---
title: "Bridging Silent Worlds"
episode: 196
date: 2026-02-12
guest: "Maria Gallucci"
canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/196-bridging-silent-worlds
audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-196/audio.mp3
---

# Bridging Silent Worlds

Joanne Lockwood is joined by Maria Gallucci, a multi-award-winning realtor and author of Raised in Silence, to explore the realities of growing up as a hearing child of Deaf adults. Maria shares how American Sign Language shaped her family life, how she often became the bridge between Deaf and hearing worlds, and what it taught her about being seen, understood, and included. Together they unpack common misconceptions and everyday moments that can exclude Deaf and hard of hearing people—from speaking to an interpreter instead of the person, to assuming lip reading or “fixing” through devices is the default. They also reflect on Deaf identity and pride, the emotional weight of child interpreting, and the ways technology such as video relay and captioning has improved access while not eliminating stigma. The conversation closes with practical guidance for listeners: make the effort, learn a few basic signs, use respectful ways to get attention, and focus on genuine connection. The central message is simple but powerful—trying matters, and small acts of communication can create real belonging.

## Chapters

- 00:00 — Welcome to Inclusion Bites
- 05:34 — Understanding Hearing Loss Experiences
- 07:25 — Raised by Deaf Parents
- 11:06 — Awkward Handshake Observation
- 16:02 — Understanding Accents Through Experience
- 16:37 — Challenges of Deaf Literacy
- 21:27 — Promoting Cultural Awareness
- 24:18 — Building Inclusion and Awareness
- 26:37 — Challenging Assumptions Through Dialogue
- 32:08 — Deaf Dancer's Inspiring Victory
- 34:08 — Empathy Through Multilingual Experience
- 39:06 — ASL Difficult for Adults
- 42:15 — Ageing and Hearing Loss Awareness
- 44:23 — Aging and Declining Vision
- 46:56 — Dixie: A Second Chance
- 50:51 — Inclusion Bites: Join Us

## Key takeaways

- The everyday responsibilities and identity formation for children raised in deaf households.
- Understanding the diversity of sign languages and the importance of cultural nuance in communication.
- Navigating and challenging stereotypes around deafness, identity, and the notion of “fixing” others.
- Practical communication strategies when interacting with deaf or hard of hearing individuals, including etiquette and inclusive behaviours.
- The impact of modern technology—such as apps, video relay services, and closed captioning—on accessibility and community participation.
- Approaches for fostering inclusion within property and financial services, particularly for marginalised or underserved groups.
- The importance of beginning with small, genuine efforts—like learning basic sign language—as everyday acts of empathy and inclusion.

## FAQs

### What is a CODA and why is it significant in this episode?

A CODA stands for "Child of Deaf Adults." Maria Gallucci, the guest on this episode, is a multi-award-winning Realtor and a CODA, which has hugely influenced her perspective on empathy, inclusion, and accessibility between Deaf and hearing communities.

### Is sign language universal?

What is the difference between ASL and other sign languages? 
No, sign language is not universal. As Maria Gallucci explains, American Sign Language (ASL) is distinct from British Sign Language (BSL) and other national sign languages. Each has unique syntax, grammar, and even regional dialects, much like spoken languages.

### How did growing up with Deaf parents shape Maria Gallucci’s identity and empathy?

Being raised in a Deaf household, Maria Gallucci and her siblings learnt ASL as their first language and often served as interpreters for their parents in essential settings like hospitals and banks. This experience heightened her sense of empathy, inclusivity, and the importance of making people feel seen and heard.

### Is Deafness always seen as a disability by those who are Deaf?

Not at all. Maria Gallucci underscores that her parents and the wider Deaf community often regard Deafness as an identity, not a disability. They embrace deafness as part of their authentic selves and, rather than seeking to be "fixed," value connection and understanding.

### What are some basic etiquette tips when interacting with Deaf or hard of hearing individuals?

Always address and look at the Deaf individual rather than the interpreter. This fosters respect and direct communication. It’s also polite to gently tap someone on the shoulder or arm to gain their attention if they do not see you approaching. Learning a few common signs such as “thank you” or “hello” can make a meaningful difference.

### How do modern technologies support the Deaf and hard of hearing community today?

Technology has evolved substantially, with video relay services, texting, speech-to-text apps, closed captioning on media, and QR code transcriptions at events. These advances offer far greater independence and accessibility compared to the older devices like TTY machines.

## Transcript

Joanne Lockwood: Foreign. Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world without? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share storeys that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in. Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 195 with the title Bridging Silent Worlds. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Maria Gallucci. Maria is a multi award winning Realtor, Altcoder stands for Child of Deaf Adults, and author of Raised in Silence. She also builds accessible home buying experiences and championing, I can never say championing, championing empathy between deaf and hearing communities. And when I asked Maria to describe herself, she said that it is radical empathy that bridges deaf and hearing worlds. Hello, Maria, welcome to the show. Absolute pleasure. Absolute pleasure. And we were chatting in the green room before we went live about your ancestry, where are you from and where do you descend from in the past?

Maria Gallucci: So I'm Italian and we live in Denver, Colorado now, but we're second generation Italians in the United States. And I was born in New Hampshire but basically raised in Colorado because we. Were talking about how the pronunciation of your name

Joanne Lockwood: is. People see the Cs and they pronounce it kind of an American way, but not in the Italian way. So Gallucci. So CH is the C. Yeah, exactly. And everyone always just did Galu sea, which it's actually.

Maria Gallucci: Gallucci. Yeah, that's really. Yeah. And I was, I was wondering

Joanne Lockwood: the other day, you know, historical character Julius Caesar, should he be really Julius Cheeser? Yeah, that's true. I always wondered that. Rewrite history books the world over.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah. To redo all the class stuff that we learned. Yeah. Hail

Joanne Lockwood: Cheeser and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so it's. Yeah, I always wondered that. But. So Maria, you, as I said in the intro, you're the child of deaf adults and you grew up in a. In a world where silence was the norm for them. But obviously You're a hearing child. That must have been a challenge because you must have also had to be their sign interpreter or their interpreter from the hearing to the not hearing world. Yeah, we were always the gap

Maria Gallucci: between the hearing and the non hearing world and so we always had to interpret for their medical appointments or any financial things. And there's six of us kids and we're all hearing and both of our parents were deaf. So ASL was our first language. And then my mom always said we learned how to speak through the TV and obviously school and things like that. So ASL is all we've known since we were kids. Asl, that's American Sign Language. Yes, American Sign Lang language. Every country has their own signs. Like, because it's not a universal language,

Joanne Lockwood: you don't translate, do you? It's a completely independent language.

Maria Gallucci: Yes, Yep. And we always say things, we reverse things like Spanish, how they do the reversal, that's how we sign as well. Where English is the different. So ASL and bsl different syntax

Joanne Lockwood: and context. Is it? Yes. Yeah, it's all, it's. It's different. Like in,

Maria Gallucci: I think my mom always said in the Philippines, I think it was, they would actually like use their hands to do signs. Like their bodies to do. Do the signs. Where in AASL we do. We do it with our hands. Wow. So there's no universal

Joanne Lockwood: sign language. No, no. But every, every has, everyone

Maria Gallucci: has their own. It's like having accents too. Yeah. Wow.

Joanne Lockwood: So different parts of the country have different signs for different words, do they? Yes. Yep. Yep, they do. It's completely different. That must be tricky to learn, I guess as a non native or a non child growing up with signings. So you have to learn it, but if you're travelling around the country you have to learn that there's different dialects as well. Were your parents ever hearing or were they born without hearing? So

Maria Gallucci: my dad was born deaf and then my mom became deaf at nine months because she had, I think it was the measles and the mumps at the same time when she was nine months. So she was raised deaf, but she, she was actually not born deaf. And all, all of us six, six kids are hearing, so none of us were deaf. Okay.

Joanne Lockwood: So I've got a friend who has cochlear implants and she, she lost her hearing probably in the childhood, I think five or six years old. So she had a few years off hearing, which makes the cochlear implants easier to process because she knows what hearing is. But it must be extremely Difficult for maybe both your parents because they've never heard. It's such an integral part of my experience that how can I describe something without ever having heard something? Yes,

Maria Gallucci: I agree. I agree with that because. Well, back then, they had. It wasn't the implants, but it was something else that they had that they put on their ear. Like, they've come advanced on that stuff. And my mom, they never wore hearing aids. It gave her migraines, so she always, like, took off the hearing aids. So I think that when you're born deaf, it is different because you've never heard. And so a lot of people struggle with, like, headaches and things like that when they put the implants in or even use the hearing aids. Is your. Are your parents proud of their deafness?

Joanne Lockwood: It's part of their identity. It's not just a. They don't see it as a disability. It's more that they're proud to be deaf.

Maria Gallucci: Yes, exactly. And I'm proud to be a coda. It gives you a different perspective on people and being inclusive and things like that. Yeah, I've heard that before. But it's like other

Joanne Lockwood: disabilities or conditions where people don't feel they need to be fixed. They're perfectly okay as they are, and they're not broken. They don't need someone to come fix them. They just are. Yeah. They're

Maria Gallucci: being their authentic self. They don't feel like they're. They're anything different than who they are. So what challenges did you face

Joanne Lockwood: as a child growing up in this world? Were you the oldest of your siblings or in the middle of their siblings? I'm

Maria Gallucci: in the middle. Yeah. So I'm the third to the oldest. Yeah. And so I think it was just having people making them feel different than they are, not accepted, and seeing my parents be like. Or we all of us being made fun of because we signed or because our parents didn't, you know, talk. So I think that it gave us more empathy towards people and communities. And I think that being raised with deaf parents gives you a different perspective on how you treat others.

Joanne Lockwood: So if you were in the middle of your siblings, you had the advantage of having older brothers or sisters to interface before you, if you like. So your oldest sibling must have had the biggest challenge of being the interface.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah. And what's strange is I was. I was always the main person with my parents when we. When I went to. Yeah. So. And I don't know how that ended up coming about, but, yeah, I. I was the main one that always helped to interpret when I. When I was little and help them get through. Through things with, like the. The Met medical appointments and the. And things. Things like that, where you have to actually be there for them, to help them, guide them. So that, that must mean quite a weight

Joanne Lockwood: of responsibility to be being a young person and being the primary, I suppose, carer in certain situations.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah. And I think that that's why seeing my parents get taken advantage of a lot. And I always promised myself, even when I was younger, that I will never, ever let anybody feel left out or not included or feel not seen. And so that was always my mission ever since I was little. One thing I've heard other deaf people tell me is that

Joanne Lockwood: when you have an interpreter, it's really important to speak to the person, not to the interpreter. Because sometimes people will talk to the person doing the interpreting, not to the person you're trying to. That's quite an insult, really, isn't it? You're almost cutting them out. Yeah, exactly. And that is so

Maria Gallucci: true, because when we do our closings, a lot of the times the closer will actually talk to the interpreter. And then my client will be like, no, you need to talk to me directly. And then. Cause you just. You make it seem like the interpreter's not there. And then. So when. When we do the video phones, like the, the relay, we also are talking to them as if we're talking to the person. So you, You. You always talk to them and face them instead of the interpreter. And even with, like, sign language and ASL is very expressive. And that's how. Because, you know, with our voices, we can do emotion. And so with sign language, we do it with our expressions and everything. And so even with. Yeah, exactly. And I still do that. I always move my hands, you know, when I'm talking, well, Italian. So maybe that has something to do

Joanne Lockwood: with Italian. Yeah, exactly.

Maria Gallucci: But we can't. It's hard for me to talk to people if they have sunglasses on. And so. Because I have to see them and I have to, like, see their expressions on their faces. So, yeah, I think looking at someone is very important. And even not in just asl, I think just communication in general, you should always just look at the person so they can feel, like, seen and heard. I found that I used to go to networking meetings quite often

Joanne Lockwood: in business, and the number of times you'd shake someone's hand and they'd look away from you or they start talking over here. And I developed a technique where you don't let go of their hand until they look at you, they're sort of trying to shake your hand and they're moving on. You just hold their hand and they go, oh, thank you. Now we're talking. Yeah, yeah, just don't let go. And it really confuses them. I'm start doing that from now on. I was wanting, I was waiting for you to look at me. Then they realised how rude they've been by doing this and they walk off. That's why I'm for the wrong video here. So if you're watching, what I'm doing is, I'm actually, I'm doing this simulated shaking towards handle. What happens is sometimes people walk into a room and they don't look at you while they're shaking their hands. I just visually just was playing that out on camera. But if you're listening to this on the, on the audio, you won't be able to, you won't be able to see me. So I thought we better make that inclusive if we're not careful. Talk about, talk about hearing. But also there's, there's a sight issue here as well, if you're any listening anyway. Yeah. So, yeah, I. People can. I'm going to start doing that. But people aren't doing it deliberately. They're just, they're just not, they're just not focused, are they? Yeah,

Maria Gallucci: they're just, I don't want to say self absorbed but they're not like, they're not making. That's how a lot of people feel, like excluded and not feel seen. I don't know if it sounds strange or not, but I

Joanne Lockwood: learned about this need to look at the person, not the interpreter. And I think it was an episode of Star Trek Next Generation where one of the species or the characters couldn't hear and they always had an interpreter with them. And I think Jean Luc Picard or Reich or something kept looking at the interpreter and they said, no, no, look at, look at the king, look at, look at the emperor or something. It's like it stuck with me. And that was, I don't know, 20, 30, 40 years ago when I was watching that. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah.

Maria Gallucci: And that happens a lot actually. A lot, a lot. So I have to like judge up and say, make sure you're, you're talking to the client. Like just pretend like the interpreter's not there. All she's doing is just interpreting.

Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I've been in situations where there's been some deaf people and the interpreters in, around and because you consciously don't focus on the Interpreter. It almost feels rude that you almost want to say, I see you as well. But there's often such in the background. And the protocol is talk to the person, not to the interpreter. But I just feel that the interpreter sometimes feels like a spare part in the whole thing. Yeah, I was feeling embarrassed for not talking to them. Sometimes I go after and say, just want to say I see you as well. Yeah, exactly. Just say hi. And just say hi.

Maria Gallucci: I see. Thank you so much for interpreting.

Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And then go, yeah, Otherwise. Otherwise they're almost like a utility piece in the background. I don't know if you find that sometimes you're just in the background and no one ever acknowledges you.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly. And that's how I feel. Like a lot of us growing up was for my parents. And so because they do get excluded because people don't want to try, like just try to communicate with them or if they think that they can't communicate, they just won't. They'll just shuck them aside instead of just trying with them. Did you ever have

Joanne Lockwood: to deal with people asking silly questions like, can't they have hearing aids? Or why don't they have cochlear implants? Or can they have a surgery or can they be fixed? Do they have to have to fend off questions like that often? Oh, yes, a lot when we

Maria Gallucci: were kids, like, why can't they talk normal? Or. And then like asking about the hearing aids. And then the other one is, does it feel? Or how was it like growing up with deaf parents? And then I'm like, well, how was it like growing up with hearing parents? Like, it's our normal, so it's the same thing. But yeah, now we got. We got stared at a lot. And I still am, like, self conscious even now, like getting stared at. And so I think that. And sign language is beautiful too. Like, if you just. I mean, to be able to speak with your hands is, I think, absolutely amazing. And to be able to be able to do stuff in words. And I think a lot of people maybe take that not for granted, but like, not really knowing that or what it is and always look at it as something different, but it's not. It's. We're just communicating just in a different language.

Joanne Lockwood: Well, you. One of your superpowers, I guess, is you can communicate across a room in silence, can't you? Yes. You can have a conversation 20ft apart. Yeah. So if. Yeah, exactly.

Maria Gallucci: If my sisters or my brothers are like, down, like the room, I can sign if I needed them to go Grab me something. Or if we're like a long line at the restaurant, I can tell them can you get me a drink? And we can communicate way across the room. Do either of your parents

Joanne Lockwood: actually verbalise at all? Or they could or they, they're non verbal or they, they try and speak. So my dad was nonverbal, he barely ever

Maria Gallucci: spoke. I probably heard him say maybe two things his entire life but my mom did speak. So she and I, and I don't know if it's because she was born deaf that made, I mean born, not deaf, born hearing that made the difference. I've always wondered that. But yeah, my mom did speak so we would know if we were in. Trouble I guess if she had as you said, I think you said

Joanne Lockwood: nine months or so before she lost her hearing. So she would have heard her father, her mother, her, her environment as words. So she would have learned some words, I guess. Yeah, yeah, she would

Maria Gallucci: learn some. But they, they. Well my mom didn't like, she would like my name's Maria but she would say Biwika as my name. And so they don't know the, or my mom didn't know like the, what words sounded like. So it'd be like yes, their words. But we understood it and I, I can even understand accents, even heavy accents. And I think it's because I grew up with that because you're, you have to listen and, and try to figure out what, what they're, they're saying. So for me it's very easy to have different accents and things like that. I can understand it. So it must have been a real challenge

Joanne Lockwood: and I, I don't want to sound like I'm being patronising here but it must be a challenge for your parents to learn to get on In a world where hearing is taken for for granted. Hearing also enables you speech. You learned how to read, read and write by through audible language as well. How did your parents learn to read and write? I mean it must be a lot harder. Maybe reading might be easier but they obviously hear different words in their head as they read. They must recognise the word but they don't know. They have a different way of processing that when we read a book we almost say it to ourselves, say the words out loud in our head sometimes.

Maria Gallucci: I asked, it's funny that you said that because I asked my mom one time I had to do a, a high school like thesis and when I was graduating and it was about dreams and I had asked my mom and dad if they can hear in their, in their Dreams. And they said yes. And so I'm like, oh, that's like. And I thought that was so interesting. And then. And then supposedly blind people can actually see in their dreams as well. So they did go to a deaf boarding school growing up. So then I think it's just teaching them how to read and write because they. But. And then also when you lose your hearing, you all your other senses heighten up too, so you like, you watch better. You. And the

Joanne Lockwood: gesticulations. And the Italian. And the Italian, yeah. So what's the biggest challenge in the world today for them? I mean, we've talked about a few things around acceptance, but I'd like to think the world is getting a better place than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. Yeah, it's so advanced now. Like before we didn't have

Maria Gallucci: like the. We have the video relay services now where you can see somebody on the video and it's an interpreter on the other line, which we didn't have that back then. We had. It's called a tty. So you just. It was like a little machine and you typed and then it would go to the other machine on the other end. And. But now there's. There's a lot of apps that you can do now that will interpret. Like you could just show. Show it to them and then texting. So I think that it's just awareness now and letting people know that they're just like us. Like in the deaf and hard of hearing community is just like the, the hearing world. They. They just communicate in a different language. So you used

Joanne Lockwood: to use a phrase there. Deaf and hard of hearing. What's the difference for those who are listening? When is someone deaf? When is someone hard of hearing? What's the difference? So when you're

Maria Gallucci: deaf, you're like 100% deaf, so you can't really hear. And then hard of hearing is when you've just lost some or most of your hearing. So the deaf culture is usually always deaf and hard of hearing because they all go in one. And

Joanne Lockwood: so profoundly deaf means completely deaf, doesn't it? Yes. At the. Hard of hearing is a level of deafness. It's not complete, but it's enough more than. Yeah, it puts you into a different bracket. And then you've got. Hearing impaired or hard of hearing is a different category. Is it?

Maria Gallucci: Yeah. So they're hearing impaired and deaf and hard of hearing. They all. It just shows. Or the difference I would say would be the percentage of what your deaf or. Because my dad was 100% deaf in both ears. And then my mom was like. I think she was like 95 in one and 90 in the other. So she was profoundly deaf. And so I think it just depends on the percentage. But the deaf and hard of hearing community is all lumped into the deaf culture.

Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I've heard in the UK that someone who is profoundly deaf or completely, completely deaf uses a capital D for their deafness, whereas people who are not profound or completely deaf use a lowercase D. Is that similar to the culture in America?

Maria Gallucci: No, out here we do. So the deaf and hard of hearing. So the D is capitalised and then the H is capitalised, and the other H for deaf and hard of hearing. That's if you're speaking about them, like the deaf and hard of hearing community, those would be capitalised, capitalised. But then if you. Yeah, and then if you do just the deaf culture, like, that would be in lower clique. Yeah.

Joanne Lockwood: So it's a bit like capital B for black, for someone's identity. It's reinforcing that. There's so many different nuances, isn't there, that an outsider of the community, if they're not aware of the culture of deafness, you're. Well, you are unaware of these little nuances that you've got to be careful of. Yeah,

Maria Gallucci: exactly. Because you can say or do something that's actually very insulting to the community. And so I think that's where awareness comes in and just trying to learn about the culture. Or even if you see someone who's not hearing and they're trying to find something, go ahead and, like, tap on their shoulder and see if you can help them. Or. Because you could even put on your phone, like text it in your notes and just show. Show it to them, like, do you need any help? Yeah. In modern technology, as you say,

Joanne Lockwood: you've got these devices, apps now, where it'll convert speech to text and even translate it into a different language as well. Yeah. It must have radicalised and changed the whole experience. Oh, yeah, it's changed. Between my mom and her

Maria Gallucci: medical appointments when she had cancer, to my dad 24 years later was completely different. So, yeah, it's definitely advanced and still moving.

Joanne Lockwood: As a hearing person myself, my go to entertainment is cinema, it's tv. Your parents probably didn't grow up in that kind of world. So do they. Are they big tv, watches, subtitles, or is that something that they just do something different instead? Yeah, the closed captioning now. So we

Maria Gallucci: have, I think back, like, when I was little, I don't know if we had it when I was little, but we did. It did, like, develop into closed captions. So now that's, like, everywhere. And then now they have, like, before, they didn't have interpreters at speaking events or the news or concerts, and now they do, which is amazing because it used to not have, like, any of that stuff back then. Yeah. I

Joanne Lockwood: see on the tv, America seems better at it than we are in the uk. The uk, we are getting better. But things like the super bowl, those sort of things, always have a signed interpreter in the corner, don't they? And the closed captioning is more rigorously enforced than I think it is here. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. And you can even now,

Maria Gallucci: like on YouTube or even Instagram and things like that, there's a button that you can press that'll actually translate what they're saying. Yeah. Into close captioning. Yeah. So it's definitely more obvious now than it was. Yeah. And in conference and things like that,

Joanne Lockwood: you could scan QR codes and it will link you through to the thing and you can get the transcription on your phone so you can be sitting in the audience and not. They don't have to put it on all the boards. You can just sit in the phone and have your own private caption you. Can just see

Maria Gallucci: on the phone. Yeah, exactly. So it's definitely a lot better now than it was back then. So you wrote this book called Raised in

Joanne Lockwood: Silence, and that's the storey of your journey for you. I mean, we talked a bit. A lot about your parents now. So let's talk a bit about you and your experience growing up and what prompted you to write the book. I think

Maria Gallucci: when I was building. Well, I've always wanted to make people feel included and not isolated, and I feel like I wanted to write about it to make people just aware of, like, the community. There's funny storeys in there, there's tips in there for. On what. What to do and what not not to do. And then I feel like there was a moment in my life when I realised I was building a. A successful career and watching people I cared about get, like, left out in the process. So I was doing very well in industry standards and everything, but I wasn't. I didn't feel like I was serving the community. And it's a very underserved community community. So I think that's what shaped me. I think it. It made me seeing that at the end, that my client, like, before feeling invisible before, like, the asl, and then just seeing Them feel very included and happy, you know, buying their first home and because that's a big life investment and so not being able to understand what they're signing or what. What they're. They're doing. I think. I think that. That that's why I. I wrote the book is just for awareness and just make people feel included in all, like, all. Not just the deaf and hard of hearing community. So which other communities do you work with?

Joanne Lockwood: So, accessibility. So someone who has a disability or someone who's blind or so you're working with to make the whole buying process accessible for all. For all. Yeah. And

Maria Gallucci: then I work with the LGBTQ community. My son is gay, and so when he came out, that was just very easy for us because we were very inclusive and that's how we were raised. So that. That was the easiest. So I. And I see, like, my son struggles sometimes with being, like, excluded out of that thing. So for me, I think it's all about communication and about empathy and just being in, like, inclusiveness for me, and that's what, like, drives me. So where you live now is. It's

Joanne Lockwood: Denver, Colorado. Is that a. That seems to me like it's a red state. Is that. Is that red state? We're blue. You're blue? Ah, yeah. In Ireland. Yeah. So we're. Yes. Yeah. So he's very lucky to be

Maria Gallucci: in Colorado because it's a very, very LGBTQ friendly state. It's interesting. I'm actually doing

Joanne Lockwood: a talk to a Rotary Club of Texas tonight. I was a bit concerned when I first got the call to do the talk, and I thought, oh, Texas, are they really gonna be up for me? You know, you never think. But I had a really great chat with this Rotarian, and it's a really interesting conversation. And it's so easy to judge people and assume that somebody's gonna be anti you or against you or whatever it is. I think the media sometimes create this impression that it's not true. Yeah, I

Maria Gallucci: agree. And that's what I mean. I just saw my parents get judged all the time, and us, too, as that, like the kids, and even with my son and everything. And I just think that it's so easy to be. It's. I think it's easy. It's so easy to. To have people, I think hate. And I. I just want people just to love. I think love is love, no matter who you are. And I think that that's how. I think that if we all just come together and just know that all of us are the Same. And we're just living our lives through the process and all we want is to feel it accepted. Amen. Amen to that. Yeah,

Joanne Lockwood: completely. So going back to supporting and championing, if you like, people who are deaf, hard of hearing, hearing impaired, what are the sort of basic tips that we can give to our listener out there who wants to find out more, who wants to maybe learn more about people who are deaf? Where's a good starting point? What's the key things that we should be leaving them with? I think just trying and

Maria Gallucci: then knowing. There's a lot of places where you can learn the basic science, like thank you or you're welcome, and it makes them feel so good. And I've seen this before where I'm at, like a restaurant or whatever and the waiter says thank you, like, in sign language. And that means a lot to them. So just like the basic signs. Yeah. Yep. That's thank you. Yep. Yeah. Just the basic. The basic signs, I think makes such a big difference. Just for them. Just to feel like somebody is trying with them and someone is, like, making them. Trying to make them feel included. I think that's huge for everyone. Yeah.

Joanne Lockwood: Is it polite, for example, to tap someone gently on the shoulder or the elbow, Just indicate you're trying to have a conversation? Is that rude or is that acceptable? I do it all the time.

Maria Gallucci: I think it's. I think it's. I mean, obviously, I think lightly just tapping them so they know that you're there because otherwise they're not going to know or just turn or turn and walk in front of them. Yeah.

Joanne Lockwood: So they see you getting their attention is perfectly valid. You know it's not. Yeah, yeah. So either. Either, as you say, manoeuvre yourself, or gentle touch on the shoulder or the elbow in a polite way to say, I'm here or. Yeah,

Maria Gallucci: exactly. That's what I do. Just manoeuvres just so that they can see or wave, so they know that you're trying to get their attention.

Joanne Lockwood: Do people forget that the people you work with, your father, your mother can't hear? Do they forget sometimes and they start having a conversation, they speak too quickly, or they just make an assumption that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, a lot of

Maria Gallucci: times. And then I would have to tell them, oh, my mom can't hear or my dad can't hear. And then. Yeah, because. And then they'll either start talking, like, louder, which does not help. And then I think that there's an assumption that all deaf and hard of hearing people can lip read and not all of them can. I can, because I was taught that. But a lot of people, I think, assume that they, they could. Yeah, I've seen it. You

Joanne Lockwood: know, it's like, it's when you talk to somebody who has a different first language, you shout or you speak as if the other person is less intelligent sometimes, don't you. You assume that they're, they can't be understood. So, yeah, it's, I've seen people do this and it's, it's. It's very embarrassing to watch.

Maria Gallucci: I know. And I, I've seen people, People do. Do that too, because it's like they, and I, I agree with you. They think that they're less intel. Intelligent and they aren't like. They're just like everybody else. And I don't think anybody's smarter than another one. It's just a different way of learning in a different skill. Yeah. Different skills, different ways. In fact, if

Joanne Lockwood: anything, they've had to overcome more barriers in a hearing world to cope and adapt. Exactly. More cognitive ability in that way.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah. And. Yeah, because what I was saying earlier was like, all of their senses, like, get heightened, so they're more aware of things and they're more, I think, like not, not really not knowledgeable, but like they. All this stuff, like, takes over. So I think that they assume things like that, but it's not, it's not the case. What's, what's

Joanne Lockwood: something you wouldn't appreciate? You know, just without knowing somebody who's deaf. What's something that, a joy of life that they have that maybe we, we hearing people don't have? That that's part of their identity, part of their community that we could be. We would be surprised about. I would say they

Maria Gallucci: love music usually because they can feel the beat of like, so, like every. Yeah, yep, exactly. And so every time I have like my. I call it my, my uptown party, they. They always, like, dance. They always dance. They like most of them love to. To dance because they, they can feel the beat. They can. I think they appreciate the, the music more and the actual, like, music part because they, they're going off of feeling instead of hearing.

Joanne Lockwood: In our TV series, we call it Strictly Come Dancing. You call it Dancing with the Stars. I think in the US we had a deaf actress who took part in that show. I think it was last year or the year before. She won the whole competition in the end. And it was really fascinating to watch her dance the set knowing she was deaf, yet she was in perfect timing and she was able to. But she, she could feel, as you say, she could feel the rhythm. And her and her partner developed cues, either tapping each other or grabbing or squeezing, whatever it may be, to get. To get that rhythm. And yeah, you're right. I've been to rock concerts. I've seen meatloaf and other people have been down the front. And you can feel your chest vibrate and your whole body vibrate with music, can't you? Yeah,

Maria Gallucci: I think. And then I think that we sometimes may take that for granted, that we can hear the music. But them feeling the music I think gives them like it's just a different century, I think. And so I can see that she won that. That's awesome because I mean, she can feel everything. And that's when you know the beats because you're actually feeling the beats instead of like hearing it. I love that feeling, the music. That's a real superpower

Joanne Lockwood: that be able to become really at one with that vibe, with that feeling. Yeah, it's like going to a club raised. Yeah, you really give it. You really pumping those vibes. And your whole body is at one with that musical experience. Exactly. It's like a meditation

Maria Gallucci: almost, because they're feeling it and it's different. Yeah. Oh,

Joanne Lockwood: yeah. That's really, really give me a glow there. That's fascinating. What else have you found in your life again as a child growing up that was either easier for you or harder for you? Being the primary interpreter must have been tricky, but there must have been a lot of joy there as well. Yeah, I think

Maria Gallucci: because I'm multi language too, so I speak like two different languages. And I think it gave me better communication skills because I know that I need to listen and have them feel seen and have like, take my time to listen to them, know what they. They want. So I think that it gave me a better, like, understanding of people be feeling le left out, which is not what I ever want to do with anybody. So I've always been more. I've always had a bigger heart because I've always thought that I don't want anybody hurting and I don't want anybody feeling left out or made fun of because I was growing up, growing up as a kid. So I would never want anybody to feel bad about their own selves. So for me, I think it gave me more of like a bigger heart, I think.

Joanne Lockwood: Is your son taking it upon himself to learn ASL as well? Is it kind of a family duty?

Maria Gallucci: So. Well, it's kind of funny because I had him take ASL in high school. As one of his languages, thinking that I would help him and he can ace the tests and all that stuff. So I helped him and he actually, he. He got straight A's throughout school and he got. Flunked that test. He got one F. He was so mad at me because I was signing the way I learned and I'm a coda, so I'm fluent in sign language. But I didn't even realise that when you're actually taught and the years later too, everything was so different. Being taught, like sign language, you're going through the. Like proper sign language. Going through that. The classes was completely different, different than how I was raised. And so he was like, thanks, Mom. So there's. The way you learn it

Joanne Lockwood: today is not the way that the deaf community, if you like have grown up with it, it's more conversational, more chatty, whereas when you're learning it, it's more structured. Is it? Yes.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah. Different, like. And there's different signs for different words. Because, like, favourite. I was like, this is favourite. And I was taught favourite. And so. And like birthday was birthday, but now it's like birthday. So there's different signs for different things. It's kind of like sling. And so the way we were taught was just growing up, like, it wasn't proper, like asl. So it was completely different when I was doing it with. With him than it was when I learned. So it's. So it's become more

Joanne Lockwood: formalised over the generations and it's. It's become a standard throughout the country where, as you said before, there was more dialects and local regional variations. It's now trying to. Got a core structure. Yeah, exactly. It's like. And there's different types of

Maria Gallucci: sign too, like asl, which. What I do. And there's like. I think there's eel or E or C S, E too. So there's different types of sign, like slang words. And so there. There's different types of. Yeah, yeah, like dialect and things like that. There's actually different types of that within sign language. So it's a bit like driving

Joanne Lockwood: test. You have the. You part. You learn to drive and pass your test with the instructor. And then when you pass your test, you drive completely differently.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. You bypassed everything you learned. Yeah. You almost stop at the stop sign. Yeah, exactly, yeah. And you turn right sometimes, even when

Joanne Lockwood: you're not supposed to on the red. It's. Yeah, you get in the habit. And you Never drive at 55 miles an hour. Do you always. You always go at The. Yeah, never. No. Unless there's a. Unless there's someone with a speed gun down the road pointing it at you.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly. I never. I never thought. I

Joanne Lockwood: never thought of it that way. As you said, you didn't think of it either. You just assumed that he. Yeah, I just assumed. Yeah.

Maria Gallucci: And then I. And I thought I did so well. Like, I literally thought he was gonna come home and have an A. And he.

Joanne Lockwood: But you can sign fluently to your parents. I guess he cannot

Maria Gallucci: now. Jordan. Jordan was learning. My oldest was learning sign language. And then my mom passed away when Jordan was nine and so she forgot a lot of the sign. And then with him, I never really taught him how to sign, and I should have, but we're teaching the grandbaby how to sign, so we'll see. She'll learn. So you'll pass it on to the next generation. Yeah, exactly. But it's kind of so cute to see, like, because she's only a year and a half old, but it's so cute to see baby sign. And it's. It's easier for them, too, to learn the signs than it is to like, to use her voice at that age, too. So she was signing, like, milk and more and all that stuff before she was even talking. I'm thinking of. Now I'm thinking about that. That

Joanne Lockwood: movie, was it Meet the Fockers, where they're signing for milk and all those things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's creating these signs for things. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. Poop and milk and. Yeah, that's funny. But, yeah, no, it's a lot

Maria Gallucci: easier to teach babies to sign. It's a lot. I don't know if I would. I'm so glad that I'm a coda and learned that ASL was my first language, but I couldn't even imagine being an adult or older learning how to sign. And, like, it's because, for me, it's my normal. Because I was raised like that. But I know a lot. A lot of people who went and take and took classes and they're like, ASL is, like, really hard to learn. And then seeing him go. Go through. Through that, I was like, oh, that actually is completely different. That'd be hard. I guess it's like any language, if you're

Joanne Lockwood: with people who are using that language all the time, you pick up one word here and one word there, and it becomes. You learn to structure your sentences as you do it, whereas if you're trying to learn it as a textbook without the context, it's always harder, isn't it?

Maria Gallucci: Yeah, yeah, it is. And I have a lot of good friends who are deaf and hard of hearing and in that world. And I feel it always is more comfortable for me to be in an environment with the deaf culture because that's what I was raised in. And I always feel more comfortable in that environment. And I've always stuttered as a kid so I had to go to count or like speech therapy and all that stuff for stuttering. But I don't stutter when I sign, like at all. It's just when I speak. So it's kind of ironic. Yeah. My own experience of losing hearing is.

Joanne Lockwood: Well, for myself, about 10, 15 years or thereabouts. I had a viral infection in my inner ear and all of a sudden I woke up one day, I just. I couldn't hear much. I could hear a little bit, but I'd. It was like a real cloudy, muffled, sort of really strange sort of echoey noise in my head and everything was like I was underwater all the time. And I went to the doctor and the doctor said, it's a virus, one day it will clear up maybe. And I was like, how long? He went, dunno, 612 weeks maybe. See, just. So it was over Christmas one year and I remember our children came around and we were watching TV and was. I had to have the subtitles on. I did the telly loud and they were talking to me and I go, I can't hear you. And it, it was a really, a real wake up call to what it's like to not hear you. Just, you're in a little bubble. The world seems very isolated. And then one day I woke up and it, it was back, it was like, whoa. As fast as it went, it reappeared and it was a really strange feeling, but it gave me an appreciation. And my father who passed away this year, he was pretty deaf, you know, he could wear hearing aids but he was very hard, very hard of hearing. He worked on ships in the navy and he used to work on the guns. We think that the constant firing the guns damages hearing. Yeah. And my father in law, he's also pretty deaf and has hearing aids. And even with a hearing aid, it's hard sometimes to communicate with him. So I now live in a world with two elderly parents who are pretty deaf. My mum has hearing aids, she's pretty good at hearing, but she's still got some impairment. And I've got some friends now I'm in my 60s, I've got friends who are about my age and we go for a couple of drinks in the evening and they say, oh, could you sit on my left hand side? Because I can only hear in that ear, I can't hear in the other ear. And you start becoming appreciative. And I think I read a stat once that one in six of us will lose our hearing to an extent where I think when you lose 80% or something, we become deaf by classification. So one in six of us will happen to by our mid-50s, early 60s. You think, wow, that's a lot of population. Yeah, it's a lot. And that's

Maria Gallucci: what I think that we take or we take a lot of things for granted and hearing I think is one of them for sure. We don't realise like what we can have even with like the blind too. Like we take our vision and our hearing for, for granted. So I think that, I think just like including people and knowing that later on in life they may not have their hearing. And so I think that that's where, it's where you want to make people feel like, be inclusive and not isolated because it is an isolating feeling that you can't hear. Like all of a sudden you can hear and then you can't. Then it, like, I think it makes them feel like overlooked or misunderstood. So I think that just findings where they, they fit in I think is what just making people in general fit in I think is just really big. And I think that's why I also wrote the book because it has other stuff in there, not just for the deaf and hard of hearing community, it's just all about inclusion and being inclusive and awareness because we, we are like, like you're saying one one in six, that's huge. Like we're going to be losing our hair or even if we lose our sight too, because that goes down. I'm, I'm going to start needing glasses soon. Yeah. I've been wearing

Joanne Lockwood: varifocals for 30, 40 years, you know, and I noticed my, my distance vision, it's almost getting worse every year now and I've got, I think, is it glaucoma or cataracts or something? I've got something developing that is accelerating the degeneration of my left eye slightly. So every year it's getting worse. I think eventually I'll probably need laser or something on it. But yeah, you get to get past 50 and things start breaking or shutting down or we forget easy. You know, when you're 20 years old, you're invincible. And if you've never had a childhood problem. Then you get to your 20s, you just think the world is easy, and then all of a sudden you break your leg skiing, or you do you injure your knee playing football, or you do this, whatever your sport you're playing, and suddenly you realise, hang on a minute, my body is starting to fall apart here and it aches. And when you get to your 50s and it creaks when you stand in, get up for a chair and you can't quite walk as far as you used to. Yeah. So I think we need to be more aware when we're younger about creating accessible and inclusive spaces, because that'll be us in not too distant future. Yeah, exactly. Very realistic. In 10 years time, I'm going to be less able than I am today. No matter how much exercise I do and try and keep fit and active, something's gonna stop working. Yeah, exactly.

Maria Gallucci: And I think that when we're young, we definitely take our youth for granted, for sure. Because we don't realise, like, I think that we always see. Cause we saw our parents grow up and that, well, my mom passed away in her 40s, but we saw them, like, get older and older and we always thought, like, they were older, but now we're their age and we're like. But we. But when we're kids. So I think that even as kids and as youths, we take, like, your ageing for granted, like, you don't realise, like, I'm gonna be there someday. Your dad must have taken it pretty hard when your mum passed away, because

Joanne Lockwood: I'm guessing they were soulmates as being so tightly linked together, being both deaf. Yeah,

Maria Gallucci: the. They. They were married for 32 years, or they were together for 32 years before my mom passed away. And then. And my dad was so. My dad was probably. So my mom was like, 49, and then my dad was like, 52. And then he got married six months later to Dixie. And she was. She was in my life more obviously than my mom, because my mom had passed away. Because when we're kids, we don't really remember them. And so Dixie. I think my dad got a second chance. I always thought that my mom brought Dixie to my dad because I think my dad would have been. He wouldn't have known to be alone because he was with my mom since they were like 18 or 17 years old. And so I think that. And then my dad ended up passing away just two years ago of the same cancer, too, which is unusual. So 24 years. They had melanoma, both of them. And so 24 years later, my dad got it.

Joanne Lockwood: Oh, that's sad. Yeah. But we took the genetic death as well. Is Dixie deaf as well? Yeah, she is. Yeah, she is. Yeah. And so he def. Had a second soulmate who was also deaf as well, which is. Yeah, I guess that's a beautiful storey as well. Yeah.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah. And I still talk to Dixie to this day. She's always been really sweet. I think that my dad would have been, I think, very lonely and lost, like you were saying, without my mom. So I've always been thankful that he found Dixie.

Joanne Lockwood: So melanoma, it's a skin cancer, is that right? Yeah,

Maria Gallucci: it's the skin cancer. Yeah. So my mom had it internally behind her eye from not wearing sunglasses, which I never knew that happens. Yeah. And then my dad had it on the back of his head. Yeah. I

Joanne Lockwood: think my dad had a. Because my dad lost a lot of his hair and he had, we think, a sort of developer on top of his head and also a lump on the back of his neck. But he was so old. He passed away when he was 92. So there was no point. There was no point doing. There was no point doing anything about it. It was just. Yeah. That he had some radiography to sort it out. But, yeah, my dad was in his early 70s. He was still young.

Maria Gallucci: My old. My mom was obviously younger, but my dad was still in his early 70s. Wow. He had a good life. Yeah, exactly. And he had a second chance at life too, which is good. And he did. Yeah. That's the important thing.

Joanne Lockwood: It's not about forgetting your first love. It's about continuing your life as well. You know, Alfred said this to my wife, and my wife's just around the corner. You know, I wouldn't expect her to mourn for me for the rest of her life. She's entitled to find a second love and I would wish her well if she wanted to. You know, you don't want to hold somebody to. In your legacy for the rest of their lives.

Maria Gallucci: Exactly. No, I agree. It goes through a period of

Joanne Lockwood: reflection and mourning. But life is for living.

Maria Gallucci: Yeah, exactly. And I think everybody goes through stages of life as well.

Joanne Lockwood: So how can people get a hold of you? What's the best way of tracking you down these days? So I have an Instagram and it's

Maria Gallucci: Galuchy Homes. And then my website is galluccihomes.com and then the book is raisedinsilence.com and Gallucci. Is

Joanne Lockwood: G, A, double L, U, double C, I. For those of you who are not Italian in your pronunciation and spelling. So give me something profound to finish on. I think the main

Maria Gallucci: thing is to just have connection, like try to communicate and have connection with people and then always just try with people. Try. Yeah. Because the fear of getting it

Joanne Lockwood: wrong is quite powerful sometimes, isn't it? We. We worry about saying something in case we get it wrong or mess up or. Yeah. And

Maria Gallucci: no one's perfect. But as long as you. You try, you. You've made an effort. Yeah. Because by not trying, you're

Joanne Lockwood: excluding. So giving it a go. Trying. Being brave. Maria, thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure and I've loved our conversation. As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites and become part of our ever growing community driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family and colleagues. Lets amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, storeys or a vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.