---
title: "Joyful Energy, Unbreakable Spirit"
episode: 191
date: 2026-01-09
guest: "Naseem Rochette"
canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/191-joyful-energy-unbreakable-spirit
audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-191/audio.mp3
---

# Joyful Energy, Unbreakable Spirit

Joanne Lockwood speaks with author and speaker Naseem Rochette about what it means to survive a life-altering traumatic event and consciously choose a different story afterward. Naseem recounts being hit and run over by a car three times in a pedestrian crosswalk, the physical aftermath (including ongoing effects of a traumatic brain injury), and the emotional impact of navigating other people’s reactions—especially the driver’s lack of remorse. She shares how that experience pushed her into a period of instability and the need for additional support, including trauma therapy and medication. Together, they explore the practical power of reframing: naming the anniversary “Unbreakable Day,” choosing words and energy intentionally, learning to accept help, and allowing vulnerability to deepen relationships. They also discuss how showing the “whole picture” (rather than a curated perfection) can create more genuine connection and belonging. The conversation leaves listeners with a grounded message: difficult moments can become turning points, not by denying pain, but by meeting it with kindness, perspective, and deliberate choices about what to carry forward.

## Chapters

- 00:00 — Introduction & Welcome
- 01:30 — Joyful Energy, Breakable Spirit
- 05:08 — Finding Joy Through Adversity
- 07:44 — Discovering Joy Through Positivity
- 12:28 — Surviving a Life-Changing Accident
- 14:08 — Unspoken Gratitude for Connections
- 18:27 — Surviving the Unbelievable Accident
- 20:42 — Forgiveness Despite Her Actions
- 23:38 — Sadness, Disappointment, and Reconciliation
- 26:21 — Collision, Denial, and Disconnection
- 32:08 — Memoir of Transformation and Growth
- 33:20 — Growth Through Adversity
- 39:05 — Be Kinder to Yourself
- 41:21 — Power in Tough Moments
- 44:55 — Grace, Kindness, and Connection
- 47:25 — Authenticity Strengthens Social Connections
- 51:45 — Embracing Change After Brain Injury
- 52:51 — Empathy Through Shared Struggles
- 56:19 — Fostering Inclusion, Until Next Time

## Key takeaways

- The role of reframing traumatic experiences to serve as catalysts for growth and self-discovery.
- How intentionally radiating positive energy influences personal well-being and the wider community.
- The impact of language and narrative in shaping resilience and mental health post-trauma.
- Why embracing vulnerability enhances empathy and connection within personal and professional relationships.
- Strategies for cultivating self-kindness and letting go of self-judgement after disruptive change.
- The importance of recognising everyone’s unseen struggles and meeting people where they are.
- Practical approaches for setting boundaries and prioritising relationships that replenish rather than drain personal energy.

## Transcript

Joanne Lockwood: Foreign. Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share storeys that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 191 with the title Joyful Energy, Breakable Spirit. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Naseem Rochette. Naseem is an award winning author, a keynote speaker and joy seeker who seeks to help people reframe their storeys and help discover growth in life's toughest moments. When I asked Naseem to describe her superpower, she said that it is radiating joyful energy that inspires optimism in the face of adversity. Wow. Hello, Naseem, welcome to the show. Hi, Jo.

Naseem Rochette: Thank you for having me. And I hope that's my superpower. That's what I try. Sounds amazing. And

Joanne Lockwood: wow. I'm judging by the accent, you're not over here in the uk, where I'm based. Whereabouts in the world are you? I

Naseem Rochette: wish that I were, but no, I am in New Jersey. Not that I don't love, you know, my life here in New Jersey, but I do love the uk. Yeah, it's a hot, sunny May Day. No, June day here in New Jersey. Wow. Is it

Joanne Lockwood: disproportionately warm? You know, it's like talking about the weather. Is it? Is it, you

Naseem Rochette: know, like, it's a perfect day, but my office is my third floor attic, so it's a little bit hot up here. But, you know, I shouldn't complain about the sun. No, no, there's plenty

Joanne Lockwood: of going on in the world right now that we can complain about. The sun. The sun, yes. There's plenty of craziness in

Naseem Rochette: the world right now. I need to appreciate. We always, although we always need to appreciate the little things especially, yeah, we're.

Joanne Lockwood: Less than a week on from the audacious Ukrainian drone strike, aren't we where it, that's just to put a date and time on this, you know, that was a bit audacious. Zelensky Web. Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of

Naseem Rochette: very concerning stuff going on in the world here in the U.S. you know, in the Mideast, in Europe. It's really hard to believe, which is why I think it's even more important. I love the work that you do, Jo, in making people feel included, because there is so much in the world that's happening that is, could, could divide us further. Yeah, no, I agree. And

Joanne Lockwood: it's, we get around the table and start having conversations around a table rather than throwing rocks at each other across the, across the garden wall, if you like. We're doing often. Yeah. So your, your superpower is about radiating joyful energy. As I said just now. Where did that come from? What got you into doing what you do? You know,

Naseem Rochette: so it's, it's interesting. So I've always, on some level, been a joy seeker. You know, I was, I was, When I was a kid, I was, I was kind of a happy kid, but I was also a really, really insecure kid, you know, just paralysed with fear, shy. I grew up in New Jersey. You know, when I grew up, I'm 54 now, there were really no Indians in my town. I'm, you know, I'm of Indian origin. And I always felt different and like I didn't belong. But I also, also had this happy, you know, this natural inclination to be happy. I had, you know, know, happy parents, you know, festive. Actually, my parents were crazy party animals. So, you know, I grew up in a very social environment. And so when I was, you know, the weekends with my family, I was, you know, very social and happy. But, you know, on the weekdays, I was just so uncomfortable and shy and insecure. And, you know, I took that insecurity with me actually for, or I lived in that insecurity for a long, long time. You know, I, I, I often say that it was, wasn't until my twenties that I really accepted who I was, that I was, that I was different and, or I thought differently. And that was all okay. And then it probably took me another 10 or 15 years to become somebody that I liked. And all through that, you know, I, I tried to, you know, I, I had this natural inclination to joy and, and how do I find happiness? How do I spread happiness? How do I make people feel good and, and make them feel different than I felt, which was uncomfortable and alone and insecure. And I think that that has just, it's just served like the joy feeds joy. Oh, I think the joy keeps me energetic and young and you know, I know we'll talk about. I had a very traumatic accident seven years ago and I think it's that desire to get back to joy and the, you know, when I was. Thought I was dying, you know, like thinking about the joy of my life, I think those things kept me going, you know, and so I try to keep that front and centre. I mean, you know, we all say we only live once. Actually I saw, actually I saw a great little cartoon on my Instagram recently that said it was like a Snoopy and Charlie Brown. And I think Charlie Brown said, you know, we only live once. And Snoopy said, no, we only die once. We live every day. And I want to live every day with that joy. That's beautiful. That's a really

Joanne Lockwood: beautiful. Yeah, I love that. I think I remember saying that and at the time I remember almost like a little tear came in my eye. You could feel that inside, can't you? I really, I do. I think

Naseem Rochette: about it all the time. We live every day. I

Joanne Lockwood: didn't, I didn't realise myself that joy was a thing until, until that Disney Pixar movie Inside Out. And one of the characters, haven't you. Oh, you've got to see it. It's one and two. There's two now, but one of the characters, basically little characters in the little girl's head. And one of the characters is Anger. That little red man type characters, always, always angry about something, like a little, like a two year old always angry about something. And then what happens is Joy, who's the female character, effectively sellotapes anger to a chair and says, right, you're over there, I'm now running this body. I love that. I went through a similar epiphany where I realised that Joy suddenly took over my life and that I'd spent a lot of time with anxiety. I spent a lot of time with anger and a lot of time all these other emotions in your head. And by centering Joy, that allowed me to see the world and my life more clearly. So I'm with you here about discovering joy. It's amazing. You know, it's interesting you say that about discovering Joy

Naseem Rochette: because I don't know that I used the word joy up until recently. I don't think I knew it was a thing. As I reflect back, I know I felt it, but I actually think, you know, some of the ways that I solidified it solidified maybe that word or that idea was. Again, during my accident and journey, I realised that energy feeds energy. You know, we. And I really believed and learned the effect of having a positive energy and how that drives momentum. And I realised that just by the words that I choose and the energy that I put forth. I drive different reactions in the people around me. And it doesn't mean life is always easy. And all our conversations are like, you know, flowers and rainbows and stuff like that, but the words we choose, the way we say it, you know, the, the tone of our voice, all of that, you know, tells a different storey. And if we focus on a storey with a positive outcome, with, you know, a belief in joy or an underlying, you know, respect and desire for joy, I think we drive a much more positive energy. So you had a pretty significant. Should

Joanne Lockwood: we call it an event? Yeah, understated event, which you can. Obviously you're gonna. You're gonna talk a bit about some seven or eight years ago as you, as you, as you've mentioned here already, you've hinted at this and this is. You call it your unbreakable day and tell me what was leading up rather, rather than the day itself. What's going on in your life the week before. Yeah, I guess,

Naseem Rochette: you know, we. We really can't have a conversation. I should, should let. Let all your listeners know what happened because it is so central to so much of how I think and talk about. So, you know, I mentioned that I was very insecure. I worked really hard to like who I was. Well, on May 21, 2018, so seven years ago, you know, I woke up on another beautiful sunny day. I'm feeling really good about myself, really happy in command. You know, I have three kids, one working full time. I worked at Microsoft back then. A really robust life that I worked so hard to build and so hard to appreciate. And, you know, I juggled it all. And Jo, I like to say, you know, I juggled it all and I made it look easy. It wasn't easy, but I took pride in the fact that I could manage all of this. And, you know, I grew up in a household where women were strong and we didn't ask for help. You know, not asking for help was a source of pride. So, you know, I started out my day like that. And by that afternoon, I was in a hospital. I had been hit by a car and run over three times. The car hit me and then stopped and then drove over me and then reversed over me and then drove over me a third time. And I was pinned underneath the car. And I'll just let that sit for a minute because I know it's a lot. I know there's, there's. That's not

Joanne Lockwood: accidental, is it? You know, it seems like it wouldn't be,

Naseem Rochette: but it was, you know, and my husband was actually watching the whole thing. I was in a pedestrian crosswalk just a couple miles from my house in New Jersey when a car, you know, a car turned and hit me in the crosswalk. And the car actually stopped at first. And then, you know, we don't know why the driver did all the things. You know, I actually, I wrote a book about the storey, the unexpected benefits of being run over. Because there's so much to talk about just in that event, you know, and I don't know what the driver was thinking, but it wasn't a hit. You know, my husband didn't hire anyone to kill me, luckily. And we think we, you know, we believe the driver just had a lot of really bad judgement, you know.

Joanne Lockwood: Compounded that by reverse, you know, lost spatial awareness. Didn't know what was going on, didn't know where you were. Yeah, I mean, I

Naseem Rochette: have some theories. I think maybe she was trying to flee the scene, maybe she was trying to then get back to where she hit me in the crosswalk. You know, maybe eventually she was just trying to get off me. But, you know, everybody was screaming, you know, just stop. And I, you know, I was conscious through the whole event. God, I always get a little even, you know, seven years later talking about it. I was, you know, I went from everything to, you know, initially having that, oh my gosh, she's hitting me on this great day, you know, I'm feeling so good. I've had such a wonderful day and not worried, you know, thinking I might be a little black and blue, but no biggie, you know, cocktail party, storey, whatever. I got hit by a car today, haha. To, you know, then when she ran over me, you know, I was, I was wriggling, I was trying to get out from underneath it, you know, I didn't, I didn't want to die. And then when she reversed over me, I remember thinking there's something wrong. Like I could hear in my husband's voice that he was watching me die. I could hear it in the screams of all the people watching it, that they were watching someone die. And I had, in those moments, which I'm, you know, actually feel, I call it a magical accident because there's so much that I feel lucky for and that I think I have learned. And one of those things was when I was underneath the car thinking, you know, I don't even say 99, I was a hundred percent sure I was going to die. I started reflecting back on my life and you know, having those end of life thoughts. And I remember thinking, you know, why didn't I write my kids letters? I travelled. Every time I get on a plane I'd think, oh, I should write them letters just in case, you know, I never did it. And then, you know, my thoughts and it was like 20 minutes of conversation even, you know, in these matter of seconds, you know, cause everything was in slow motion for me. And then I came to the conclusion that although I didn't write my kids any letters, you know, we've had so much joy, you know, we've had great vacations, we would dance around the kitchen. We were like, we're a happy gang. And I thought, you know, even though I'm. They're going to lose their mom, they know who I am because we've had that joy. I've been present, I've, I've filled, you know, their life with love and I felt so good about that. But you know what Jo? I also realised that I did that for my kids, but I didn't do that for the other people in my life. No one else really knew how important they were. I wasn't super effusive and appreciative, you know, I was always like nice and caring. But I don't think most people in my life that had an impact, whether big or small, knew the positive effects or that I appreciated, you know, what they did. And I felt like there was a lot left unsaid in the, you know, in the community and in my friend circle and that I felt, felt some regret. But both of those things really helped me afterwards in how I wanted to live. There were, there were no thoughts about I should have saved more money, I wish I got more promotions. It was, it was all about people in the people I connected with. As

Joanne Lockwood: you're talking, as you first started talking about that and I, I have a habit of not reading the briefing notes that you sent through. So I, I flicked through it and I saw something about being unbreakable, I saw something about being a life changing but I didn't really get into the weeds of that and I, I've, I've effectively discovered everything you just said at the same time. If you're listening to this, I heard that for the same time and as you were describing it, the visual Image I had in my head was the end of the previous series of Handmaid's Tale. And if you've seen this, but the lead character, June, she gets run over by a pickup and that person is trying to hurt them and they're reversing back. So you're. You're describing it. I didn't hear that. For me.

Naseem Rochette: Cause, no, I didn't see it yet. But. Sorry, spoiler

Joanne Lockwood: alert. Spoiler alert. But the good news is she survives and she's a fighter like you. But. So I've got this real image in my head of. As you were describing it, I had a vision. I wasn't trying to create a picture. I had one. And that's why it was impactful for me. And when you tell that storey to people, people go, obviously, they're shocked, they're stunned. Do they know what to say? Do they know what to ask? Cause I've got loads of questions in my head. I'm thinking, I'm going to ask these questions in a bit because that's one of the privileges I have of being the host on this show. But do people struggle to sort of.

Naseem Rochette: To say they do? I try to give people a minute to digest it, you know, when. When there's time, because I often forget quite how ridiculous it is. And I think people, people, their first reaction is, you know, I'm sorry. Like, that's so horrible. But what's interesting is, for me is it's. It's like I learned so much. There's so much joy that has come out of it that I don't look at it as. You know, actually recently I had to do this timeline of positive and negative things. And the accident, oddly, was not a negative thing. You know, it was on the positive trajectory because of all I learned. But, you know, as you said, people definitely don't know what to say when it happened. In fact, you know, I don't know if these things are funny. They're funny to me. But when I did write the book, and the book came out and I explained quite the seriousness of the journey and all the things that I learned. Learned. So many people in the periphery of my life said, you know, when I heard the storey, I thought someone was kidding. I didn't actually believe that you were run over three times. Most people just. It's just so nonsensical that I would be run over three times, that a lot of people just didn't believe that it was true. My dad.

Joanne Lockwood: I'm going to ask. I'm going to ask the question that's going through my head. And if you're listening to this, I'm trying to ask the question on your behalf as well. These are the questions that people say, oh, you should never ask that. You should never. It obviously hurt. Which part of you was run over or was it. Or was it all over? So I was. So when

Naseem Rochette: the car first hit, it was, you know, kind of chest level. It was a big suv, a big white SUV when it. And then, you know, the tyres went over me five times. So they went over my. My knees, they went over my chest. And this is the craziest. They went over my head and neck. So, you know, it. It went over my head and over my neck. The cars went over my, My head. And I remember. And Jo, the, the look you like. That was how I was thinking about it after, because I was conscious and I knew what happened. My husband saw what happened. Other people saw what happened. But I thought, how can a car run over my head and neck and run over me and I'm still alive. And I remember after the accident, I kept wondering, like, it couldn't have really happened. Like, there's no way that really happened. And a week later, and I call this, you know, again, if anyone sees my website or book or anything, you might see this picture. There is a picture of my neck with tyre marks that showed up a few days later. And I call that my favourite accident picture because it was the proof that it really did happen. I mean, I had the pain, but I. I didn't really believe it. And here's another crazy thing. I didn't break any bones.

Joanne Lockwood: That was my next question. So you didn't break any bones? No, I mean, I.

Naseem Rochette: I had a lot of very serious injuries. You know, I was crushed. So, you know, I had a lot of internal injuries. You know, I couldn't walk. I had to have surgery on my eye. You know, I had nerve damage. You know, I was pretty immobile for a while. And I have a traumatic brain injury. I, I still, you know, I, I don't think how I used to think, but I didn't break any bones. So I was actually never admitted to the hospital. So 24 hours later, I was back at home trying to navigate what, being a mom. Yeah, yeah, that was probably one of the hardest. You know, there. There were many things that were hard that was very hard. The driver's lack of remorse was really hard. There were a couple things that probably didn't need to be as hard that were, you know, real lessons. So you said to the driver's lack of remorse.

Joanne Lockwood: They understand the gravity of what happened. It was kind of like, were they trying to imprint it was your fault for getting in the way or something? Yeah, kind

Naseem Rochette: of. So at the. At the scene, the driver. So my husband was at the scene. So the driver got out of the car, and she was like a toddler throwing a tantrum. And my husband actually said, like, don't you even care what happened to her? Like, she didn't even. She just seemed to be worried about herself. And, you know, I remember the. The witnesses, you know, the other people there had to move her away because they couldn't even talk to me, to try to keep me conscious and alert because of all her screaming. And. But look, you know, that. That's shock. You know, I actually held. But, yeah, trauma. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. And. And I thought, you know, she didn't mean to run over me three times. Like, obviously, a lot of bad decisions, bad judgement, but I actually held no ill will to. And when I said, you know, we got a notice in the mail, like a victim's notice, that she was going to be in court, you know, four or five weeks later. So my husband and my daughter and I went to the courthouse, and she was just a few feet away from me. You know, I was bandaged, Cane, you know, scars on my face, you know, glasses, like, you know, I was. I was still in bad shape. And, you know, she had seen my husband, and she was a few feet away, didn't acknowledge us, you know, nothing. There was, like, no human kindness or interaction or, you know, I hope you're okay, or anything. And I remember it was like someone pushed me off a cliff at that moment. That's the moment that I fully lost control of, you know, my emotions. There was no joy because till that. Till that day, I felt no ill will. She didn't mean to do it. But when I saw no kindness, no connection, nothing from her, it just broke me. I'm just thinking, if

Joanne Lockwood: she'd have come up to you in tears, full of remorse and devastated, and say, can we hug? You'd have gone, of course we could hug. Couldn't you? You could have done that. But as you say, because someone doesn't treat you in that way, that there's no acknowledgment of your pain, your trauma and your family and everyone who knows you, then I'm more upset around that reaction than I am around.

Naseem Rochette: Yeah. As you are. As you say, that's where you lost it. Yeah. Really. Really. You know, when I Say like pushed me off a cliff. I actually that day I went home and you know, when my kids think about this day, they still get teary eyed because the mom that was so joyful was, you know, the happy life we had on that day, it hit rock bottom, you know, I went home, I remember my youngest child said, asked if he could go to the pool. You know, it was a nice day. And I started screaming at him. I was screaming at our babysitter at all my kids. Like they, they didn't know who they were getting when they would ask me something because I just, I was so broken, you know, for a minute. And then that's actually the day that I started. I realised that I no longer could control my mental state without more help. And I started on antidepressants and anti anxiety that day. I love analogies and

Joanne Lockwood: metaphors and similes and things like this. And what's jumping into my head here is Star Wars Jedis and Siths and the hard thing here is trying to stay in the Jedi camp and not get engrossed with anger and revenge and all that. That must have been really difficult because it sounds like you were leaning into the Sith there in the dark side, weren't you?

Naseem Rochette: Well, yeah, you know, I, it's, it's strange. I'm not sure that it was ever anger. I think it was anger for my husband and for my daughter and you know, all the people that loved me. But for me it was just such a sadness, such a disappointment, you know. And I don't know that I've ever really had anger for her, but I've just, you know, I just, I just felt sad. You know, I still feel sad, but I, you know, I focus on the life that I get to lead and the way that I treat people and the decisions I make. And you know, I've also, I've also come to reconcile it. You know, one of the other things that I learned during this journey is sometimes the people you think are going to show up for you in your times of need don't or don't show up the way you expect them to show up for you. What I have realised is that we have no idea the traumas and the triggers of the people around us. For instance, today nobody looks at me and says, wow, she was run over three times. Like I'm sure she can't cross the street. Like no one has any idea what goes on. And I think that, I think that people, you know, we don't necessarily know what those triggers are for the People around us. And I think that my accident, and seeing me broken and bruised and disfigured and just so weak after being so such a strong person, you know, it was. Was hard for people. And I think that. That sometimes they can't show up. It's. It's their defence mechanism, you know, it's their body protecting them, their mind protecting them. And so I now attribute that to the driver. Maybe the way that she deals with that accident is by pretending it didn't happen. And is that how I would deal with it? No. But maybe that's her way of protecting herself. I don't live that way. But you know what? I.

Joanne Lockwood: Do a lot of training on challenging conversations and workplace conflicts, all this kind of thing. And one of the golden rules is you have to meet people where they're at, you have to understand where someone is, because if you start judging them by where you're at, you have no idea what's going on in their life. And you somehow, to create that relatable experience, you have to find out where they are. I guess you don't really know where she was or what she's at. So by judging her, she may well have been in abusive relationships, you may have been trying to escape something. She may have had, I don't know, something going on in her mind or her own mental health concerns. And by judging it by your standards isn't really. It's not going to get anywhere. So, yeah, that must be the frustration, I suppose, is it sounds like today, even now, you're not sure where she was at. It just. Yeah, I

Naseem Rochette: mean, I saw her a few years later, you know, the insurance legal team was deposing us. And when I saw her that day, too, I was going around introducing myself to everybody, you know, and when I didn't know she was going to be there and when she walked in, I didn't want to be rude, I went and I shook her hand and I introduced myself. And I remember even at that moment feeling like, squeeze my hand, do something. And I didn't get that. And then when she talked about the accident, she almost talked about it like, I wasn't really in a crosswalk, there weren't really people there. She, like, that witnessed it, you know, almost said it didn't happen. And that is her defence. That's where she is, that's where she's staying. And I'm just. I'm not engaging. No. When you come across people

Joanne Lockwood: with personality disorders, narcissistic tendencies, whatever it may be, you have to disengage and step away, because nothing you can say will change that.

Naseem Rochette: Yeah. And as you said, you know, it's. It's meeting them where they are, you know, if that's where they are, and that's whether it's by situation or, you know, by intention. I assume that the law

Joanne Lockwood: and law enforcement gave her something to think about. No. She lost her. Her licence for 10

Naseem Rochette: days and got a ticket of her failure to yield to a pedestrian.

Joanne Lockwood: Is that it? Not attempted murder or attempted manslaughter or grievous bodily harm.

Naseem Rochette: No, there was nothing. Just a traffic violation. Wow, that must

Joanne Lockwood: have been salt on the wound. It was, yeah. Yeah. Especially when I was,

Naseem Rochette: you know, so. So, you know, badly injured and, you know, how my life changed. I couldn't drive for, you know, several weeks, couple months, you know, and she lost her licence for 10 days. But, you know, again, there was so much that I've learned from it, you know, that I can only focus, or I am choosing to focus on what I can control.

Joanne Lockwood: I mean, I just think you could have done an O.J. simpson and gone for a civil claim, couldn't you? And sort of. If the law doesn't protect you, then we do the civil. You know, the thing,

Naseem Rochette: though, is then it keeps that wound open for me. Yeah, it

Joanne Lockwood: does, yeah. And look, you know, we've. I'm. I'm very

Naseem Rochette: fortunate, you know, I have a good job, good family, happy life. You know, obviously, there are always challenges and this was very challenging and has changed me, but, you know, I want to focus on. On all that. Good.

Joanne Lockwood: And you've got a storey. You got a book. I do have a book. And

Naseem Rochette: actually, so the book, you know, the unexpected benefits of being run over and that is, you know, many people think it's figurative, but it's literal. Yeah. The book is actually something I had no plan to write. So when the accident happened and I went to the hospital and we discovered I didn't break any bones, many of the nurses and doctors, you know, it was a. It was a miracle and kept saying, you need to pay it forward. You know, you need to. You need to do something. You know, this is a miracle. And I remember thinking, you know, I. I can't even open my eyes. I can't move. Like, I don't want the burden of having to pay it forward. But it did plant a seed. And, you know, I kept thinking about how, you know, how can I make something good out of this? And one of the things that happened, you know, in that first year, you know, I I talk about joy and a happy life. My life wasn't so happy after this accident. I would wake up crying every day. I couldn't move. My brain didn't work. You know, I. You know, I couldn't hold a coffee cup, I couldn't zip my sweatshirt. You know, I couldn't fill out a camp form. Like all those things that you don't think about, I couldn't do. It was very, very, very hard. But we made the decision. You know, you talked about Unbreakable Day. We made the decision that we were going to get back to a happy storey. And the day of the accident wasn't going to be the day that almost killed me. It was going to be the day that I survived. And we reframed it, you know, and that reframing allowed us to really change the energy around the storey. I didn't die that day when I should have. I survived. And then we started to look at all of the things that you learn in those moments. Because the accident didn't just happen to me. It happened to everyone that loved me. It happened to my kids, to my husband, to my friends. And there's so many things that I learned, you know, one of which is people needed to help me in their. To heal themselves. And I needed to learn how to let them. I mentioned, I tried to make it look easy and, you know, not accepting help was strength to me. But I learned that accepting help, letting people help, is actually another dimension of strength. And sometimes that's about them because they need to participate in the journey, you know, whether or not I, I might need the support, you know, and, and that when you let yourself have the support, sometimes it's just really, it's really beautiful how people want to give and help and, you know, do good. So those were, so those were some of the things I was learning. And I would send out, you know, an email every year on, on Unbreakable Day and, and say, you know, here are some of the things that I learned. That was my way of paying it forward. And when we were in lockdown with COVID I realised some of those things that I learned would be of value on a broader basis. We were living in, like, this giant Unbreakable Day. And honestly, if I could have, if I could have just said, hey, here are these 10 lessons world, you know, take that, you know, I'm, I'm done. I would have just shared that and probably not have a book or anything. You know, I realised people need to know the context and my storey for those lessons to really have meaning. You know, there's a, there's a section in my book called the Sermon and those are my, Those are my 10 lessons. But the first couple parts of the book are about who I am, the journey, how my first transformation of being a person I like to that person falling, falling apart and then having to rebuild and hopefully being a better, stronger person, you know, or a different, you know, more, more connected person, you know, that's, that's kind of how the book happened. The book, you know, is, is often regarded as a self help or an inspiration or motivational, but it is also a memoir. And it's, you know, I'm sharing probably a lot more than I would ever have been comfortable sharing with people about, you know, the struggles, about, you know, my insecurities as a child. You know, candidly, you know, I'll share about a, you know, a suicide attempt that I had never, ever talked about, but then realised even, you know, young people especially need to know the storey can change, your storey can change. And there's so much power in reframing. And so that's, that's why the book happened because I felt people need an inventory and they need to know that it's possible to come out of something really, really horrible and be okay. And you might not be the person you were before, but you, that doesn't have to be bad. You have to be kind enough to not judge yourself for that. And it was lessons like that that I felt were so important to share. Because, you know, another thing I learned through this journey was that we all go through something. I was run over by a car three times, that maybe people haven't experienced that, but people have experienced deaths and job losses and other accidents and things that are traumatic. We've all gone through something and when we share what we've been through, we, we also give licence to other people to share. Are you brave?

Joanne Lockwood: I'm sure people say to you, you're brave all the time. So are you.

Naseem Rochette: I'm joyful. Joyful. Good. Good

Joanne Lockwood: answer. Maybe I'm brave only to be, you know, only to reach that joy. I find, you know, and many people I know who've been through something really significant in their life, people come out and go, they want to tell you how brave you are, tell you how I couldn't have done that. And they want to sort of put this on you and then you want them to go, it's okay, you could have done it too. I've not anyone special. And you feel like you have to go through this sort of, this way of letting someone down and go, I'm just a human being. I've just dealt with. I'm just playing the cards that I given at the time. In 10 seconds of my life, suddenly I went from being this person to this person. I wasn't brave, I just carried on, actually. And, you know, I'm so glad you, you, you

Naseem Rochette: brought that point up because something I should share is a way that I learned to talk about how this is just my journey. So when right after the accident, I had, you know, as. As much as I didn't like accepting help from people, you know, that I was close to me. My doctors convinced me to see a trauma therapist and the trauma therapist taught me about the, The Japanese art of kintsugi, where you take a broken piece of pottery and you put it back together with a gold Ted lasso. Broken, isn't it? On

Joanne Lockwood: Ted lasso, yeah. And, you know, and, and the philosophy is that gold

Naseem Rochette: inlay, those cracks make the vase more beautiful. And I really, really caught, you know, latched onto that idea. And actually I would even. I had scars all over my face. I would put gold glitter on my scars, you know, rather than try to hide them, because I decided this was, this was my journey. And just that idea allowed me to talk about my struggles, not as a victim, but this is my journey. And just having, realising that reframing let me be more open and more vulnerable and share in ways that I couldn't have before. Do you ever get that feeling where

Joanne Lockwood: you press pause on your life for a moment and you were kind of above looking down at you going, I now see everything more clearly. I see where I am in the world, what's going on around. Do you ever get that kind of allow yourself to see a bigger perspective of who you were? Did that happen? You know, I think in

Naseem Rochette: moments it did, you know, and there was in that early year, even in those first moments, I mean, I, like when I thought I was dying, you know, I felt, I think I had that clarity. Um, and I think, you know, in those early months, in that first maybe year or two years, I had a more acute appreciation. But it, it goes away if you don't purposely remind yourself to embrace it. Like, I have a, you know, a bunch of tattoos. I don't know if you can see them. Your listeners certainly can see them, but I, I have a bunch of tattoos on my arms now to remind me of things that I learned from the accident because, you know, I'm not all of a sudden enlightened I, I don't, I don't have all this wisdom. I mean, I try to. Part of actually the, the gift of sharing. What I learned is that I have, I get to remind myself because I, you know, I, we, we have to actively, you know, work at many of these things. I mean, is it easier for me to share now and, and, you know, talk about my journey and my struggles and, you know, maybe what I would have called weaknesses? Absolutely. But I still have to be intentional about some of the other things I learned so that I can look at life, you know, more, you know, at a. At a kind of a more inclusive, broader level and appreciate and not get lost in the craziness of a moment or the weight of, you know, of a momentary struggle.

Joanne Lockwood: A lot of people get stuck down to fear of change, fear of the unknown, fear of what if. And I presume what you've been through, that barrier was taken away. You were in this situation. And the what if is I can't stay where I am. I've got to move on. I've got to grow. I've got to do something. How do you help people find their transformation where they can go from fear to can. Yeah, you know,

Naseem Rochette: and I, I think just in even what you said, it's, you know, changing from fear to can. Just think about it. It's. It's the words that you use. It's the storey you tell yourself. It's the way, like, you know, even. Let's just take the fact that we call the day of the accident Unbreakable Day, just by simply reframing and changing the words we use around what we call that moment. We've done something dramatically different, you know, for the people that we tell the storey to, for how we think about that moment and that day. And it's, it's actually just little things in the reframing and, you know, I, I often talk about being kind to yourself, and it's. Actually, I talk about it because many of the people that first read the book said that's what they took, that they needed to learn to be kinder to themselves because we are so judgy with ourselves, you know, but if we, we remember, like, it's okay if we're not. Life is going to change. It is absolutely going to change. So there's, there's, you know, but if it's different from the way it was a year ago, it doesn't have to be bad. You know, maybe there's some differences that you like more than others or dislike more than Others. But the way we think about it, the words we use around it, the words and how we talk about it to the people around us, all of those things have a huge, huge impact on how we will feel those things, on how our body will react to those things. I actually have had people say to me that on the days of their accidents they used to just crawl up in a ball in bed and, or hide in a closet and just be sad and miserable. But when they started reframing to those days as their unbreakable days, they started going out and celebrating. They started having, you know, like ice cream and parties and just making those days special. And all it was is a reframing. One of the things I always

Joanne Lockwood: reflect on is that when you're trying to sort your life out, you've collected so much baggage over the years. You know, the responsibilities, the things, stuff you have in your life. But when it comes to making decisions, you think, well, what can I get rid of, what can I lose? It's very difficult to sort of peel bits away because they're kind of part of what you've got. But when you have, when you start from nothing, you can then choose what to bring on. What luggage do I want to now bring on my journey and just shed everything and say, right, I guess you had a day zero sort of effect where you had nothing because you were just millimetres away from having dying guess or moments away from dying. So you, you've been able to re. Establish your journey of life with stuff that's important. Yeah, I mean the, the traumas I think for,

Naseem Rochette: for all of us are a demarcation point. You know, there's definitely like life before, you know, and life after. But, but I will say and something that I, you know, I talk about when I do coaching or keynotes is, you know, there's so much power in those tough moments. There's so much we learn and grow from that most of us don't spend any time thinking about because tough moments always seem like downers. Let's not talk about those downers, let's put em in the closet and you know, never talk about them again. But when we, we actually take some time to both appreciate and hey, I've navigated something that was really challenging. I did that, you know, my family did that, my friends helped me through that. Yeah, that was really, that was really great that we, we were able to, to navigate that tough moment. And believe me, it doesn't mean the tough moment wasn't tough. You know, I lost my parents a couple of years ago. There's nothing joyful about me losing my parents. But are there things in ways that I've grown that I can appreciate? Absolutely. Being run over is obviously a tough moment. Everybody has tough moments. But if you stop and you think, well, what did I learn from that? You're again, changing it from baggage to almost badges, you know, that. That you can feel proud of. Bit like being a girl

Joanne Lockwood: Guide again and getting your cooking badge or your sewing badge or something.

Naseem Rochette: I never got any of those. I was camp cook once. You know,

Joanne Lockwood: I got camp cook badge, chicken in a pot. I think it was, I think, something very simple. I was only 10, I think. Yeah, I was quite happy with that. So when you're navigating the world now, as well as coaching others, how do you find yourself approaching these big crossroads, these big decision points in your life now? How do you approach things differently? You know, for me, joy is one of my

Naseem Rochette: guiding principles. And I think about, you know, does it. Does it bring me joy or does it bring me stress? And if it's bringing me stress, you know, and it's a situation that I want to stay in, you know, then we need to break down. Why is it bringing me stress? And, you know, if it's a situation that's bringing you stress also, you have to ask yourself, is it a situation you can get out of and what's the cost of getting out of it? And I. So that's how I. I often, you know, work with people. I mean, what are their guiding principles? Mine is joy. And so. So what are, you know, what are the things that you want to feel on a. On a daily basis? And, you know, once, you know, once we can figure out some idea of that, it's. How do we reach that state more often? Are you less tolerant of

Joanne Lockwood: people? More tolerant of people? Now, let's see. I.

Naseem Rochette: I don't. That's a good question. I mean, honestly, my kids like to call me a little judgy, but I'm. Just thinking in terms of, you know, what

Joanne Lockwood: you're saying about joy, and it's not bringing you joy, it's bringing you stress. Do you. Do you apply that principle to relationships where you think, hang on a minute. You are not bringing me joy in this relationship. We. We are not compatible anymore. I'm out. Yeah. You know, I. I don't know that I'm. I.

Naseem Rochette: I definitely direct my life towards the joy. I don't know that I'd say. I'm like, I try to, as. As we talked about earlier, accept People where they are, and if they're in a place that isn't right for me, then I'll just try to spend less time with them. But when the time that I spend with them, I try to be as giving and kind and tolerant, you know, as I can be. Because, you know, as we. We've talked about, people feeling connected is so important and sometimes just accepting that if we build a better connection, the engagement or relationship might. Might evolve and drastically improve. You know, sometimes I get, you know, I'll hear people, you know, sometimes people are grumpy, you know, and I'll. For instance, you know, I try not to judge someone in that moment, you know, but think about what. Why are they in that state? You know, just like you had talked about earlier, meeting them where they are. So I try to be tolerant in that way and giving them more grace and kindness. So maybe I'm less, you know, when something someone said to me a year after the accident was, they. They told me that I was. Before the accident, I was an unsympathetic character that, you know, I kind of had it put together and, you know, I look like it was easy and, you know, not that any of it was, but I was proud of that. You

Joanne Lockwood: had a Persona. Yeah. And I shit together. Persona sort of thing.

Naseem Rochette: Yes, exactly. You know, and so now I try to make me more vulnerable so that, you know, other people that I can be more accepting and open and inclusive to people connecting. Because often the people that are. I might have been judgy about are just feeling alone. That must be part of your superpower,

Joanne Lockwood: which is radiating joyful energy. So if you go in with a frown, that's not radiating joyful energy, is it? So my approach is I tend to turn the volume down on people that don't bring me joy. There's a phrase, hang out with radiators, not drains. Drains will steal your energy. I'm stealing that. Dementors from Harry Potter. They suck the energy out of you. So on social media, what I do is I unfollow somebody. If I don't want to hear from them, I don't go into their post and tell them what I think. I just turn the volume down to unfollow. That way, if they want to keep following me, they want to still see me, they want to still get value from that relationship, that's fine. And if they. They bump into me, I'm still there. And so I think blocking and unfriending and things like that are very. They're very proactive. States to get people out of your life. Turn the volume down. Your noise doesn't bring me joy. That's fine, doesn't matter. It brings other people joy. That's up to them. So, yeah, turn the volume down.

Naseem Rochette: Do that too. And actually, speaking of social media, you know, one of the things that I think is important to talk about now and is that, like, you know, I talked to my, you know, my kids are teenagers and in college or kind of adult kids, but, you know, when people are always posting just like, oh, my life is so great and perfect, you know, they don't. I think people don't realise they're making themselves unsympathetic characters and they're losing connection with people, you know, and I think, you know, so one of the things that I do often in my talks is also try to remind people that, you know, if you're not showing the whole picture or sharing the whole picture, you're. You're losing out on the joy of connections. I think

Joanne Lockwood: when you think you talk about influencers and people that like that, and it has to be authentic, authentic vulnerability, not plastic or fake Barbie vulnerability. It's like, I'm having a really bad day. Everything's really awful today. And if you're not careful, you're trying to use that deliberate to, to bring people in with, you know, if you really are having a bad day, be honest. Yeah, yeah,

Naseem Rochette: yeah. So you can say something like, yeah, it's. It's a tough day. Send me your good energy, you know?

Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Why? Yeah, why? Just sometimes you leave it hanging, don't you? I'm having a really bad one today. What is it? What is it? What is it? Everyone keen to find out, you know. Oh, no, I can't say. Well, if you can't say, why tell me in the first place? If your dog died, tell us your dog died, you know, and then we'll go, oh, my lovely picture. Let's do that. Or if you haven't had kids, have messed up, or if you've been run over three times, just get it out. There, get it out there.

Naseem Rochette: Or, you know, just share it with people. The other question I've been keen to

Joanne Lockwood: ask you is, obviously this had a huge, big, traumatic. At the time you were injured, you had organs that were crushed and nerve injuries and things like that. How long did it take you to get to a point where you felt normal again, whatever that may mean? I don't. I don't know what normal means, but kind of back, back to a. I'm. I'm Good enough now. When,

Naseem Rochette: when the accident first happened and I found out I didn't break any bones. And I'm sorry about all that beeping. I. I actually said to my husband, I said, call my boss and tell him I'll be back to work on Thursday. This was a Monday. Cause I was like, if I didn't break any bones, you know, I'm sure I can go back to. Yeah, I'm just faking it

Joanne Lockwood: otherwise, aren't I? Just faking it. That's exactly right. Like, yeah, I

Naseem Rochette: didn't give myself any, you know, any grace. Obviously. I did not go back to work on Thursday. And it took me a long, you know, the recovery was very long. But my engagement back into my old life was. Was quick, maybe too quick. So I went back to work after eight weeks, you know, against doctor's orders. And I just felt like I needed to, like you said, feel like I wanted to feel normal. And for me, that was getting back to work and, you know, earning and supporting my family. And my. Actually my babysitter said the day that I went back to work, my kids were like different kids because they thought life would never be the same again. However, I went back to work and it was much too soon and I didn't have the physical or mental energy like I. I would still needed to sleep 16 hours, days. And so unfortunately, I gave my energy to work and then I had nothing for my family. And that probably took. And so, you know, I was still. And I was still a very unpredictable person. You know, I hadn't. It took me a long time to regulate my emotions. You know, it probably. I would say it was like a year and a half before I felt normal, but it wasn't the same. You know, it was a new normal. And you know, even now, I mean, I have, you know, I have a, you know, bad knee, I have, you know, back pain, neck pain, they're issues. You know, I can't bear music in multiple rooms. You know, I'm. Lots of sensitivities because of my brain injury, but that is my new normal. And so I don't think about those things. You know, it's just my new normal. And every day is.

Joanne Lockwood: It's more normal. It just who you are. And you put up a legacy. You now got history of who you are now. Yes. And I, you know, and

Naseem Rochette: I don't. And I'm not judging myself that I'm not that person that I was before. You know, I don't juggle like, I used to be a master of chaos and, you know, juggling a hundred things, you know, with loud, like, you know, even like clubbing at 3 o' clock in the morning, loud concerts, like, I loved all that extra stimulation. I can't tolerate or bear that anymore. But, you know, that's okay because I'm appreciating different things, you know, and I'll brag for a minute and that, you know, much to my surprise, when I went back to work, I thought I was never going to be as good as I used to be because I can't solve problems in the same way. But it turns out the new ways in which I solve problems and delve into things has been more successful for me. You know, with a traumatic brain injury, I've. I've actually, you know, been better able to serve my teams and my clients. So apart from Joy.

Joanne Lockwood: Apart from Joy, what is the one thing that you're most proud of about you? Now that wouldn't have occurred had it not been for Unbreakable Day? I think it's.

Naseem Rochette: It's really my ability to share what I thought was weakness, to share struggle and journey and understand what it feels like and how to relate to people when they're going through something tough, you know, for instance, like, you know, when. When someone goes through a death, you know, or a trauma, I think many people are very uncomfortable with, you know, what do you say? How do you respond, how do you act? Because of these experiences and because I think I've taken the time to explore what I've learned and how I've changed, I am. I don't feel as awkward, you know, in those moments, I can. I know that, you know, when somebody dies, like my saying I'm sorry about your loss isn't bringing it up because they're thinking about it all the time. You know, I know they're. And they appreciate that warmth and that connection. I know that now that when somebody's in trauma, asking them how they are is a really tough question because they don't know how they are and they don't want to lie to you and they don't want to pretend everything's fine. And so you're. You're making them do all this work internally. Whereas if I just say I'm thinking about you, I'm here for you. You know, a statement, not a question, I make it easier on them. So, you know, I think the other thing, you know, that's just. Just how to relate to people in those tough moments. You know, I'm. I'm lucky that I can. A fantastic conversation and

Joanne Lockwood: in a way, I'm really pleased. I didn't do too much research and I heard the storey at the same time as you listening. You got that kind of. Whoa. And I sat here and you said my face was a picture. I was literally stunned into sort of silence as I was picturing June Osborne in Handmaid's Tale being run over by the red rv, which I'd now ruined. Spoiler. Now I've got to

Naseem Rochette: go. There you go. Watch it. How

Joanne Lockwood: can people get hold of you? Tell us about your book. Tell us about your website and everything. Yeah, so my book is called the

Naseem Rochette: Unexpected Benefits Of Being Run Over. You can pretty much get it, you know, wherever books are sold or order. It certainly is on Amazon. And on Amazon, you can also get my audible, which is me telling the storey. So if you want to, you know, want to hear it and, you know, I've got a website, Naseem rochette.com where you can reach out if you, you know, you're interested in coaching or, you know, speaking or, you know, or LinkedIn. I'd love to say that I post a lot on social and share wisdom, but I'm not good at that yet, so. So you can buy my book on Amazon or reach out on Naseem Rochette.com. Thank you so much. It's been

Joanne Lockwood: amazing. Oh, thank you, Jo. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Bye. As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites and become part of our ever growing community driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, storeys or a vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.