: 4. Just 4. Just 4. And mind you, I put in for an infant girl, got a toddler boy. But you Joanne Lockwood: know, so Was there any point when you were in Romania thinking, hang on a minute, we just need to walk away from we, this. This is, this is something we, we can't do this. Or, or was it immediately responsibility you were or as committed it were? Nancy Ferraro: What happened when I saw George is I became physiologically pregnant with him. He was my, the moment I laid eyes on that child, he was mine. You could have told me he was purple and had 3 heads. I would not have heard you. He was mine and he needed me and I was going to rescue him. And when we were there, and we went to the foster home. I was really nervous because they insisted on feeding us and showing us the town. And I'm like, can we just get out of here with my baby? I just want to get out. And then of course you have to go through the embassy and you have to go to the medical facilities. And I remember knowing just enough Romanian because I was learning mommy Romanian to speak to George. Are you hungry? Are you tired? Are you cold? Wash your hands. And the doctor looked at our facilitator and said, nu verbește, which is Romanian for he doesn't speak. And I remember feeling a trickle of sweat go down my back, just pure panic. Oh my God, they're not going to let me live with, leave with this child. It was pure terror. I thought I just need to get him home and get him into a normal circumstance and everything will be fine. Had we had the luxury of true medical reports, we might have made a different decision. But I firmly believe that if we had not taken George, he would probably be dead. He was unmedicated. He was feral. He had lazy eye and he had these awful scars up and down his back. So I know that, that there was some trauma. There's no doubt in my mind. That had we left him there or sent him back, he wouldn't have survived very long. So in a way, in a very weird, strange way, I'm very grateful they landed with me because I have ESQ behind my name. For some reason, when you're an attorney, that scares people. So I took full advantage of that. I wrote all my letters on law firm letterhead because it gave the impression that I had much more knowledge than I did. That's okay. You know, I needed to get somewhere for George and I used any means that I had at my disposal to make headway for him. So in a way, he landed with the right people. How is he Joanne Lockwood: now? Oh, George. George is living large. Nancy Ferraro: He lives in a group home with 2 other boys. It is not the scary institution that I pictured for so many years, and that's the reason I fought it for so long. But he goes on outings. He spends all his money at Wawa, which here is like heaven for coffee lovers. It's a convenience store. He tastes all the flavors. I think one month he spent $300 on coffee. I'm like, George, you know, rein it in a little bit, right? But he's happy. He goes to day program. He goes on outings. He goes to his dad every other weekend. And frankly, the world is his oyster. And he's what, 20-something, is he? He's now 29. Joanne Lockwood: So how many years was it that you tried to parent him at home? How long did it take you before. You— It was 9 Nancy Ferraro: years. 9 years. Almost to the day. Yes. And part of it was I was afraid because he was so little. Every doctor since we brought him home said, this child needs to be in an institution. He needs more help than you can give him. And frankly, I was doctor shopping because I am mother, hear me roar, and I was going to fix this. And every doctor that didn't give me the fix, I dismissed as a quack. Well, had I listened to those doctors, I should have listened to those doctors, but I was not willing to at the time. And then The word institution scared me because I I was, had this image of these horrible places where they tie kids to the bed and I didn't want that. I was very frightened that he would get hurt, that he would be mistreated. But once we started to actually explore the services available and the places, it became a whole different story. It's like, why did I not do this for him before? And it is really the best decision I ever made for him because of the structure they're able to give him because of the way they keep them on a schedule. They manage him and they, they're professionals and they have an 8-hour shift and then they go home. Right. I didn't have an 8-hour shift. I had a 24/7 shift and was just completely burned out. Look at, think Joanne Lockwood: of the timeline. You picked him up at 3 or 4. You were able to parent him at home for about 9 years. That means he was what, 13, 14? I presume at that age, as you said, you, you were getting worried of him hurting you, hurting others. He would've been becoming a teenage boy, developing strength and, uh, you know, his physical, physical strength would've been growing considerably at that point, wouldn't it? Nancy Ferraro: Yeah. Well, he had strength when he came home. His, when he was 4, And he would start raging. Those chemicals kick in. And also his muscles were taut, which is not normal. Toddlers are supposed to be chubby, right? George was not. He was very sinewy. And so when he decided to rearrange his furniture and it was nothing, he was in a rage, everything would be moved. And then I'd go in later and try to move everything back. It was really difficult. He had this Herculean strength that was just abnormal for a child. And the, yes, the bigger he grew, the more frightened we became. I became, I was the one home with him. You, you. I think you Joanne Lockwood: mentioned you are part of a, a community or a network of other parents or people who have adopted or brought children into the country from Romania or other places. Are there other storeys from other, other people of similar situations? Shockingly, there Nancy Ferraro: are more storeys than I imagined. And when I go to conferences and talk to parents and realise how much violence is produced in these children, and not just George, not just children from Romania, not just children with foetal alcohol syndrome, children who suffer from certain types of autism. Because they have no frustration tolerance and that causes violence. And I've seen so many parents who are burned out, hanging on by their fingernails. So I am really on a mission to reach those parents. And I'll be speaking at the largest special needs conference in Florida this year. And I hope that is just the beginning because Mothers especially, anyone who stood in the shoes of motherhood, could be a father, but anyone who's had that all-encompassing responsibility and that feeling that if I can't fix this, who will? They need to hear that message. And people come up to me afterward and of course we all cry. We cry because they finally feel heard. They finally feel like someone has experienced what they're going through right now. And has come out the other side. So I really am so purpose-driven to get in front of as many parents who have experienced traumatic parenting as I can. And this is not just adoptees. This is Joanne Lockwood: parents, birth, birth parents as well in the US and around the world. Nancy Ferraro: And funny thing is, parents give birth to foetal alcohol syndrome children in the United States as they do all over the world. But of course, there's a modicum of shame with that because that means admitting that there was alcohol consumption during pregnancy. But we can't hang on that because that gets us nowhere. We have something called the Fetal Alcohol Syndrome Respect Act that works its way through Congress, but there has to be conversation. And I'm happy that you do this. I know that you do a lot of this because fear hides in the darkness, right? You have to bring issues out into the open in order for people to talk about it, remove the shame, start connecting with each other. Yeah, it is. And shame is one of those emotions that Joanne Lockwood: has no purpose really. It's an internal thing, isn't it? It's, you need to lose it and find action, find purpose. And I think reclaim. But I'm guessing if your child is suffering from foetal alcohol syndrome, you as a mother birth mother would still be going through some of the crisis of, of your alcohol dependency. And I'm assuming that alcohol dependency would lead to homelessness, joblessness, relationship issues, lots of other things, and probably maybe even drugs and other, other, other dependencies. So you, you're probably not in the best place regardless of, of dealing with the child. You've got some other challenges to deal with in life your own for yourself as well, haven't you? Yes. I, I'm, Nancy Ferraro: ashamed to tell you, but I'm not. It's in the book. My life is an open book. Believe I was actively trying to kill myself with alcohol because it was numbing. And I would hear that bus, the short bus coming down the gravel driveway. We had a 50-foot gravel driveway. And when I heard those bus tyres start down and the crunching, it was amazing the ability I developed to open a bottle of wine by banging it against the wall. I mean, I was a master at it because it was so common. So you're getting the cork out by—. Oh, I'm good at it. I could show you how to do that. But I was so frightened of what was coming in the door. He could be angelic or he could be come coming, in attacking me. I never knew what was coming. So yes, there was a lot of destructive behaviour and I'm not proud of it. But it was the only way I knew to cope at the time. So you've sorted Joanne Lockwood: yourself out. You uh, found, found a better way without alcohol. Have you, are you now 10 years sober, 20 years sober? No, what I discovered is I'm not really an Nancy Ferraro: alcoholic because I've, I went through the process and discovered that I can have a cocktail and not and have an off button. It was a response to trauma. And just like anything, depression, it was a response to trauma. And of course, it took a few years to unwind from that because you're so used to being in panic mode, in survival mode, that when you're not, you kind of create something because you're so used to— it's what you know, right? The trauma, the conflict is what you know. So it took me quite some time to cycle out of it, but there is light on the other side. Joanne Lockwood: So you've written this book about your life, I suppose. And I think you said before we went live, it's about being able to change the life of one other person to have a more positive outcome. So it's about creating that awareness, isn't it? So when did you write that? How long ago did you write the book? I started writing it. About Nancy Ferraro: 10 years ago. And I actually went to a pitch conference in New York City and I was asked for a book proposal by a major publisher. And I had no idea what a book proposal was, let alone any of that. I had 10 pages and an idea. And my older son said, I'm not over my childhood with George, mom. You can't put this out. And I said, okay, put it away. And then a few years ago, I had been stalking a writer's retreat. I knew I was going to write the book. I just didn't know what I was going to do with it. And I got into the finals of this national writing competition. And again, I called my older son. I said, honey, I won't do it if you don't want me to. And he said, no, mom, go for it. I'm proud of you. I said, okay, honey, don't read the book. And so as far as I know, my older son has still not read the book. His partners read portions of it to him, but I feel like it did a pretty good job of protecting his story, my older son, cuz it's his storey to tell. But yes, it was a long time in the making. So the book is called When the Bow Breaks. That Joanne Lockwood: implies from the title that something broke the bow. Exactly. So what was the breaking point? Was that when you had to put George into care, or was there a point in there where everything exploded? There was the Nancy Ferraro: moment of realisation when you can no longer hide in denial, when you have to adjust your expectations for your child and you have to— I hate to call it a come to Jesus moment, but it really was. We came to the point where it was impossible to keep George in our home any longer. Because he was big, he was violent, and we knew that we had to place him. And that's the moment when my bell broke, because at that moment I had to redefine my relationship with my child. And it was heartbreaking. It was devastating because I had to admit that I could not fix it. But it was also empowering because I believe that asking for that help was not a sign of weakness. It was absolutely courageous and important.. And I want other parents to know that asking for help is not a sign of weakness. You're not meant to go through this alone. We're not meant to do anything alone in this life. And so the moment that you step out and you ask for help, that is almost sacred. You used a Joanne Lockwood: phrase when you were, when you first met George out in Romania, where your womb, was it your womb or your parent motherhood? Just enveloped him. Many might say that you went above and beyond reasonable expectations in sticking with this. You know, most people would have, even if you were the birth parent, people might have said you would have, you'd have every right to hang on, step back from this, but to be an adoptive parent, adoptive parent from child from overseas, adoptive parent from who's adopted a child where there's a clear breakdown in communication as as to, the expectation and the needs of this child. Many might say that you, you tackle something beyond any reasonable expectations and you've, you've done amazing to keep doing that. There really wasn't a choice because I knew what would Nancy Ferraro: happen to George if we sent him back. And the other more important decision was, what am I teaching my older son? Am I teaching him that people are expendable? And then when they get inconvenient, you just jettison them? That is not something I wanted him to grow up with. And I knew that, you know, it's like being stuck with a sword. Do you leave it in or pull it out? I knew that if I sent George back to Romania, the psychological impact on my older son would have been 'Hey, people are expendable. I can just do whatever I want with no repercussions.' I'm not raising that kind of a human, and I'm so glad I did not because he's turned into an amazing human being. Yeah. And part of your family, your son, Joanne Lockwood: your younger son. Yeah, exactly. I take my hat off to you if I was wearing one. No, it's something amazing. I'm just trying to explore the thoughts going through my head. You not only have you written a book, you speak at stages, you mentioned speaking in conferences this year, but you also travel the world doing this. That's the goal. I haven't travelled Nancy Ferraro: the world yet. So far I'm just in Florida, but I am doing virtual speaking and that's going to be the focus of this year. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. But are, I mean, the one, one side of this is the foetal alcohol syndrome, which is obviously an ongoing problem. It's not gonna go away anytime soon in the US and around the world. But are are are there, there, there still children like George living in orphanages, being in, in worlds where they're not getting the care in their native country or even, even in the US? Is that still a problem with the adoption system? I'm almost frightened because I do some Nancy Ferraro: work with the African Orphan Educational Foundation. And I support a pre-law student there in Kenya, and I do not even want to ask the question because she's a very bright girl and she was about to be sold off into marriage. And had I not sponsored her, she would've had a horrible fate because of the poverty. And so my question that I'm almost afraid to ask the founder is what happens to the special needs children? Because these are typical smart intelligent, driven kids who are having trouble just feeding themselves, let alone getting an education. So I suppose that's the next hurdle. I have to brace myself for it, but yeah, I'm sure there are. I know there's, there are horrific things going on around the world, but Mother Teresa said, you can't change the world. You just change your corner. And I'm trying to change my corner. Because there are still areas of the world Joanne Lockwood: that are in poverty. There's drought, there's malnutrition that causes developmental diseases, lack of vitamin D, rickets, bone structure, poor diet leads to brain injury as well. So there is still going on in the world, maybe not in Romania, but maybe in other, other parts of the world, other continents where certain regimes are not investing in healthcare and child support and growth that we may expect in the Western world. Of course, of course there is. One, Nancy Ferraro: what do we do? How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. So yeah, yeah, I, I know it sounds very, yeah, one talk at a time. So that's, that's my goal. Nancy, this has been really Joanne Lockwood: enlightening and heart-wrenching and just to hear the storey and I'm 4,000 miles away from you and I'm, I'm feeling really quite, quite moved. By your passion and, and, and the way you've stepped up for this. And it, as you said, what else could I do? That in its own right, that sentence is, is, is, is exactly what makes you a strong and, and capable person who, who's taken this challenge on. And it sounds really patronizing, but I admire what you've done and I admire what you continue to do, how you're spreading the word. Nancy Ferraro: But aren't we all? We all have challenges. And you don't realise how strong you are until you get 40 yards away from it and look back, right? So we all have a story. Everyone faces their own challenges, but everyone's got something. Joanne Lockwood: It's all relative. I know. Everybody's got something. We all have. Exactly. So Nancy, how how can, can people get ahold of you? I'm sure everyone's going to want to reach out and connect with you about this. Thank you. Nancy Ferraro: It's very exciting. I do have a link, Meet with Nancy. It's http://meetwithnancy.com. //meetwithnancy.me. And I'm happy to chat with anyone. It's a video conference and a short get-to-know-you meeting. And anyone who wants more information, I'm happy to talk with. The book is available. It's called When the Bough Breaks: A Mother's Story of Carnage, Courage, and the Triumph of Faith. And it's available at, of course, Barnes Noble, Amazon, everywhere books are sold. But I would love, love, love to hear other mother storeys and I welcome the connection. And you're on the usual places like LinkedIn Joanne Lockwood: and I'll put all the details. Yes, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Nancy Ferraro: Facebook. Yes, absolutely. There is a support group on Facebook called When the Bough Bends. And so there might be some good resources for parents there that I run. So invite you to connect there as well. And people could join from all over the world. Joanne Lockwood: It's not purely a North America, US. Absolutely. Absolutely. Fantastic. And Nancy is N-A-N-C-Y Ferraro, F-E-R-R-A-R-O. Nancy Ferraro: Correct. So if anyone's looking for that, perfect. Reach out. Joanne Lockwood: Nancy, thank you so much. It has been my Nancy Ferraro: honor. Thank you. As we bring this Joanne Lockwood: conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites and become part of our ever-growing community driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family, and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, stories, or a vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire, and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world while episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.