--- title: "Planting a seed of kindness and understanding" episode: 21 date: 2020-12-24 guest: "Ryals" canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/21-planting-a-seed-of-kindness-and-understanding audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-021/audio.mp3 --- # Planting a seed of kindness and understanding Ryals reflects on growing up gay in Ukraine, navigating shame, bullying, and the pressure to hide who he was while living through a period of upheaval and suppression. He shares how early messages from his parents, especially his stepfather’s quiet wisdom, planted a “seed” that later grew into a deeper commitment to compassion and understanding. Moving to the United States became a turning point: a chance to rebuild his life, come out, and repair relationships, including a difficult but ultimately loving conversation with his mother. Alongside this, Ryals speaks candidly about depression, grief after his father’s death, and the role of therapy in helping him unlearn anger and move forward. The conversation also explores how Ryals channels lived experience into creativity and advocacy, using songwriting, performance, and storytelling to encourage young people to live more freely, seek support, and choose kindness. He discusses partnering with organisations supporting LGBTQI people facing persecution and plans to take anti-bullying messages into schools, emphasising that small acts of empathy can create lasting change. ## Chapters - 00:00 — Stepfather became a guiding, loving influence. - 06:52 — Longing for hope, New York as direction. - 12:27 — Curious about new country, worried about security. - 19:34 — Visited Poland, met iconic figure, heard powerful stories. - 22:00 — Struggling to come out and find acceptance. - 28:42 — Ukraine trip: worried, but had positive experience. - 36:11 — Danced on cruise ship, wrote lyrics for artist. - 40:40 — Lady Gaga's message brings hope and change. - 42:35 — Transition from personal pain to advocating unity. - 51:26 — Dancing, acting, singing, album recording, global journey. - 52:31 — Recording album, journey to New York, reflection. - 59:00 — Struggling with hate and finding purpose in life. - 01:05:47 — Parental influence may conflict with personal dreams. - 01:09:29 — Official, Instagram, questions, connecting, sharing experiences. ## Key takeaways - Overcoming emotional challenges in adolescence and the transformative impact of music. - The profound effect of personal loss and the pursuit of hope through storytelling and creativity. - The role of empathy and kindness in personal development, influenced by familial teachings and life lessons. - The interplay between artistic expression and self-discovery, and the process behind creating impactful music and visual art. - Navigating financial struggles and the commitment to supporting one's family through times of hardship. - The importance of internal healing as a precursor to extending help to others. - Embracing one's identity and sharing a message of peace, acceptance, and love through public platforms and community engagements. ## FAQs ### Who was the special guest on this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast? The special guest was an artist named Ryals, who shared his journey and experiences, focusing on kindness, acceptance, and the power of music. ### What personal challenges did Ryals discuss during the episode? Ryals opened up about his challenges with depression, the loss of his father, and the financial struggles of supporting his family. He also discussed the difficulties of growing up gay in Ukraine and his journey towards self-acceptance. ### How has music played a role in Ryals' life? Music has been a beacon of hope for Ryals. He found solace in Lady Gaga's songs during his teenage years, and now he's focused on creating music that tells meaningful stories and inspires others. He also expressed the deep connection he feels to the energy his music produces. ### Can listeners download Ryals' music and view his album artwork? Yes, Ryals' music is available for download. Joanne Lockwood expressed admiration for his album artwork and showed interest in the original photo before the addition of edited clouds. You can find his music on his website and various streaming platforms. ### What message does Ryals want to spread through his music? Ryals aims to promote kindness, empathy, acceptance, and love through his music. He is particularly passionate about supporting the LGBTQI community and spreading a positive message to younger generations. ### How does Ryals plan to use his platform to help others? Ryals has partnered with the Rainbow Railroad organisation to support LGBTQI individuals, and he's planning a school tour with the Gab organisation to promote kindness and prevent bullying. ## Transcript Joanne Lockwood: Hello, everyone. My name is Joanne Lockwood and I'm your host for the Inclusion Bites podcast. In this series, I will be interviewing a number of amazing people and simply having a conversation around the subject of inclusion, belonging and generally making the world a better place for everyone to thrive. If you'd like to join me in the future, then please do drop me a line to jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. That's the S-E-E Change Happen dot Co dot UK. UK. You can catch up with all of the previous shows on iTunes, Spotify and the usual places. So plug in your headphones, grab a decaf and let's get going. Today is episode 21 with the title planting a seed of kindness and understanding. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to be joined by Ryals. Ryals described himself as a boy from a small town in Ukraine who had big dreams and refused to listen to anyone who told him otherwise. When I asked Ryals to describe his superpower, he said, being connected directly to the source of energy that his body is producing. Hello, Ryals. Welcome to the show. Good morning, Ryals: Joanne. It is my pleasure to be here today. You said grab a decaf. I would grab coffee, just regular and tonnes of it, because it's still 09:30 in the morning in New York and I definitely need some coffee to wake up. I am so honoured to be here and to meet you. Cheers. Joanne Lockwood: Cheers. Today we can't hit Starbucks. We got to make our own today, haven't we? We have to still lock down. Today is actually the first day in New York Ryals: when it's a bit cloudy and the weather dropped to 13 degrees celsius, which has made us even closer. I don't know how it is in UK right now, but it feels very autumn. It's been a bit of a mini Joanne Lockwood: heat wave. We're about 22 degrees over here at the moment, which is what? I'm not sure what that is in fahrenheit, but in european measures, it's about 22 and it's actually quite nice for middle of September. Yeah, very good. Nice. All right, Ryals: so we exchanged a little. We got you the heat wave and we got. It's a very british Joanne Lockwood: conversation talking about the Weather. I know. A Ukrainian in New York. Talking about the weather with a Brit Ryals: I have prepared. So let's talk about the weather. I know, yeah. Joanne Lockwood: Tell me, in the show notes, you put this phrase in there, planting the seed of kindness and understanding. So what does that mean to you? Where did that come from? Ryals: I'll start with my father. My father was my stepfather, but he raised me from when I was one and a half years old. And my father, he passed away in 2013, but he was the one who was that spiritual person in my life who would always told me things so wisely and so subtle that I think that was planting a seed in me, in that kid who did not understand what is he saying? But in years that, see, would grow into a big, big tree and a big, big forest. And I think he was the one who planted kindness and love and compassion and empathy to the whole entire world and to the people I know and to friends and family. And I still recall his words in every step of the way in my life. And, yeah, I think he was the one. He was the one who started that process in me, turning that little boy into a man with understanding. So I was growing up being gay in Ukraine, growing up in the closet, under the pressure of society and under the pressure of my own friends and family, who would joke around with shame, not me, because I wouldn't let myself. Since I was 13, I said to myself, no more. I have to create this shield. I have to be as straight as possible, I have to be as smart as possible, as wise as possible, as kind as possible to. Just by having this shield show people that you're not going to get me, so you don't even have to try. And the shield was growing over the years, over ten years of my life, when I would not recognise myself anymore. And I thought that this is me. I guess I've shaded myself into who I am, even though this is a completely different person. And now I'm having troubles with myself, troubles living my life, but yet I still had a dream to change it, to change my surroundings, to change my life, because this is my life and I have to build it. That's when I moved to the United States and started my new journey, the journey of who I really am. And still with the words of my father in my heart, that you'll make it, you're the kindest person I know, and, yeah, that everything's going to be okay, even though you don't have the answers now. Keep going. Carry on. Joanne Lockwood: That must have been a real moment in your life when you made that decision to leave your hometown, your family or your friends, and ship yourself off to New York, even though the world is a smaller place than it today, than it was 30, 40 years ago. That's still a big deal, isn't it? To go from one culture that is significantly different to another culture, isn't it? And alone, effectively, yeah, absolutely. Ryals: I don't know if that's the movies that shaped me, that shaped my brain, that there is a better life somewhere, or just the longing inside that if I don't belong to this place, I'm sure there is a place on earth right now where I could find myself. And I always had know New York was like my north Star, that I would always see somewhere. I didn't know what's behind it, I didn't know what's there, but it was sort of a direction for me to go. And when you have this direction, when you have hope in your heart, you can go through the most difficult experiences in your life just because you know that somewhere, you believe that somewhere, there is a solution, or you just have a sense of direction where you have to go. So when I was 18, my family and Mia, we didn't have any money, any big money, so nobody would even dream of flying somewhere, not moving somewhere. And here was me, 13 years old. Like, when I'm going to be 18, I'll travel the world. I'll be trying to move to America. I'll be in New York. I'll start my life. And that's where nobody, nobody would even think that that would be possible. So nobody would find those words. You know, you just believe in yourself. You just carry on. Except my father, before very the end, we would have that conversation and he would say how much he believes in me. But nobody until then was like, yeah, you're going to make it. Even though that seemed ridiculously hard, nobody would find a word to encourage that. So that's where you had to shape yourself into this strong person with self motivation, with seeing that North Star, even in a cloudy day, just knowing it's there, even if you can see it now, you just know it's there and the cloud is going to move, and you're going to see it again. And when I was 18, I said to my mom, all right, well, I'm 18 now. In the summer, there's a programme called work and travel. I think I'm going to travel to the United States and see how it goes. And that's where my mom freaked out. She actually found out that that was real. She actually found out that my words that I was saying and preparing her for five years, that they are real. And she cried. She started crying. She's like, what do you mean? How is it possible? Why? And I worked hard, a few jobs during my university years, and I had a scholarship. So I just gathered all my money together, borrowed some money, and was able to pay for that programme. I still don't know how, but it happened. I just wanted it so much that nothing could stop me. And there I am crying on the plane when we are landing in the United States. Yeah. Facing new challenges. I think that will shape me into a prison that I am right now. But that's where the journey begins of me sort of reevaluating my life and finding a way to live your true life. And though it will happen five years later, but I think that would be a hook in my brain that will start a completely new process of thoughts. Joanne Lockwood: Had you travelled much before or was this your first venture across the Atlantic? Ryals: I think I travelled to Hungary when I was twelve with the group of my dancing group. We attended a competition. That was my first abroad trip. And then, yeah, I think that was my first trip. And right across. And then I came back and I travelled a little around Europe, sort of with a backpack, hitchhiking. There was great experience. The cheapest hotels, the car from town to town, from Budapest to Vienna, from Vienna to Graz, from grads to Venice. It was beautiful. But yeah, my first trip was straight 9 hours on a plane. Joanne Lockwood: Wow. So this is no, kind of like, this is going to be okay. I've done it before. This is like, literally pack your bag, get on the plane, see what happens. Ryals: There's this magnet that just like pulling you in and you're not resistant, you're just following it. Follow that. So you weren't going with any plan as such other than to Joanne Lockwood: land and see what happen? Oh, yeah. Well, I was Ryals: thinking, know, if I do it through the programme, I'll at least have a job and I'll have a place to stay. So I'm not completely lost because still being in Ukraine, you're in the bubble and you are a kid. You're still a kid. You don't have much experience being abroad or dealing with, I don't know, paying the bills and finding places to stay or finding a job in a different country. So I was a little secure about that. But I wanted to experience, how is it here? Who are those people? What do we eat? What do we say? What do we watch? So that was my first touch with the culture. And I met a family by the pool. I worked as a lifeguard, I met a family by the pool. I met a cat first. I met their cat and she was three collar cat, just like I did have at home. And then this woman appears in front of me and she's like, I really hope she will not bother you. This is Ginger. She will come to the pool very often, will live right there. And she was the first customer, person that I met. And how many years later, seven years later, that lady walked me down the aisle because my mom couldn't make it to the wedding here. And Diane. Yeah, we are all connected now, we're all big family, but that's how it all began. What amazing story. What an amazing Joanne Lockwood: story. So you would have been in Ukraine as a young person at the time of the revolution and the time, all the trouble there because as I think I mentioned you earlier, I was in Kiev last year, I think it was last year. And just hearing the stories and seeing what had gone on less than ten years ago, I mean, seven or eight years ago. So you're 25 now, you would have been 1718 at the time, would you? Ryals: Yes. Same year as I came back from the States. I think it started and I might be wrong, but November somewhere close to winter. Yeah. First of all, it's amazing that you visited Ukraine. I hope you liked Kiev. I haven't been to Uk yet, but that's one of the dreams of mine. Definitely going to visit you. Maybe we'll grab coffee somewhere. I'd love to hope the pandemic is over by then. Yes. Revolution started so sudden, I'd say, but during that time we were attending university and the independent square where everything would take action. It was right above the subway that we would go to study and a lot of the times they would just close the subway because there is a chance that there is a bomb or something. So we would have to go around and find another way to get home. But it was scary for sure. People were on their feet, people were driven by the force because it is hard to just make it through the life in poverty, in being suppressed and just when people have that drive even if they don't know completely what they're doing but they just know stand up on their feet and they're protesting because it's their lives and they want to change. That's when it happens. It doesn't happen often. You see that there's not much changed in Ukraine and people are still protesting but it's not as big because a lot of us just give up and be know I can make it through the day so I'll make it through the week. I can make it through the week and I'll make it through a year. It's fine. That completely does not touch me. I'll be just was a, it was a big thing and Crimea was separated from very, very beautiful place. Very beautiful place. I've been there also by myself, travelled. Amazing, beautiful place. People just stopped going there as much as often. Now everybody's going to Odessa. Odessa is overwhelmed by so many. You know, whatever happen, happens. It's not always in our power to change, but whatever we can, we can. So my limited experience of Joanne Lockwood: Ukraine for my week long visit there. You've got the East Ukraine and West Ukraine, where the eastern side is more russian speaking, the western side is less russian speaking. And there's a kind of like an east west divide within Ukraine itself, isn't? Is there not? Ryals: I was sort of in the capital, right? I was a small town, right, besides Kiev. So my family was a russian speaking family. I speak fluently Russian and fluently Ukrainian, and I don't like to mix them together as a lot of people do, and creating their own language, which is if you're not from Ukraine or you're learning Ukrainian or Russian, you will not get. So there is two parts of Ukraine, as you said. That's correct. But personally I did not feel that the difference. Sort of like if you're in West Ukraine, yes, everybody's speaking Ukrainian, which is. It is Ukraine, so it is your language, you know what I mean? And if you are in the east of Ukraine, everybody's speaking Russian, which I do speak Russian. We all speak Russian because Soviet Union broke up not so long ago. So our parents were still born there and obviously they spoke Russian, so they sort of like took the position, okay, I know Russian. I'll learn Ukrainian, I'll speak both. But this is the country and I'll respect that. So I'm sure there are people, as everywhere, probably in every country, where the point of view is completely different, and they will stand by it without the exception of one another, for sure. My friends and my family wasn't one of those people, thank God. So I cannot speak from the experience of the protesting side. But yes, it is there and it's part of the nation for sure. Joanne Lockwood: I was fortunate enough to go to Poland in Gdansk probably about 15 years ago, and I had the immense privilege to meet Lekvaenza, who is often credited for being maybe the start of the end of communism in some parts of Europe and instrumental in bringing down the Berlin wall and starting that movement and such an iconic figure. But to hear the stories of people who are my friends in Poland, because I went there with some friends who lived there, they were actually part of that solidarity movement. They were imprisoned by the police, they were kept in solitary confinement, beaten, and people didn't know where they were. That whole revolution experience, talking to my polish friends at the time was very powerful. But then to come to Kiev and hear the stories of Independent Square with snipers on the roof, learning about the people who are shot down just in a crowd, these were just ordinary people out for the day, shopping or whatever they're doing in a country that I felt was so typically european. When I visited Kiev, it seemed very western and normal to me, whatever normal may mean. So it felt really strange to be somewhere where there'd been so much trouble and violence less than five or six years ago. And that really was powerful. To read the stories and see the candles and see the photographs of those people who died that day and see the legacy of the monuments in Independence Square, all the pictures of what was going on at those times, was immensely powerful. And I defy anyone to go there and not feel the emotional connection with the stories. And it would take a very hard person not to feel a tear or feel some sadness for what went on. And it reminds us of that we live in this world where that still happens. It's still happening now in many countries in the world. And it's not just. Even some of the more westernised countries have the same trouble. We have troubles in riots in America. There's still the black lives Matter, and still people are fighting oppression, aren't they all over the. Of the. Ryals: One of the stories that we are trying to share, me and my husband, to people even here, and to our friends and to our families, because as I moved to New York and a year after, when I moved to New York and people were asking, know, you're gay, right? I'm like, yeah. And it was so hard for me to overcome years and years of shame and suppression that I think I would blush saying that, yes, I am like a child, because I think I was a child in this field. I was coming out so slow and learning to walk. And a year after, I think so much anger was just bursting out of me because I couldn't live a life that I sort of was given, that I had to come out to my mom, to my brother, to my friends, and it was the hardest thing to do. But I felt like there was a wall that was getting higher and higher between me and my mom because of not acceptance of me not accepting myself, me not accepting my mom. And I felt like mom's not accepting me. So I had to just break it down and make that wall to fall. So the last conversation we had, I was flying to California, watching the movie love Simon, which is, I thought, cliche. All right, he's coming out. So what? The jealousy was talking in me, and I watched this movie. I was completely crying, always crying on the planes. If you see me on a plane and I'm watching a movie, I'm going to cry, because it's always drama. I flew to see my friend in California, and I had a feeling, like, this is the day that I'm going to talk to my mom. We had a conversation. I couldn't say a word. And then we got into a fight again. And then I'm like, this is it. I hung up, and I'm like, we're not going anywhere anymore. I can't share my life with her. And my life is starting booming here because I came out here and I'm living, and I'm being myself. And I texted her, I need to talk to you. She's like, all right, call me back. I call her back. I facetime her and started crying little by little. I'm like, mom, as I would put it, people in Ukraine say you're not a traditional orientation, which she would say right away, what is traditional? I'm like, okay, this is weird, hearing it from my mom. And then I'm like, mom, I'm gay. She's like, well, she said, you cannot change my life. I cannot change yours. And if you're happy, then she would go into a phase for a year, into sort of like back and forth. It's like, you know, you had such a nice friend, your girlfriend. That would be so nice if you were guys together. I'm like, mom, I'm literally getting married. What are we talking about right now? But then she loves my husband. She now never asks me, how am I? She's asking, how are you guys? How's everything? It's very sweet. Very sweet. Joanne Lockwood: It must be really magical for you, where all that apprehension, all of that nervousness, and then to find that almost undying motherly affection and acceptance must have been fantastic. I Ryals: know. And then I had to find an acceptance for myself again and not be angry at the world and not be angry for all the years that I've sort of lost and didn't have school dance with the person I liked or didn't have dates or didn't have whatever all the teenagers had. Still working on that, I think. But psychologists really helped. I had to unbreak my brain completely because I said, I'm not moving forward. I've completely stopped. But still, it's been three years, and my life has changed. Completely. And it's almost easy to forget that you're living in New York in this bubble when everything is, you know, acceptance wise, and you forget that you're still from Ukraine and there's still no gay people. Some of them are coming out, but I know a lot of people that are gays and they're still in the closet and will never appoint to themselves as gay people. And that's Ukraine. That's the country I'm coming from. But what about 72 other countries and 13 countries where being gay is punishable by death? And countries where you're getting thrown into jail because you're gay and somebody will be thrown into a jail if they don't tell on you, if they know. And that's what we are trying to raise awareness about and continue fighting. Seeing it now, aren't we? In Joanne Lockwood: Poland, in Hungary, they're winding back regimes now where lgbt acceptance was more positive. And now Poland, there's an anti lgbt agenda, I think is Hungary, where it's anti trans legislation being put in Belarus. When they just accepted the amendments to Ryals: the. Where, you know, the marriage is only between a man and a woman, which was always there, but now they establish. So if you are married in another country and you're coming back to Russia, you don't have any rights, you don't have any spouse privilege. And it's happening now, as we say, we live in 2020 and it is happening everywhere. Something is happening when you would say, we're in 21st century and we've seen so much in our history, or we've learned so much, and yet we still have so much to learn and so much to do and so much to fight for. Unfortunately, no. For sure. Joanne Lockwood: When I went to Ukraine, I was nervous. I used my western bias, if you like, assuming that it was going to be dark, horrible, and I was going to be at risk. And I spoke to the conference organisers, I was speaking at a conference there and they assured me that, hey, now, this is Cosmopolitan, this is full of this part of Ukraine, it's full of western companies, Facebook and Twitter and big companies like that. It'd be fine now, don't worry about it. And I thought, ok, and to be honest, when I was there, I had a completely positive experience. There's a few times where I had men walk straight through me, but I think that's more of a sexism thing than an lgbt thing, where I was standing in a supermarket and I was expected to just get out the way of men as they walked past me or through me and I found that very much on the streets as you're walking along, there was very much a misogynistic attitude that women get out the way of men and men are just coming through and they don't even look at you. They just get out my way, sort of thing. So I found that a bit strange, just kind of the attitude of right of way, if you like, and I realised it's quite a male dominated kind of do as you told, sort of from. Apart from those kind of little moments, I found I had no concerns at all. I had a very similar experience in Estonia, in Tallinn. I had complete acceptance there, speaking at conferences, talking to people. It wasn't an issue. But I am a bit nervous about ever going to Moscow or back to Kadansk or even Budapest. I'm now thinking, do I put those on my no fly list? Because it's not a safe place to go anymore? Are. Ryals: Yeah, yeah, that's true. I am very happy that you had a pleasant experience in Ukraine. Ukraine is changing, for sure. The kids that we know, it's a new generation that is there, the teenagers or pre adults. When we were kids, they were much tougher on bullying and thank God it's changing now. And I hope for the better, that every generation will bring something bright and delightful into the culture. But as we said, that eastern and western Ukraine still sort of divided. There was so much going on on the territory of that know western was always Poland was fighting for that side, Russia was fighting for that side, or russian empire before Russia itself. And it was always a war, always divided. The World War I, world War two, everything was happening on that land and so many people and intelligent people were killed. And here we are, left, sort of the slaves of the situation left and decided, not decided, but were forced to just live now and develop our nations on our own. And we didn't have much of a brain capacity, if that would be smart. Because you mentioned Joanne Lockwood: Poland just there, and Russia from a UK perspective, we didn't learn much about Eastern Europe history and the rise and the cultures in eastern Europe. But when I was in Kiev, I learned that Poland were effectively your nemesis. They were your invaders. Poland were your old adversary, weren't they, from the right. Right. Never knew any of that. Yeah, that's what they taught us. Ryals: We weren't there, we couldn't see. Joanne Lockwood: It made me realise that we only hear the history that we hear. We don't necessarily get taught about rest of the world. And so I'm living in this very UK educated world and I haven't learnt about the history of mean. You can't learn everything. I appreciate. But it certainly made me realise that I've got this very narrow view of the world that I see and it makes me more hungry to find out about other cultures and about other people's history, to understand the lived experience and why people experience the world they do. I guess this is how the world is getting divided by Ryals: not being hungry as we are to learn, but being stubborn and closed up in the opinion and just the history and just the information they know and they've learned just that much about that piece of the country or a piece of the world and they're standing by it, not accepting what was going on and what is the opinion, for example, of the other country. Even if two countries were in war, what that country learned and the other one, it's a completely different history. So acceptance and one more time, acceptance into everything in our lives, for sure. Joanne Lockwood: Let's talk about some of the happiest stuff in your life. How you're now spreading this, as you put it, this see, to build a forest of love and acceptance in the world. And you're doing that through music, through dance, through your creative side. Yeah, sorry, you mentioned you were involved with the Eurovision Song contest. So you wrote some lyrics, is that right? That's correct, yeah. Ryals: I started writing songs since I was 13. I think that's the moment when you're creating a shield but you still have to talk it out. So you start writing poetry and you start writing songs and putting all your emotions in there and all your pain in there and it's sort of like your sacred place. And I was writing in Russian. When I was 16, I started learning English and I started writing in English and started writing for myself. And when I was 18, when I was 19, okay, that was 20. When I was 20, I recorded already two of my own songs. And then as I go on in 23, I released an album of mine, scold state of liberty. And I was like, listen, I'm enjoying writing songs. How cool that would be to write for somebody else and have some compensation for it and also, why not? And yeah, that was one of the dreams of mine. And then in 2000, no idea, four years ago, sometimes 16, I departed on. I lended a job. Well, I fought for the job to be a dancer on a cruise line. And we travelled the world and we actually crossed the Atlantic once again on a boat. Incredible experience. And I was a dancer. I worked as a dancer in a show on the cruise ship for seven months. And during that time, a manager of ukrainian artists contacts me. We sort of, like, met each other somewhere before and she's like, he's looking to record songs in English. Would you help him with writing lyrics? Like, oh, my God, absolutely, yes. And I think the first song was for Eurovision for the competition, but a year before he went. And ever since we started working with him, I am actually in the process of writing new lyrics for the new song of his. But he didn't make the club the first year to the Eurovision, so he carried on with creating an album and more music and more music. And I worked on most of the songs with him and then a year later, he's like, all right, we're going to try it again. Let's write another song for the Eurovision. And he did an incredible job. I was happy to be a part of it. And he made the cut. He went to Eurovision, put out a beautiful, beautiful performance and made it to the finals. And all in all, it was great to see our names together listed on the screen in Eurovision and him as a songwriter, me as a lyricist. It was beautiful, incredible. And Ukraine, I was here, living here already, and Ukraine was watching and screenshotting everything. What was going on there, like, oh, my God, did you write this song? Did you write this song? I'm like, not the song lyrics, but yes. Thank you. It was wonderful. My grandparents were very happy. Because lyrics and Joanne Lockwood: songs are just a way of storytelling, telling future generations, telling the people who listen to you, your truth, your story, your message. And through that, you can spread love or hate or whatever message you want to share. And I'm hearing that you're using your lyrics, your music, as a way of empowering the younger generation to live more freely and to show more acceptance to the world. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Ryals: This has been my goal since I started writing, but I still seen this as a goal. But at the same time, I was dealing with my own pain and my own experience that I had to not outgrow, but experience and live through it. And now, as I'm 25, I finally have the feeling that I've been there. I actually been there and I'm here now. I've changed my life completely. I moved to the States, I'm living here. I got married, I came out and now I'm ready to not just speak my truth, but also to encourage those kids as I was once. And when you are 13, the world is still so hard on you. When you're 25, the world is hard on you when you're 60, the world is hard, but when you're 13, you don't have much experience to deal with it. And that's where you're looking for that, out there somewhere. And when I was 13, when I was 16, when I was going through my first falling in love and breaking out of love, but sort of breaking up, not even being together, because I fell in love with the guy the first time and I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't know who to tell. I didn't know what to do with the feelings that I'm experiencing. And that's where I got into one of the, I had two depressions in my life for a year that time. And when my dad passed away and that time I realised that if I don't pull myself out of there, nobody's going to. That's where I was looking for anybody to tell me anything, that I'm just going to be okay. That's where Lady Gaga really helped with her message and I appreciate her for that so much. There were so many people that have been doing it, but who made it to Ukraine, who made the cut to be screen and being on the radio, and then when you google her content and what is she saying? You hear that message and you know that, okay, so it is happening. It is true that the people do not accept sometimes people, and that's not okay, but it is what it is, but you still can make it and you can change your life for the better and just keep going. And I want to be one of those people who, if there's going to be 113 or 16 years old, who's going to listen to my message once and that's going to change his life, I will be the happiest person on earth. Because I realised one thing, I'm 25 and life is better now for me. And I thought that life is better for everybody right now as just looking through my perspective, I'm like, look at that, 16 years old. He looks like he's got it. He's got it all. He figured it out. I couldn't. But it's not true. It's not true. Some people didn't. Some people are still teenagers that need a lot of help to guide them through until they're in a better place. So my music and my storytelling through music videos, which we finally, I'm so happy. We just shot one this past weekend, which had a music video. And I'm continually working on more meaningful and more storytelling songs, which my days is sort of a breakthrough for me. Completely different from State of Liberty album, which was based on me dealing with my pain of loss in my days. It's sort of dealing with the world that was thrown at me and I had to grow up and find my place. Now, the song that I'm working on called great society, which starts with, I've been told all my life there is no place for me to be. Things like me don't survive in a great society. I have lived all my life hiding for the sake of life had no right to decide whether I had my right. I'll continue fighting for people because we are all the same at the core, and we all need help, and we all need acceptance and love. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. The other lyrics you sent me was, we plan this life like there's tomorrow, like there's no injuries or death, like there's no room for sorrow like I'll kiss your face in the morrow. Subconsciously avoiding the mess. Very powerful. Giving people inspiration that we got to try and look in the positive. We've got to be there for each other. We got to avoid the negative sometimes and push forward with all the positives in life. Ryals: Yeah, absolutely. Even if we are making a change in our lives, we still need a lot of help and a lot of support. So to be kind is the message, to be kind and to be empathetic. You never know what's going on with a person that's standing or sitting next to you. My mom actually planted that seed in me. She was telling me from the very, very beginning of my life, just imagine how would the other person feel? And that message was so strong when I would do anything bad, and I will. Oh, my God, that kid. Thank God for my parents. I don't know how they dealt with me, but I was trying. I didn't know what the world was. I was just, like, having fun. And sometimes having fun doesn't mean you're not hurting anybody. And that's what I always say, you can do in your life whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anybody else in any way. And yeah, she would always say, just imagine how would other person feel? And it would plant such a strong seed that grew into even a bigger forest of compassion that I would never on purpose do anything to hurt anybody in any way. And that gives me that ache for every person in the world on our planet, because we are all trying to make it. We're all trying to survive, all trying to eat, to sleep in a warm place while trying to escape persecution in any way. We're all just trying to be happy and to find a better life for ourselves. Because most of us live in poverty, most of us trying to make it from a paycheck to a paycheck, or even just trying to find where to get that paycheck, where to get that penny, where to get that dollar, to just feed your family. And my mom would always struggle, would always come back home, would always count every penny, write those bills, and lots of the time would cry, not knowing how to make it. And I only understood it. I saw it always, I'm like, mom, don't cry. But I only understood it when I just moved to the states. And I knew if I don't make the dollar, I'm not going to be able to pay the rent. I don't have anybody who's going to help me with the rent. So if I don't pay the rent, I'll be homeless in a country that is still new to me. If I don't make extra dollar, I will not eat. So most of the time, I would get through the day just with one sandwich. And then I called my mom and I said, mom, I finally understand you. And I still do not understand how still every night you go to bed thinking how you're going to feed your family tomorrow. So I try to help my family as much as possible, but it's most of us, it's a lot of people. Yeah. Joanne Lockwood: I was just hunting around on the Internet there, and I found your track my days and found it on Amazon music. Sweet. Are you. I'm going to have to download that and listen to that. A. It's a big deal. You're a proper music artist, aren't you? You've got a career. I mean, I love in the COVID that artwork. Is that you with the. I'm guessing it is you. I can see you in there. Yeah. So that's you with the clouds on your eyes. It is totally Ryals: me. Totally. Seen that idea somewhere. So I borrowed it, made it a little different. But I love the sky covering the face. And, yeah, I had this idea and the track was already ready. I had to upload it to the Internet for it to come out on a specific date. And I told my husband John, I'm like, all right, could you please take a picture of me that's going to be on the COVID of the song? He's like, sure. And I put a lamp behind my back. I threw a napkin on it so it created this beautiful sunset colour behind my back. Before the napkin got on fire, we took a few pictures that I then cropped and edited and put a sky on my face and sent to my friend who just wrote riled my days. And here he goes. I'm like, oh, my God, I love it. It's so nice. Just like, you just had a workout. Joanne Lockwood: You kind of got this nice sort of. Ryals: He's like, all right, you ready? My husband was like, you're ready? I'm like, wait, I need to spray myself. Yes. Joanne Lockwood: It's a great photo. It's beautiful. Yeah, I want to see the one without the clouds now I want to see the full shot. So we have to send me that one. Yeah, Ryals: put it in the show notes. You've got big Joanne Lockwood: plans. This is just the beginning of your music and dance career and songwriting career. So if you've got big ambitions, I mean, I know you've got big ambitions. You've upsticks and fled across the world, arrived in New York, you're not going to be beaten. So what's your mission? Are you working with record producers or shows? I appreciate Covid and lockdown has probably put a bit of a dent on it for a while, but what are your ambitions? Are we going to see you headlining with Lady Gaga at some point? Oh, my God, that'd be a dream. Ryals: I would just like to meet her, to tell her, thank you very much for guiding a lot of us through. Oh, my God, I'm going to have tears on my eyes. I had my dance and singing career, or just my life since the very beginning. I was very artsy. I would sing from since I was like four. I would have concerts and my dad's work. I would come, my mom would put me on a chair and everybody would stop work and I would sing a whole concert of 40 minutes to everybody. And then I was singing and dancing at twelve, as I said, we went to Hungary for a dance competition. Then after school, I enrolled into art academy to get my acting degree, degree in acting and as an acting teacher as well. Then I got into musical theatre in Ukraine and was there for two years. Then I embarked on this journey on the boat around the world, dancing, and they held the rehearsals in New York. So it was a great comeback. After three years, I came back and then I came back home. I recorded the whole album that I already put together on the ship. I'm like, all right, this is the time I have to take this first step as a recording artist because I am in my head for ten years, but I have to actually do it. And then three months I'm recording an album and then I'm departing on even bigger journey because I'm going to New York and see how that know so much have happened during my life already. Before that, I was always in a rush. I was always trying to get out of where I was. I was trying to make my life more real for me and not hiding behind anything anymore. And dance and sing and act and dance and sing and act and always switching cultures, switching countries, switching languages, like switching surround people that surrounding me, friends and family, not that I've switched completely, but now they're behind 7 hours ahead of me. So we're always on the phone. And that's where I had to start working with the psychological because I just said to her, this is a lot. I don't even know what my dream is anymore. I think I've just ran so far that I don't know where I am. So for two years, I sort of, like, took a huge break from everything artsy. I was just trying to survive and working lots of jobs and getting to know the culture and people and making that feel like home from scratch. So as I started working with the psychologist, I started working with music consultant from Nashville. I said to him, listen, I haven't done anything in two years. This is me. Here I am. I've been writing some music, but I don't even know what to do with it anymore. And I started working with the psychological at the same time. And I said, I don't know what my dream is anymore. And it's been four months, and I have never felt so good because I see my dream again. I established myself as a person on the other side, sort of. I'm not the person who needs help. I'm the person who can give help. Either it's a word, either it's some financial fundraising that my husband does such a good job with that because we partnered with Rainbow Railroad organisation that we met about a year ago. Organisation located in Canada, has some office here in the States, and they help LGBTQI people escape persecution physically. They trying to get them a visa. They trying to get them a flight ticket. They trying to help them to establish themselves in another country. They constantly need money, constantly. Because to transfer one person from a country to a country, it's a minimum, $13,000 a minimum. And they receive so many letters with, please, I need help. I don't know how to carry on with my life. And I found myself that, yeah, this is it. I have changed my life, and now I can try and help somebody else. So this where the music is not just spilling out my emotions. That's where the music is, the voice of me and of many, many other people that feel that. They don't express it in music or words, but they feel that. And I want to be the voice of us, of those people, of all of us. So that's where the music became my voice now. And now I know what to do with it and where to go. So I'm very blessed, very happy to work on the music again. My days was out a few weeks ago now we shot a music video. Now we are recording great society and we'll put together the ep, hopefully by winter, and there's so many more plans for spring with new music and hopefully the pandemic will be over soon. So partnering with Gab organisation, which is generation against bullying, me and a few other artists will depart on a school tour around the country and performing and talking to kids about kindness and love and support and no bullying allowed. Amazing Joanne Lockwood: helping. Any suicidal thoughts. And, Ryals: yeah, there's so much to do. Husband always say so much to. Joanne Lockwood: So you must look at your life today versus the life in Ukraine that you could have had. And there's no comparison really, is there? I mean, you must love your parents, your family, your country of birth, where you're brought up, that culture, but you've gained so much acceptance in America, in your new life that this must be real hard for your brain to sort of say to still love your country because you're so embraced where you are now and you can't necessarily be yourself at home, can you? Or your birth, right? Ryals: Yeah, that's something I talk about with my psychological about because my first sessions were. Sorry for sharing very personal things. My first sessions were, I'm like, I couldn't find my life in Ukraine and what if know, I will not be complete person as well because my family is there. How does it work? Where does one find peace? I was very confused. I think I found peace. I think I'm very happy with my family being there with me being here. Cannot wait to visit them. Absolutely. I think that would be a new phase in my life when we are seeing each other and I'm seeing my friends and definitely, but I went through so many phases in my life where as growing up. So you're that 13 years old boy and you do not understand why the whole world is against you, which the whole world is your country and your surroundings. You don't know any other experiences, so you do not understand. So I was hating my country, I was hating people. I had so much hate that I just did not understand why. Just literally the question why. And then I've come to realise, I think after I visited states and I came back and my dad passed away and that was that year of grief. And as I was coming out of that depression, year of depression, I realised I don't hate my country, I think it's all for a reason. I think that is making me stronger. Thank God it didn't break me, but it is making me stronger and it's time to move on. I'm thankful for all the experience and how I grew up because maybe I appreciate other experiences now more. And here I actually do have the opportunity of be myself and be the voice, because honestly, I don't know if I personally, me, would be able to do it in Ukraine. Some people do, some people do not. And I'm very, very proud and happy for people who can because they're even maybe stronger than me. They fighting in the zone of war and I'm fighting from sort of a safe place, let's say. But I had to gain this feeling of safety to be able to carry on with my message. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. So through love, through peace, you're spreading your message rather than through arms and struggle. Yes. So yours are more peaceful. So not only have you found peace, you found a passion and you found a purpose to your life that you didn't have before. So all those things come together to make life have meaning for you. You're absolutely right. Yeah. I always had Ryals: a feeling that once I'll be the voice. I'm 14, I'm 15, once I'll be the Voice, I'm sure the pain that I experience, a lot of people do, but I couldn't. I couldn't because I was in pain. And if you are in pain, I don't think you can help somebody unless you overcame it and you have the word of kindness to say you're going to make it too. It's not going to be easy, but you're going to. We all do. Yeah. You need Joanne Lockwood: to remove your own pain to a certain point before you can help others, because you're not careful, you end up mixing your pain with their pain. You've got to kind of be in that comfortable position where you find yourself first before you can help others. Yeah. So this small town boy from Ukraine, a Harry Potter fan, ended up in New York, living the dream, writing music, having a song as part of the Eurovision. This must be kind of at the age of twelve or 13, you couldn't have predicted everything you've had. You may have found you wanted it, but you couldn't see it until you did it, could you? Yeah, that's true. And then. That Ryals: is absolutely true. And when you did it or we do it, then you're looking back at that boy at 13, and then you tell yourself, oh, my God, wait, so I am living a dream, despite all the struggle, despite anything that life throws at you? It is life, but you are living a dream. Yeah, that's true. It's your life, nobody else's. And Joanne Lockwood: you've taken control and owned it, and you're doing it for yourself, for the benefit of others as well. Yeah. So you still got family back in Ukraine? Do you have brothers or sisters? I have a younger brother. Yeah, he's 20 now. 20, wow. Is he going to follow you or is he finding his own life in Ukraine? Has he got his own mission? I think he is right at the moment Ryals: of figuring out what is the position in life he's going to take what is his life. Because he was 13, I was 18. He was 13 when dad passed away. Yeah. And we are different. Definitely. I cannot compare our lives at all. I wish him the happiest life ever, but he going to have to create it on his own. And I'm always there for him to help him, to motivate him as much as I can. Every day, anytime, anytime, love him to death. But I think right now he's at the moment where he has to work. He is forced to work because there's no money. So you have to have money, but you're still 20. You're just 20, and the whole life is ahead of you. And I just want to plant that seed in his head that you don't have to work that work. You can try a million different jobs before you find yourself. Because he found that what he does right now, it's not exactly the purpose of life and it does not make him happy. But he needs to expand his bubble to see other experiences, to see other countries and people and everything, and then decide what he wants to do. It doesn't have to be if he cannot do it otherwise, like, I want to do this and I'll pursue it, then try a million things and then. Joanne Lockwood: Pick one that's so powerful, you can have a million different jobs. You can have a million different lives. That is so true. And I think often we're told we have to make a decision and stick with it. Actually, no, we can try something out and say at any point, I'm free, I can change, I don't need to be living by some rule. I can find my own freedom, find my own direction. So that's very powerful. It's a great takeaway. Ryals: It's the hardest to do when the only people that influence you are your parents, because you're still little and your parents tell you that. Find a job, make money, be safe, stick to it, don't change anything. And when you grow up with that, every day, you're hearing that, of course your body is going to be like, wait, so is that true? Do I have to live by that truth? What if that does not make me happy? Do I still have to stick to it? And it's hard. Even if you have a person or you find a person who tells you otherwise, you actually can follow your dreams, you actually can do whatever you want. If you don't have a dream, you'll find one. But look for it. Don't go for less. If it does not make you happy. If it does, oh, please stay. Like, you don't have to feel pressured that you have to do everything in the world. If staying in a small town, doing a small thing, makes you happy, please do. That is incredible. If it does make you happy, don't feel pressured. Never. I always. Your version of happy is the important thing. You're happy Joanne Lockwood: with what you're doing. Ask yourself, what is it Ryals: that's making you happy? And then I said, don't listen to other people who tell you otherwise. It helped me. People will tell you always only something from their own perspective, from their own unaccomplishment or their own jealousy or something. People who made it, actually, or people who are happy going to tell you, just do what makes you happy. They're not going to tell you, stick with one job. They're not going to tell you, you have to do something. I think when you Joanne Lockwood: meet someone who's truly happy, you don't always realise that that person has been unhappy a fair few times to find out what makes them happy eventually. And that you don't always find happiness first time. But you've got to have the strength and courage to keep exploring your own happiness and to keep looking for it. Don't settle if it's not making you happy, but you're right. When you find it, enjoy it. Be there. Yes. Definitely Ryals: realise that that's the thing that makes you happy. Keep it until it does. If it doesn't, carry on, don't be afraid doing it. Get on that plane. Get on that plane. Joanne Lockwood: Please find a new life. Please do. Well, we've spent over an hour together before the show, we were chatting away as well. And no doubt we'll probably chat some more before we hang up. But I mean, that's been amazing. It's been really great to get to know you, to learn about the person, the man behind the text, the words, the songs. I found your website, which is riles official. It's Ryals official, and I've just been on it. I'm having a look. It's got your album cover there or your song cover. You can listen to the track and you can download it, buy it, got behind the scenes so people can find out more about you as well. And it's some great stuff there. So, yeah, if you're listening, visit milesofficial.com. It'll be in the show notes. And you're big on Instagram as well. Have you got an Instagram account as well? Yes, it's Ryals Ryals: official as well. Made it clear my friend was joking about it. It's like, oh, you're official now. Totally am. Ryals, that's your married name. Is Joanne Lockwood: it official? Is your married. Oh, yeah, now it's all official. Ryals: It's not playing around. Yes, please find me on Instagram, and if you have any questions or just want to share your story, please do. I always try to answer everybody. I love getting to know new people, and I have so many people around the world that started as like, oh, hi, I love your pictures, too. Right now it's like, how's your career going? I'm asking them or they're asking me, and just like, chatting about life and their experiences, their pain so much. And we are so different, but so the same. It's crazy how we are. And if we speak the language of love or kindness, we're totally the same and going through the same things. And I love, love getting to know people from each and every part of the world that makes it so our huge planet, cosy and small. Looking at the website, Joanne Lockwood: I mean, there's some really powerful photographs of you on stage, some beautiful lighting, beautiful costumes, and you look incredible in all of them. Thank Ryals: you. If nothing else, go and just cheque Joanne Lockwood: out Ryan's abs. Ryals: Oh, my God. Thank you. It's some great shots there. Joanne Lockwood: So, yeah, listen to the music, follow bites on Instagram and cheque out Ryles website. There's some great artistic talent there. It looks like you've been in cats or something because you're wearing a furry suit in one of the shots. There's some great stuff there, so go and cheque it out. So Miles, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, audience. Thank you for listening. Thank you for staying with us. A huge thank you for getting this far. It's been inspirational for myself. So if you're listening, please do subscribe to keep updated on future episodes of the inclusion bites podcast. That's B-I-T-E-S. Tell your friends, tell your colleagues, and ask them to subscribe as well. I've got a number of other exciting guests lined up that surely be equally inspired by over the next few weeks and months. And of course, if you'd like to be a guest, if you're listening in, you'd like to take part, then please do. You don't have to be a global music superstar to come on the show. You could have a dream, you could be finding your happiness and you want to share that. So I welcome any suggestions or feedback you may have to jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk. Co, UK. Tell me about future shows. Tell me how we can improve. So, finally, all this to say is, my name is Joanne Lockwood and it's been an absolute pleasure to be your host today for this podcast. Catch you next time. Bye.