--- title: "Belonging Beyond Borders" episode: 203 date: 2026-04-03 guest: "Solveiga Jaskunas" canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/203-belonging-beyond-borders audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-203/audio.mp3 --- # Belonging Beyond Borders Joanne Lockwood is joined by HR consultant and keynote speaker Solveiga Jaskunas to explore what “belonging beyond borders” looks like when you build a life and career in a new country. Solveiga shares her journey from Lithuania to the United States, including the early shock of navigating hiring processes, interviews, and everyday communication while being judged through the lens of accent and assumptions about competence. They unpack how language barriers and stereotypes can crush confidence, and how imposter feelings can follow even after years of success. The conversation moves from personal experience into practical workplace realities: what organisations get wrong about immigrant and expat talent, how recruiting practices can exclude people before they’re even heard, and why visibility matters—especially when few people in HR and leadership roles “sound like” the communities they claim to include. Solveiga reflects on mentoring, building community outside familiar circles, and intentionally stepping into rooms where discomfort becomes a catalyst for growth. They also touch on the current climate of political polarisation and how it can make it feel less safe to speak openly, particularly for people without citizenship status. The episode closes with a call to amplify immigrant voices, reframe difference as value, and take deliberate action to create workplaces where more people can belong and thrive. ## Chapters - 00:00 — Introduction to Inclusion Bites - 03:58 — Struggling to adapt abroad - 08:44 — First impressions of Berlin - 10:47 — Early travels and student days - 15:30 — Stepping out of your comfort zone - 19:31 — Reflecting on immigrant identity - 21:29 — Highlighting immigrant experiences in HR - 26:14 — Feeling at home in two countries - 29:22 — Adjusting to Russian interviews - 31:18 — Addressing bias in recruitment - 34:40 — Starting to share on LinkedIn - 38:21 — Sharing experiences from the Soviet Union - 43:28 — Sharing a photo with Biden - 46:49 — Feeling unsafe amidst societal shifts - 48:37 — Importance of open conversations - 52:36 — Embracing and sharing immigrant pride - 55:34 — Closing thoughts and gratitude ## Key takeaways - The realities of navigating professional and personal identity as an immigrant or expat in a new country. - How language barriers and accent bias impact confidence and career progression. - The role of vulnerability and mentorship in building self-efficacy and community. - Why imposter syndrome uniquely affects internationally mobile talent and actionable strategies to address it. - The organisational blind spots that perpetuate exclusion, and solutions to foster an authentically inclusive culture. - The shifting global sociopolitical climate and its effect on psychological safety and belonging. - How visibility and diverse representation in leadership and HR catalyse systemic change and empower others to follow. ## FAQs ### What challenges do immigrants and expats face in building a sense of belonging in a new country? Immigrants and expats commonly experience a profound sense of displacement when moving to a new country. Challenges include linguistic differences, accent bias, lack of professional networks, and cultural unfamiliarity. Slvika Just Kounas shared that initial struggles included not receiving interview callbacks, feeling isolated, and facing overt questioning of her language abilities and value as a professional 05:08. Overcoming these obstacles often requires time, emotional resilience, and a shift in self-perception, focusing on personal progress rather than external validation 14:33. ### How does accent and language proficiency affect opportunities and experiences in the workplace? Accents and language proficiency significantly impact immigrants’ experiences, from employment opportunities to workplace integration. Slvika Just Kounas recounted that, despite holding advanced degrees, her accent led to premature interview dismissals and comments about her suitability for roles 05:23. She emphasised that organisational biases can result in undervaluing candidates whose English is not “perfect”, influencing hiring decisions and professional growth 31:18. ### How can organisations become more inclusive of immigrants, expats, and refugees? Organisations should actively dismantle stereotypes and biases against those from differing linguistic and cultural backgrounds. This involves: Forming diverse recruitment panels, Providing internal support, mentorship, and representation, Actively valuing diverse voices and experiences, including from those with accents, Creating pathways and encouragement for career advancement and public visibility—such as speaking, presenting, and leadership roles 32:27. Organisations must also address internal barriers, such as imposter syndrome, which immigrants frequently internalise due to repeated rejection or lack of relatable role models. ### Is there a stigma associated with the term “immigrant”? How do labels affect identity? Discussion around the terminology “immigrant” versus “expat” or “foreigner” revealed underlying social hierarchies and biases. In the US context, “immigrant” often carries negative connotations, sometimes associated with undocumented migration, whereas "expat" is perceived as more privileged 20:47. Slvika Just Kounas insists that neither label should diminish one’s value—being an immigrant is not a mark of deficiency, but rather speaks to resilience and diversity of experience 21:43. ### How does imposter syndrome manifest for immigrants and how can it be addressed? Imposter syndrome for immigrants often stems from repeated experiences of exclusion, linguistic hurdles, and cultural unfamiliarity—it can deter individuals from seeking visible roles or leadership positions 33:27. Slvika Just Kounas highlighted the importance of intentionally stepping into uncomfortable spaces and seeking mentoring relationships with established leaders to challenge self-imposed limitations and build confidence 16:55. ### How has political polarisation and changing social climates affected immigrants' sense of safety and voice? Both Joanne Lockwood and Slvika Just Kounas recognised a recent shift towards a less open, more hostile environment for immigrants and minorities due to political polarisation, increased populism and anti-immigration rhetoric 48:37. This has prompted some to exercise greater caution in public discourse or advocacy, weighing personal and familial safety against the drive to speak out 41:43. ## Transcript Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world without Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 203 with the title Belonging Beyond Borders. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Solveiga Jaskunas, Solveiga is an international keynote speaker and HR consultant who helps immigrants and expats thrive at work by turning lived experience into practical human centred inclusion. When I asked Salviga to describe her superpower, she said that it is leading with hope, compassion and vulnerability. Hello Solveiga, welcome to the show. Hello Jo. Solveiga Jaskunas: It's incredible to be here with you. Like, we had several communications over LinkedIn and now it's nice to meet you in person finally. We did and I think it was almost a year Joanne Lockwood: coming from a year since you originally applied to be on the show and it's taken us, well, 11 months to finally connect and be here today. So this is fascinating. Yeah, it is. And you have Solveiga Jaskunas: incredible conversations. I totally love them. Joanne Lockwood: I'm guessing from your accent that you are not born and bred in the USA because you're currently living in Washington D.C. you've started off your life in a different part of the world. Yeah, so I am originally Solveiga Jaskunas: from Lithuania, Eastern Europe and then, yeah, I lived in the States for more than 20 years already. Joanne Lockwood: So for some time, Lithuania, it's part of the Baltics. It's the southernmost, western, southwestern most Baltic, isn't it? So you've got Tallinn. Tallinn, yeah. If it's the capital of Solveiga Jaskunas: Estonia and Vilnius. Yes. You got. You've got Vilnius and Joanne Lockwood: capital of Lithuania and you've got the Estonia and you've also got the Latvia. What's the other Baltic? Latvia. That's it, Riga, in fact. Latvia. Yeah. Sorry, my mind went blank. It's a beautiful part of the world. I've spent time in all three of the Baltics and the architecture, the people, the culture is a fascinating place to be, isn't it? Yeah, Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah. It's quiet, you know, it's different than the state. It's more peaceful, quiet. There's a lot of like beautiful nature. I like it. And yes, Vilnius, it's a very beautiful city. I studied via. It's an intense like cultural life, but it's also small and it is easy to get around. Joanne Lockwood: So you moved to the US twenty something years ago as you said. How did you find that initially? Because you said you came from a very small, insular country. Everyone knows each other. Literally they almost do know each other to a big place like Washington D.C. where you're kind of lost in the hustle and bustle of the year. Yeah, I think, you know, it's Solveiga Jaskunas: not about the size of the city, but it's more like was hard because you live here, as you mentioned, everything you're familiar, you love. And then you come to the place where you suddenly you don't have friends. You don't know how long it will take you to find friends. Initially, when he had a degree in industrial psychology, I was not getting a single phone call. And when I started getting phone calls or interviews after I started getting my second master degree, my interview experience was really sometimes was worse than not getting a job because when your interview ends after first question or like your voicemails doesn't get written, you, you don't at that point, like I didn't know even how to compete. Even like such like when I travelled in Europe, I, I thought my English is quite okay. Like even I was in Britain and people in Britain are very used to people from other countries and they will say oh, like please repeat if you don't understand. Or they say, oh, your English is so good, you know. Please continue speaking. And then when I came to the States, this is where my confidence I think got crushed because some people will walk away and they say like I, I didn't understand a single thing you said. And I said at that point you think you didn't, you know, like I knew that I have an accent but. Or like they will say I don't know how you got hired. You know, your English just, I cannot understand, bring somebody else. So things like that makes you like, yeah, like you, you, you suddenly start questioning and of course it's very hard to change your accent, it's very hard to change how you speak. And even you work, the progress doesn't happen right away. So. And even now, like, as you can see, like I've lived for many years and I still make mistakes and probably I'll make till the rest of my life because sometimes you get used to say certain way things and pronounce certain way and it's hard to change. Joanne Lockwood: So which language is Lithuanian most like? Is it more like Finnish? Is it more like Russian? Where's it derived from? It's similar only to Solveiga Jaskunas: Latvian. It's a Baltic language group, so it's very different from others. And yeah, I speak Russian because I had to learn at school. We are part of a Soviet Union, so we had no choice, but it was a very difficult language because very different and I think the most similar to Sanskrit. We say, like everybody who studies Sanskrit, we study Lithuanian and Latvian because it's the most similar. Joanne Lockwood: So it's not even closely related to. To Estonian or to Latvia. It's just Lithuania. Solveiga Jaskunas: It used to be Prussian too, but that language disappeared. So now we have just two small countries and. Yeah, wow. So you mentioned there you grew up in that Joanne Lockwood: era, pre Berlin Wall, I guess, falling down and the Solidarity movement in Poland, all of that kind of era in the 80s. So how was that for you growing up as a young person in that world? Yeah, so like it was Solveiga Jaskunas: definitely very exciting to get independence. I remember that time and yes, sometimes I don't know if I would even know the. I knew that, you know, what we are getting is propaganda. But what I didn't know, I have a real event stories about my own family or about my country because people were afraid to speak or share. So I find out like for example, that my best friend's father was in Siberia for 20 years only, you know, during independence movement because nobody talked about those things. I didn't know that my uncle was in KGB prison and when he came back, like nobody then could recognise him. But I found out I even didn't know what KGB is growing up. Nobody talked about it. And so you knew that, you know that. Yes, we are not, you know, people say, oh, you live in the best country in the world. We knew that people in the west live better but. But we didn't know that. I didn't know even like what Lithuanian flag was. I didn't know the history of my country, my family history. So a lot of things we find out in independence movement. And yes, I remember my first trip to Berlin. Actually Berlin was the first city in the West I visited and it was shocking to see how different it was at that time comparing to Vilnius at The time was no renovations for 50 years. And it was shocking to see it. And when I came back, I remember how sad Vilnius looked to me and I thought it will never look as the rest of European cities because it was Nothing renovated for 50 years, was falling apart, was very grey and dark. And I thought, oh, this is the city I love so much. But it looks so different from the west. And yeah, it's beautiful to see that the changes. And I thought it will never happen in my lifetime. And now like, you know, like when I go back, I think it looks as, as beautiful as many other European capitals. And. And maybe in like some ways it's more unique because it has this still imperfection and. And that is also the beauty of it. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I think I was there in about 2007 and it, to me it seemed like a very vibrant culture. Didn't feel, it didn't feel like any deprivation or anything like that. I. Cause I remember being in Hungary at Budapest in about 2000. No, to about 1996. 97. And that seemed very, very backward to me at the time. The hotel was really felt like I would imagine a Soviet era hotel was. There was no. There was no comfort. The mattresses were like 2 inches thick and the really hard beds, everything was like tiles and hardwood and nothing soft. It was very, very square and boxy though. I guess the world had moved on in that in 10, 15 years since I was in Hungary. So yeah, I guess the Baltics also developed quite quickly once they found their freedom. Yeah, yeah, Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah, yeah, definitely it was. And it's really amazing to see all the changes here happened and not only, you know, how the cities look, but also how people like, you know, see opportunities and the whole culture change in so many good ways. I really like it. And yes, I. Talking about Berlin, I remember our first trip and as a student we got to go to the camp in Germany and we got money for it, train tickets and a hotel. But at that time for us that money was so big and so we decided, four of us, that no way we can spend money for the hotel. We'll go and find ways to be. Because we needed money. So yeah, it was an interesting trip. Going to a city in a country we never been before and, and figuring out like what we are going, you know, exploring basically city through all day, night and the next day till we've been one to the camp. And in some ways it was one most memorable trips because yes, you experience it all time. But yeah, like I, I would now like, you know, I wouldn't think, you know, to travel that way. But at that time, you know, we had this recession and as a student we didn't have money and it was for us way to travel and see the world and we made it work. Why did you pick the US and Washington Joanne Lockwood: as your destination or did you try lots of different places before you settled? Not so many other Solveiga Jaskunas: places I just visited or travelled. My husband is American so we met in Lithuania and Vilnius. Like we end up in the States. Joanne Lockwood: So you, you travel for love? Yes, it's. It Solveiga Jaskunas: happened. We met in Lithuania and then said let's, let's get check out and checking out, you know, sounds, sounds good. But being an immigrant is not the same. So we called Joanne Lockwood: this episode belonging beyond borders. And we talked very early in the introduction of how that sense of belonging, it must be really hard to go from a culture and a language that you've grown up with. Even though you had to transition from the pre Soviet into the post Soviet era and see the country develop, you're still moving to the us which is a completely different culture, not knowing anybody where you're. Whilst you can speak English really well, you don't speak English. As a native American or a native English speaker, how did you find that lack of belonging and how did you move into that sort of sense where you started to feel comfortable again? So it definitely is a Solveiga Jaskunas: journey. Like I tell everybody, like I mentored a lot of immigrants as well. It doesn't happen right away. And in some ways that experience definitely challenges you in so many different ways. But also and definitely humbles because yeah, you, yeah, there are many days that yeah, you don't know if you ever will be able to compete. I think what changed for me, like a lot of different things, but what it helped me first like, you know, you know, been talking about the interviews. At some point I thought I will not get a job and was like really difficult. As I mentioned, experience when you go and you see that people are not interested in you right away as you start talking. And at that point I realised that I don't care here if I get a job. I just want to get better and more comfortable in, in the interviews. And I started instead going to every interview and think about how I can do better next time. And I start comparing my own progress to where I was, you know, you know, month ago. And then when you start seeing progress, it changes and then you also stop paying attention what other people think about you because you think about yourself and start see room progress. What also helped Me really, especially in the last few years, I thought I'm already quite confident. And then I was challenged to be visible and to do speaking and being visible on the social media. And I realised how much I still had that imposter syndrome about myself that I didn't even realise. And I've learned how helpful it was for me to be more in the rooms where I feel don't belong. In the past I felt more comfortable going to be in the places maybe to be a lot of other immigrants where people could resonate experiences or language is not the same. But I've learned how was useful for me to go to the rooms where the less comfortable I was, the more value I got it. For example, in those recent years, I would go to the meeting and I would think, okay, here this person the most maybe, I don't know, strongest leader in the room and the most accomplished the person probably will never get back to me or even on the social media. I will think, okay, who's the person maybe is likely for me to respond? And I will reach out to the people very accomplished, the people who maybe will never respond to me and ask for the conversation. And I've learned, you know, how helpful for me was those conversations and most mentoring sessions where they suddenly pushed me out of a comfort zone who said, like you have to be visible, you have to be speaking speaker for a leader and influencer. And I said, well, that is not for me. And then they say why? And then they tell why. You know, I said like I, I just don't like it. And, and now I've realised and now they said I met with the same mentors at Silicon Valley. Look, you are doing everything that you thought that is not for you. And I've learned, you know, how, yes, it's, it's helpful for me was to challenge my own comfort zone and to, to get to know people who think and act differently, who don't say, like to do only this thing. Think big, act big, speak big, be bold. What you're saying there about the Joanne Lockwood: imposter syndrome and the have just forced yourself out of your comfort zone and move out of the. If you like the comfort of being with the expat community, with people who kind of share in the same problem. I can certainly relate to that because I've been tHRough that phase in my life where you can hold yourself back by living in comfort, can't you? And when we, when we're judging people or judging ourselves and I think when you talk about imposter syndrome, there Your reference model of who you are doesn't evolve very quickly because it's always on your tail. So you have to, you have to jump, almost jump out of your comfort zone in order to see those changes. And then you look back over your shoulder and think, wow, I've come a long way. But day by day you don't feel like you've changed. It's really interesting what you say about the interviews, where you are going to each interview looking to do better than last time, preparing to do better next time and eventually that would pay off and you, you'd. That confidence would shine tHRough, wouldn't it? Yeah. And Solveiga Jaskunas: it helped me not only, you know, and feel better because I just, you know, stop paying attention, you know, what other people think, but also helped me all to help better others. Now, like I help a lot of other people in interviews because I start giving different examples and seeing what will resonate. I got better, but I also start paying attention when I start interviewing others. I've realised how many other people, especially like immigrants or expats, they make the same mistake as I do. They don't really tell them, tell the storeys, they talk too much, too little, don't give a good examples, don't give examples at all and, and so on. So it helped me to help others better. And yes, I got better myself. So how do you find Joanne Lockwood: the US as a society? Is it, is it welcoming? I mean, I see a lot on the news and the media about political discourse at the moment. How does it feel being a. I don't want this word to sound derogatory, but an immigrant, but I guess that's who you are. How does it feel being in the country right now with your, with your background, status? So I think, you Solveiga Jaskunas: know, this is, in some ways it inspired me, the conversations like, so when I search non private conversations, nobody. I say all the time I'm immigrant. People don't say anything. When I start speaking about immigrant experiences, my first podcast, people start asking me questions like, why do you even call myself an immigrant at that time? Like, you know, for me it was strange, you know, and I said, how come you know, I'm an immigrant? So some people say, you live here for so many years, why do you still call yourself an immigrant? Or like, why do you call yourself an immigrant when you are like, you know, having your own consultancy? And I say, well, when I was making $7 per hour, then I was an immigrant and now like, I'm not anymore. Or like they will say some also valid points like they will say look, Americans who live in your country don't call them, call themselves expatriates. So why do you call yourself an immigrant if you live in the States and, and, and and so on or like that you don't look like an immigrant. And they said look how look immigrant looks like. And, and then they say well in America immigrants looks like ones who cross in Mexico border. And I said well I cross different border. And for me immigrants know coming from all around the world. And, and so yeah, it was interesting and that's why I've realised that even this or like I, I told I help other immigrants and I say why do you call other people immigrants? And I realised well yeah, maybe it's true. Like some people don't like to be called immigrants. We like to be called expats or foreigners. And but yeah, like I, in some ways that inspired the conversation because I found that being an immigrant was definitely challenging experience. Definitely you don't feel welcome all the time. There is a lot of now thoughts about these good immigrants or bad immigrants. Well, for me it's like, you know, it's just being immigrant doesn't make you bad or good. It makes your, it's challenging but it doesn't make you a good or bad person. And so yeah, like that's what inspired. Because I wanted to show that being immigrant does not diminish your, your value actually it expands your world, it expands your perspective. I want it also like when I start speaking a lot of other people say please be a voice for us because we never have a consultant or speaker who sounds like us in HR. And I realised, yeah, a lot of even conferences I go, nobody talks about immigrant experiences and nobody. There are not so many people who have accents and from other countries, especially in HR. So I felt like in some ways I, it, you know. Yeah, it's, it's, it's important conversation and that's why I started, you know, considering because I felt very passionate about it. So would you class Joanne Lockwood: yourself? You know, in this pHRase you use a good immigrant as opposed to someone maybe who's from Central America or Southern America might be framed more as a bad immigrant in the language. Do you have privilege by being from a, from a good country? Is that that how you would say it? I don't Solveiga Jaskunas: know. It's, it's, it's, it's a privilege. Maybe it is, but it's also like I just don't like altogether this classification because it's altogether America is, is based on. Most people are immigrants at Some point. Most not. You know, there are very few who would consider themselves natives from native backgrounds. It's, It's. There is a beauty of it, you know, food and culture. That's what I think makes America so unique because of a diversity of people and different generations of immigrants that brought so much value to it. So it's. Yeah, I don't agree and show. Like, it was interesting initially when I start, you know, speaking, I thought that only immigrants will relate to what I talk. But then suddenly people from all kind backgrounds say this conversation is important. They say I was not. I felt like an immigrant in my own country, so I have disability and you don't. But language can feel like disability. So understand that it's important people with disability. I also felt like I don't belong. I face different stereotypes than you, but it's still stereotypes. Consider that, you know, every. What you talk, it applies to so many people. It's not only for immigrants. And this is how I feel like, you know, it's important more talking about experiences, what it's like, you know, to adjust, belong, overcome challenges, be more sensitive to others. Do you call yourself Joanne Lockwood: American now, or do you still see yourself as an expat immigrant? Are you American? Yeah, well, I know. I think I still Solveiga Jaskunas: consider myself Lithuanian, living in the States, like, yeah, when I land, you know, when I go back to Lithuania, I don't consider myself immigrants in my own country, depending where I am. But I also appreciate experience. I appreciate that a lot. So Joanne Lockwood: do you have an American passport now? No, I don't. I. Solveiga Jaskunas: I'm a permanent resident because Lithuania doesn't allow dual citizenship. And that is the reason I don't want to be a foreigner in. In my own country, so I don't. Joanne Lockwood: Okay, so you'd have to renounce your Lithuanian citizenship in order to get American. So. And that's important to you to hold on to that? Well, I think it's. It's. It's important, you know, Solveiga Jaskunas: to my heart. Like, you know, we fight for independence so long. It was very emotional to get Lithuanian passport for me. So it's like, it's dear to my heart that. Yes, you know, you don't want to be like a foreigner in your own country, too. Joanne Lockwood: No, no, I get that. Because if you're not careful, you. You end up belonging to nowhere and. Well, it. Yes, Solveiga Jaskunas: yes. Yeah, it could be. Yeah. So you've built Joanne Lockwood: your life with your husband and you built your business, and you've done this. Have you found that sense of belonging now? Do you get to the point where whilst you have your Lithuanian passport, you feel as American as you can be. Solveiga Jaskunas: I, I definitely, you know, definitely now feel comfortable. In some ways I probably never considered opportunities. And in some ways in both places in Lithuania, in the States, I feel I belong. And in some ways there are things that I also don't belong as much. I don't know both ways. There are situations that you change and you think differently and you act differently. And it was funny last time I went to Lithuania, my friend said, solvega, you think us like American, you changed. And I said, what do you mean? Like I didn't. And they say no, you, you did. You, when you talk of you, you think every, everything is possible. And I've realised, you know, these few years, you know, I had these mentors who always say you can do it, you can do it. And I start doing things that I never considered before. Like speaking that was extremely hard. And yeah, like now I, when other people say I cannot, I said no, did you try like you can do it. So, so yeah, maybe, maybe I'm changing. Yes. Which language do you think in? Do you think in Lithuania or do Joanne Lockwood: you think in English? I think, I think in both. I don't know. It Solveiga Jaskunas: comes natural in both. What Joanne Lockwood: about if you have to to add up a sum in your head, if you're counting and adding up numbers, what do you add up in your head? Yeah, that is a Solveiga Jaskunas: good question. Well, some things, yes. I think it's more comfortable in Lithuanian, but I switch back and forward and I don't think anymore. No. Okay. I just one thing I've realised sometimes when I start speaking of somebody in Russian because I speak Russian as well, I somehow like it doesn't switch back sometimes because it's also a foreign language. But from Lithuanian in English it's easy. Okay, so Russian is the hard one. Yeah, yeah, Russian. I, I'm, I'm fluent actually. Maybe my Russian pronunciation is, is better than English, but I, you know, I, I, but yeah, I'm good too I guess. Joanne Lockwood: Lithuanian and Russian, whilst they're different languages, they, to some extent, sound very similar in the way you pronounce words. And your, your accent sounds more Russian to me than it does English. So I guess you would probably feel more accepted from a native speaking Russian perspective than maybe a native speaking English. I don't know. Do you think you do people tell you that? Could they tell you're not native Russian? Solveiga Jaskunas: No, they will tell that I'm not native. They will tell it but they will say my Russian is very good. This is what they will tell. And it wasn't, actually it got better in the States. I spent spoke more Russian in the states than in Latvia. Is that because you're helping or working with people who Joanne Lockwood: are expat Russian as well? No, my first job in Solveiga Jaskunas: the States was working with refugees and I had to interview Russian speaking refugees and my first sentence I remember was always saying sorry, I'm from Lithuania and my Russian is not native. And I was mixing English words. Lithuanian Russians was hard and then like after a month became easy. It was interesting because I understood Russian everything I just didn't speak so much. And so when I started speaking it, it became like English. I. I don't see the progress and of Russian was. Was really big progress, fast like was hard and then suddenly became easy. So do you think Joanne Lockwood: you'll ever get to the point where there. So you already mentioned that when you go back to your friends, they say you're speaking thinking like an American here. Do you think you'll get to the point where Lithuania seems like a foreign country to you? Does it? Or does it some in some respects feel that way already. No, when I go back it's always Solveiga Jaskunas: so nice. It feels very calm and Joanne Lockwood: relaxed and yeah, it feels like going home. Yes, Solveiga Jaskunas: it feels like going home even. Yes, I definitely probably lost some friends and I don't have as. As many friends as I used to have some, you know, you. Yes, it's relationship changes over time too because you don't see people as much. I think that is the hardest part, you know, living abroad, that you know, your relationship changes. But going back as always feels very special and very nice. So what, what do organisations need to think about when they're Joanne Lockwood: working with people who are immigrants, expats, refugees, however you want to describe people at their various stages in life. What are the stereotypes, what are the things that organisations leaders need to be aware of about real people? Yeah, so I think, you know, there are a few things Solveiga Jaskunas: that you need to be aware like of course, you know, thinking about those external stereotypes that suddenly resumes automatically get rejected because if people assume that your experience is not relevant, your education is not relevant, your English maybe not good, even the interviews or you know, when having that interview, you know, like feeling that it's okay to. If you have somebody who's maybe not English is good, just finish your interview after first question. I think nobody should have that type of experience because it's already going, you know, to the interviews. It's very painful to have all the rejections, but when you, when you feel that, you know, you're suddenly treated differently, it's even harder. Yeah, like, I think having diverse recruiting teams, having a consultant and trainers who also have like an accent and speak not perfect English, it's, it's okay because you almost empower, like your employees. You don't say, oh, like we value diversity. But then suddenly you, you don't have any trainers, you don't have any recruiters, you don't have anybody who sounds like that in each other. And it's, I think that is, is, you know, can be one thing, but a lot of, I think organisations don't do any work or think about that. Many immigrants expats develop that imposter syndrome that suddenly you, you don't yourself consider opportunities that you think they are not for you. So, for example, like, I, I never consider space speaking. And speaking was for me probably even more challenging because I had also this fear of public speaking. So it was not only accent, but fear also. I suddenly started stumbling over the words of stuttering. So that was another thing. But I've learned that even some people, yeah, many immigrants don't consider speaking or even doing videos on LinkedIn or creating your brand because it's, it feels uncomfortable. You do a video and then suddenly you think you will not get hired because you make mistakes. So organisations need to help the employees to show the value of a diverse perspective, diverse voices, and to show that this is what makes you unique and this is what makes you, and this is what makes you stand out. And so yet to work both external and internal barriers, because I don't know at least a single person who didn't start having this imposter syndrome. Moving the new country. Joanne Lockwood: America, as we said earlier, is a very cosmopolitan country made up of people from many different backgrounds. I believe that Spanish is almost like the most common language in the US at the moment. You've got Hebrew with the Jewish community. You've got other prevalent languages. French, German, Italian. Everyone wants to be Italian in, in America, I believe. Yes, one of those heritages. There are, there are lots of diverse languages. Do you feel that you stand out still in this cosmopolitan world? In Washington, D.C. is a pretty cosmopolitan area with lots of different communities and languages. Well, it's, it's Solveiga Jaskunas: in, in the workplace. But at the time, you know, when I did my first podcast and I totally hate it, I just didn't even wanted to share because I saw how uncomfortable I was, you could tell it, how unclearly I was speaking. And I wanted, you know, to project confidence with zero confidence. And at the time when people start reaching out to me and say, please continue this conversation, it's so important. I realised at the time I had about 1,000 connections on LinkedIn and only two immigrants whom I knew at that time were doing videos on social media and both of them had perfect English and very confident. And I've realised that a lot of other people felt like the same as me. And yes, you definitely even myself, you know, like I would put this video and I would say is it helps me, maybe other people like it, but does it help me? Now I see that the people who not hired me, they would not hire me anyway. And the people who actually other people opposite opportunities came because I start putting videos and starting getting invited to the conferences and events because. Yeah, yeah, you still. And, and, and I think also a lot of even Americans, you know, the people who put videos, the ones who speak very, very well. And then suddenly I put something and. And then I stop in the middle sentence, stumble. I don't know. Like. But people actually, it's. Yeah, you stand out, you know, just this makes you who I am. Like in the past, in fact prevented. Now I see that makes me still different. I think Joanne Lockwood: anyone who speaks multiple languages, certainly fluently in multiple languages, has a gift that I don't have. I do speak a little bit of French and petit peu très lentement. Yeah, slow and a little. I do a little bit of German, enough to order some food in a restaurant, maybe even less Spanish I can pick up and maybe understand some of it, but I certainly couldn't speak Lithuanian, I certainly couldn't speak Russian, apart from the Hollywood stuff that you pick up and swear words and those sort of things. So I think what we have to. What I appreciate is the skill you have in speaking multiple languages. A skill I don't have. It doesn't make you less intelligent, as far as I can say. It makes you more intelligent, more capable because you're having to double think and translate and do this all on the fly and still sound interesting, intelligent and articulate and everything and trying to keep. Communicate your message. So I would say what you have is a greater superpower than someone who doesn't speak more than one language just because you've had to adapt. I think that's a very powerful skill you have and it's underappreciated, undervalued. Yeah. And Solveiga Jaskunas: it's. And yes, you mentioned you live in Washington D.C. one of the most diverse cities, and yet, you know, in some neighbourhoods it's it's not like that too. Like, I worked in a charter school in a Black neighbourhood in D.C. and then suddenly all the students starting me asking if I'm new Spanish teacher. And I realised there are only a few foreigners there and there are Spanish teachers. And this is where I told, you know, my boss, can I go and teach the class about my own country. And I never had as interested, you know, I thought like, just to talk about 15 minutes. But the first sentence, the first thing I said at the beginning, I grew up in the Soviet Union and do you know what it is? And the kids didn't know, and the kids didn't know anything. And then this is where like, what I cannot tell about my school if the kids don't know what it is. And I never saw the kids so interested. If you ask like really good questions. So how women are treated in your country and how people different than you are treated in your country and what things you do. And. And the best part was like, after, like the teacher told that the kids start being interested in other countries and they said, like, you open the wall for those kids, the window to the world. And the kids starting later stopping me in the corridor saying, I'm doing a research about your country. And I thought, how cool is that? I realised, yes, we live in Washington D.C. one most diverse cities in the world. And yet in some neighbourhoods, the kids in those neighbourhoods, neighbourhoods Faran know not so much immigrants and definitely not so many white immigrants. And. And for many of them I was the first Eastern European who knew it. And for them then it was very fascinating my experience and I think many people, yeah, even that for me at that time I realised that suddenly that class that I just thought to tell about myself turned out like almost in about the cultures and about diversity and about belonging. Joanne Lockwood: So as I introduce you, you're an international keynote speaker. So do you speak across the world or in America or online? Where do you speak? Yes, I speak on. Yeah, Solveiga Jaskunas: they had in person and online events just a year and a half ago. Everywhere I applied I got rejected and then I got invited to my first conference Expat Women Conference and then from via people liked and I got invited to Global HR Conference in Lithuania, MindedTech, GSX, Society of Human Resource Management and yes, even interesting, like even this month. Yeah, I have few podcasts and two of them from Britain and one of them person I thought was from Switzerland, one American living in Chile. So it's interesting how when I started speaking I got to know people from all around the world. And events also like some of them global events too. Joanne Lockwood: We're living in a funny time at the moment politically polarised. People have opinions about people. People have opinions about immigrants and as you we mentioned earlier, good immigrants, bad immigrants and those sort of phrases but we've got wars going on in the world at the moment and Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Middle east, rise of Islamophobia, rise of anti Semitism, all these kind of things. Are you able to add your voice into those conversations as someone has a different outside perspective? Because I know many Americans that stereotype of generalising here tend a very insular view of the world not too worldly in some of their experiences. Yeah it's something. It's just Solveiga Jaskunas: became a little like less safe to talk about different issues especially being you know not a citizen, being a permanent resident because yeah it's feels less safe. It feels. Yeah you can get more attacked and you. Is it worth it? Is it worth it? And also yeah you may be called like anti American and I think if it's also like worth it. I start. I still speak like for example I. I've recently talked about misinformation, disinformation and propaganda is. It is quite political topic and I brought about getting brainwashed myself Growing up in the Soviet regime and connected to today's time I decided not to talk about mention any names or anything but I talked about the importance of protecting journalists and freedom of speech and standing for people who during very difficult job providing fact checking facts and it's our responsibility to stand out and so but yeah like. So I bring it as as much as I can but I also seeing that sometimes I need to protect myself as well. This makes sense. Yeah you have to look at Joanne Lockwood: what is your role in the world I suppose and sometimes it's not your fight or not your voice or. And you have your own as you say safety to look after both and your family I guess as well. So yeah it's. We can't all speak without consequence, can we? Yeah even Solveiga Jaskunas: like you know some topics, you know like yes it's. It's. It's hard like I definitely speak I think more than other people do I share more things but yeah I'll probably John like I'll give you like one example. So I in my previous jobs came Biden and I had a picture of Biden and one day I had. I just wanted to do this post and about pictures of famous people was not even political it's about picture of famous people and I had wanted to share Biden because I thought, well, this is the most powerful person in the States I made, you know, he's now president. And, and it's not that, you know, he's, you know, maybe the most likeable. I don't know, like, it's not like that. I, I like everything about him, but it's still like, you know, it's a picture of a famous person. And I showed the picture for my both of my kids and my kids said, no way you can post this post. And I say, how come, you know, it's nothing political? He said, no, don't, don't do that. It's just everybody will see it as a political cause. Whilst also was presidential elections coming up. And then I asked people in my network, maybe 20 people, I say, this is a picture, this is a post. What do you see? My kids say, it's not. Don't post it from 20 people. Just two people say, Salvega, post it. Everybody else say, don't do it. You're starting your own consultancy. People just will see your. The picture will automatically start hitting you. Do you want that? And I thought, well, I don't. You know, I really don't. And they say like, if you would do something like that 10 years ago, 15 years ago, everybody will think as it is not political false. It's just you're sharing your perspective, you're having picture of a famous person. And then I thought, you know, like, it's really like this is just an example that how political things became and how became a little like say unsafe. Like I thought like in any time in my history it was an immigrant. I would come and I would have a picture of the most influential person in the country and most, one of the most influential persons in the world. You would be okay. And then even my kissy. Why you just share the picture of Lithuanian president. So they thought sharing picture of Lithuanian president was okay, but of American is not okay and be American citizen. You know, my kids are American citizens too. Am I? Yeah. Yeah. So this is just an example that even like pictures can be like not okay to. And then like at some point they can't tell us 18 people saying no. Yeah. And I decided, well, maybe I don't. Can I ask you now question related to this? Do you. Well, you interview a lot of people from different parts of the world. Do you find also that, you know, especially maybe the people who are now like in the States, but maybe in other countries too, that they feel suddenly less safe talking about certain issues, especially about the politics or anything, you know, do you find that it's less comfortable? I, I think anybody who Joanne Lockwood: would maybe describe themselves as marginalised, minority, whatever it may be. Most people I speak to in the UK and around the US certainly and, and other parts of the world certainly feel more uncomfortable, certainly feel there's been a shift in perspective from governments, from society. And it's almost like the people who hold the privileges, the people who are the majority are pushing back and people who are being marginalised feel less safe, more scared, feel in the media, feel it politically that things are scary. I guess I feel that myself. I know people who are work, who are black or brown or people of colour, people are from LGBTQIA backgrounds, people are from say, migrants, expats, all feeling less safe than they were. And we see a rise of populism, nationalism, right leaning politics, and that's becoming the kind of the mainstream narrative. A lot of people I talk to and the world I live in is feeling less safe now than it did a year ago. Certainly, certainly. And I think a lot of that is maybe due to, maybe the political shift in the US has had a huge impact on that. The war in Ukraine, I think it's had a shift in that as well. The rise of anti immigration sentiment, certainly in the UK. I'm seeing that it's. Yeah, it's a less safe time for many people or perceived to be less safe. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's, Solveiga Jaskunas: it's, yeah, definitely. I think that is almost for me more concerning because, you know, growing up and having that experience in the Soviet regime when people are even afraid to share things with their own family members or like even now, like seeing, you know, that basically same things happening in Russia and many other places in the world and in the States too, like people are less open. Some people are still, but some other people are less open to talk about it. And it's. Yeah, for me that is more concerning. It's okay to agree to disagree, but it's still important to share perspectives as much as you can. And I found that you build that courage and strength every single time you bring some conversations. As I said, I try to stay as safe as possible, but not completely avoiding the conversations and more like bringing that still brings that pause or brings that discussions. And have you noticed a shift yourself in the last Joanne Lockwood: 12 months and how safe you feel? Yeah, Solveiga Jaskunas: yeah, definitely. It's less, but it's also almost, it makes more meaningful. A lot of people ask me, so how does Zalvega, you feel now, like, do you get a lot of backlash and actually I say, yes, I do, but it happened before. Like when I start speaking about immigrants, I think I lost about 10% or more connections. Some people never respond or ignore. Some people say disconnect specifically, you know, and mention something, but actually starting getting also more support. I starting get more invitations. Because when I put that immigrant voice in hr, people who are against immigrants, they don't even connect with me. They don't support. But the people who are supporting, when we see those first words and we say, oh, like, what are you doing? Oh, let me see what you're talking about. So actually, it almost also helps me because it attracts right people, the people who want to support the work I do. So actually, maybe in some ways it helps me out. I have the same Joanne Lockwood: view that I'd rather polarise people. I'd rather people who weren't interested left the room and I'll just keep talking to people who are interested. And it's by. By being very clear about what you do and who you help and what you're for. If people don't like that, that's on them. They can. They can leave the room as far as I'm concerned. And you end up having conversations with people who want to talk to you. Solveiga Jaskunas: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why we have this conversation. It's really, like, you know, incredible, you know, from different countries, but, yeah, like, we feel a way. Like, I like how you thought at the beginning you like conversations for humans who care for humans. Something like that. You said. And I thought, oh, this is so simple but so beautiful. And you said, like, I just want to be curious, you know, and see we have a conversational lead. And yes, Joanne Lockwood: so I noticed in the. What you wrote. Bear in mind, you wrote this almost a year ago. One of the things you said, you suggested that I asked you is what does achieving the American Dream mean to you? Has that changed in the last year? What is the American Dream that you're aspiring to? Yeah, Solveiga Jaskunas: actually, it didn't change as much because in some ways, you know, like, I think I would never talk about immigrantrant experiences or how to support immigrantrants or expats or if I. If I didn't have that experience myself, because as I mentioned, that experience is very difficult, but it helped me to help others better. And yeah, like, in the past, my probably American dream was to achieve my own success, but I found, like, how much is more rewarding for me to help others and to inspire other people. Like, I never, as I mentioned before, I never considered even speaking, but I Never thought people will resonate with my speaking and then suddenly seeing that other people start posting or speaking or considering opportunities because something I shared, it feels rewarding. And even, especially now in this polarised society where suddenly even the word immigrant feels not okay, I, I feel okay saying, you know, this is my picture and I feel proud to be an immigrantrant and why I feel proud and, and yes, maybe I could use the word other people more comfortable with, but for me, expat doesn't describe completely my experience. I, I feel more like an immigrantrant and I, I'm not ashamed. I'm proud of that experience and I want for other people to see that. Yes, be proud, not to be ashamed. Fabulous. Joanne Lockwood: Oh, I, I, I, I'm 100% behind you and I, I admire that you have the courage to have a voice and you still want to be heard and you're still inspiring people who are following behind you, walking beside you or even in front of you, looking, looking for inspiration, looking for somebody who can put into perspective what you've had to cope with and how you've adapted over the last 20 or so years. So it's, it's fascinating. So Solveiga, how can people get a hold of you? They want to find out more. What's the best way of contacting you? Yeah, so probably LinkedIn. This Solveiga Jaskunas: is where like I post everything. I have a Facebook account and Instagram, but I don't actually post most things. It's hard to keep up all these different social media accounts. I also had an immigrantrant voice in HR website, but LinkedIn has the most information. This is where I post all the speaking events and. Joanne Lockwood: Fabulous. Well, I'll put those in the show notes and just to help people out who are searching for you. Solveiga is Solveiga and Jaskunas is Jaskunas and that put that into LinkedIn. They'll find you there. And ImmigrantVoiceInHR.com is the website. Yeah. Fabulous. Fabulous. It's been an absolute pleasure. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so Solveiga Jaskunas: much. As we bring this Joanne Lockwood: conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to inclusion bites and become part of our ever growing community, driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, stories or a vision to. Share I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.