---
title: "The Courage To Be Seen"
episode: 176
date: 2025-09-19
guest: "Ayce Kyptyn"
canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/176-the-courage-to-be-seen
audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-176/audio.mp3
---

# The Courage To Be Seen

Joanne Lockwood is joined by somatic sexologist Ayce Kyptyn to explore what it really takes to be seen and to live in alignment with who you are, especially when society, faith, and community have taught you to hide. Ayce shares how losing his job and the life he had built in 2022 triggered a deeper reckoning with years of repression and the pressure to conform. He talks candidly about realising he was trans, the pain of leaving behind family and an evangelical Christian community, and the relief and clarity that came with transition and finally recognising himself in the mirror. The conversation also unpacks Ayce’s work in somatic sexology: creating safe, non-judgemental spaces where people can reconnect with their bodies, explore desire without shame, and integrate parts of themselves they have learned to abandon. Joanne and Ayce discuss the Erotic Blueprint framework, how curiosity and presence can replace performance and escalation, and why trust, community, and support systems are essential for lasting change. Across identity, intimacy, and belonging, this episode invites listeners to question whose rules they are living by, and to consider what becomes possible when authenticity is treated not as a risk, but as a pathway to liberation.

## Chapters

- 00:00 — Introduction and Welcome
- 03:42 — Embracing Authentic Life Transformation
- 07:11 — Discovering Your True Self
- 11:59 — Embracing Authenticity Over Expectations
- 15:06 — "Transforming Pain Into Pleasure"
- 19:13 — Uncovering Repressed Selves in Therapy
- 21:15 — Discover Your Sexual Blueprint
- 25:37 — Challenging Social Conformity Norms
- 27:44 — "Embracing Complexity in Relationships"
- 31:58 — Escaping Through Adrenaline Rushes
- 34:49 — Session Progression and Exploration
- 37:24 — Challenging Traditional Male Roles
- 42:37 — Reevaluating Life Choices Early
- 47:42 — Finding Escape Velocity
- 48:55 — The Importance of Support Systems
- 51:48 — Join Our Inclusion Journey

## Key takeaways

- The distinction between societal personas and one’s authentic self, and why allowing all aspects of identity to exist is fundamental to well-being.
- The neurological and emotional shift that comes from hormonal transition, and how alignment between mind and body can foster confidence and self-acceptance.
- The impact of early life and religious upbringing on repressing desires and internal conflict, and methods for unlearning inherited beliefs.
- How the Erotic Blueprints framework can empower individuals and couples to communicate, explore, and fulfil their unique desires and preferences.
- Practical strategies for building safety and trust when sharing vulnerabilities—transforming shame into curiosity and self-ownership.
- Ways in which rediscovering and expressing repressed facets of the self can revitalise relationships and ignite personal growth.
- The essential role of supportive communities and professional guidance in navigating profound life transitions and finding deeper joy.

## FAQs

### Who is Ayce Kyptyn and what does he do?

Ayce Kyptyn is a somatic sexologist based in Boulder, Colorado. He supports individuals and couples in exploring their identities and achieving authenticity through somatic (body-focused) practices. His work centres on deep healing and embodied self-expression, often helping clients to overcome societal conditioning that limits their authentic selves.

### What does the term ‘somatic sexologist’ mean?

A somatic sexologist is a professional who combines the study of human sexuality (sexology) with somatic (body-centred) awareness. Ayce explained that this involves helping clients connect deeply with their bodies, recognise their authentic desires and identities, and experience pleasure and healing beyond intellectual understanding.

### Why did Ayce Kyptyn decide to become a somatic sexologist?

Ayce’s journey was rooted in personal upheaval: after losing his job, community, and sense of direction in 2022, he began examining his life choices. Realising he had been living according to others’ expectations, he sought therapy, discovered he was transgender, and pursued his own healing through somatic sexology—eventually becoming a practitioner to help others do the same.

### What are the ‘Erotic Blueprints’ and how do they relate to Ayce’s work?

Developed by somatic sexologist Jaya, the Erotic Blueprints is a framework that identifies five erotic ‘types’: Energetic, Sensual, Sexual, Kinky, and Shapeshifter. Each type describes distinct preferences and pathways to pleasure. Ayce utilises this framework to help clients understand their wiring, desires, and routes to fulfilment—in both sexuality and everyday living.

### How does societal conditioning affect personal identity and pleasure?

The episode delves into how societal expectations (around gender, sexuality, and behaviour) often lead individuals to suppress their true selves. Common themes include internalised shame, self-policing, and conforming to norms (e.g., prescribed gender roles). Over time, this can cause disconnection, unhappiness, and inauthenticity. Both Joanne and Ayce discuss how breaking out of these constraints is essential for genuine self-expression and wellbeing.

### What role does faith or religious upbringing play in Ayce’s journey?

Ayce shared that, as a former professional theologian and youth pastor in the evangelical Christian church, he felt strong internal conflict between doctrine and personal truth. Coming out as trans meant confronting deeply ingrained beliefs and, ultimately, leaving behind family, community, and a career that did not accept his gender identity. This highlights the significant struggles that faith-based environments can present for LGBTQ+ individuals.

## Transcript

Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 176 with the title the Courage To Be Seen. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Ayce Kyptyn. Ayce is a somatic sexologist on a mission to help others explore their identity and authenticity through deep healing and embodied self expression. When I asked Ayce to describe his superpower, he said it is being able to hold a compassionate space for others exists fully and truthfully. Hello, Ace, welcome to the show. Hey, Jo, it's nice

Ayce Kyptyn: to be on the show with you today. So whereabouts

Joanne Lockwood: are you in the world? From that accent, I'm guessing you're not in the uk.

Ayce Kyptyn: No, I'm originally from the Midwest of the United States, but I live in Boulder, Colorado. Boulder, Colorado, Wow. Is that. That's near the

Joanne Lockwood: Grand Canyon? Always a way. But we got the Rocky

Ayce Kyptyn: Mountains here and so I'm an avid jeeper, so I enjoy being outdoors, doing a lot of trail rides. So this is the perfect place for. Oh, that sounds awesome. That's loads of fun. Wow. Never been to Colorado. It's on the list. On the list, but yeah. Well, I got a place for you to stay if you come. So let us let. Let me, let me know. Ah, well, there we are. We've got a

Joanne Lockwood: date. Yeah. Give us sometime when it's possible. Yeah, let's see what we can do. So, Ace, a somatic sexologist. I mean that. I'm just. I'm just intrigued. Hopefully if you're listening to this, you're intrigued as well and you've had an interesting life journey, discovering yourself and I guess you're using some of that as a. As a lever to help others. So do you want to give us a bit of your story? Yeah, absolutely.

Ayce Kyptyn: So in 2022, my life fell apart. I lost everything. I lost my job, my family, my career. Like I had a 20 year career as a professional theologian. And I was let go due to a reorganisation and it was completely out of the blue and I was just building a custom lake house and so I went, oh, no, like I no longer have an income to afford the place that I live in. And basically what happened was my life was thrown into chaos. And from that I started questioning and critically thinking about how I lived my life for the first 38 years. And I realised that I wasn't being authentic to who I am. I was doing what everybody else in this world wanted me to do. And I think a lot of us do that. You know, we go to school, we get a job, because maybe our parents said, hey, this is the path you should take, but it's not necessarily the path that you wanted to take or I wanted to take in life. And so in losing everything, I started to critically think about how I got there and what I actually wanted to do with my life. And so as I was sitting on my therapist's couch, it became really clear to me that I was trans and I had lived a life as a female. I was an executive leader and that was all gone. And so I was like, how do I want to rebuild my life? And in such a way that I'm actually happy and enjoying the lifestyle that I have. And so I ended up watching a show called Sex, Love and Goop. It's on Netflix, it's free. It's a really fun show that you can binge watch over a weekend. But basically what happens is there's somatic sexologists that are taking clients into a room and as the storyline unfolds, you can see their lifestyle start to change and they're actually living a life of pleasure versus a life of pain. And so as I was watching the show, I was like, I need that in my life because I understand pain really well. I've been living a lifestyle of pain my entire life, but I would love to transform it into pleasure. And so I hired a somatic sexologist. I went and had my own sex loving, goop like experience. And my life was completely transformed because I was awakened to the sensations in my body and who I really am. And so from that I decided, you know what? I need to provide this experience for other people. And so I got trained in somatic sexology, got a bunch of certifications, and now that's what I'm doing. I'm helping other people land in their bodies and have an erotically liberated lifestyle. I've got loads of

Joanne Lockwood: questions in my head from that. First of all, there's two words, somatic and sexologist. Could you just maybe break each of those two words down and just give me a. Give me a reference point for what a sexologist is and what a somatic version of a sexologist is? Yeah, So a

Ayce Kyptyn: sexologist is somebody that studies sex. Right. It's like a theologist would study God or religion. So I study sex. So a lot of it is gender identity, expression and orientation and helping people critically think about their life and their lifestyle and what they really want out of it. And then how to get that. And then the somatic piece of it is actually just landing in your body and being true to what's there and recognising and realising the sensations and the feelings that are going on and really embodying who you want to be and living that out. So it's that alignment of self

Joanne Lockwood: with spiritually, physically, mentally, everything kind of aligned so that you're, to use the overused expression true to yourself is what you're trying to say here. Does that reflect that? Often the hardest person to come out to, whatever that may mean to you, is yourself admitting to yourself who you are, what you are, what's important to you. Because we, we all tend to live by other people's rules, don't we? We leave as we grow up, we have expectations set on us by our parents, our community, our relatives, and then we just end up in conveyor belt. And sometimes we gotta. We gotta realise that who are we exactly? We

Ayce Kyptyn: all are playing a character in this world. We all have this Persona that we've created of who we are and that becomes our identity. But is that really your identity and who you really are? Are you allowing all of yourself to exist or are you only allowing a certain portion of yourself to exist? Because that's okay in society and it's acceptable, right? And so what I do in my. In my work with people is I allow all of them to exist. The good, the bad, the ugly, what they think is right or wrong. Like all of it's welcomed in this space because it's all of you. And I think what a lot of us do is we really repress those desires because it's not seen as something that's actually, you know, okay to have in this world. And that's where a lot of the, like, incongruency and, you know, the lack of alignment happens. And that's why we're so Sad and frustrated because we're not living a life that's true to who we are and expressing that in this world today. Yeah. You must be a good girl. You must be a strong boy.

Joanne Lockwood: Repress your emotions, be emotional. Want a family, not want a family. Can't be gay, must be straight, can't be trans, must be CIS living up to those societal constructs. And often we have our own communities that enforce and police us into those boxes, doesn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. You mentioned the fact that. Was it 2022, your world turned upside down. Was that the first inkling you had around your own incongruence of identity, or had it been plaguing you? Absolutely not.

Ayce Kyptyn: It had been plaguing me my whole life. I mean, I knew at the age of four, and I think my parents knew it too, right. Of, like, I was way more into boy things. I wanted to be muddy, be really active, do sports. I didn't want to wear makeup, do my hair dresses. Right. Like, it was my entire life that I was. I was fighting this societal norm. And I knew that I was gender incongruent. There was no gender conformity. Right. I knew that, but I was struggling with it, and I. And I felt like I had to align with who society said I needed to be versus who I actually was. And

Joanne Lockwood: you said before you were in your adult career, you were a theologist. Is that theology? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I was

Ayce Kyptyn: a professional theologian. Yeah. Theologian. Was that

Joanne Lockwood: associated with the faith or religion, or was that just spiritually connected or. I was

Ayce Kyptyn: a youth pastor and a missionary within the Christian church. And so I grew up in, like, the evangelical Protestant denominations, and that presumably that the. The doctrine would have not

Joanne Lockwood: accepted deviation from the typical. From the norm, from the straight. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they believe

Ayce Kyptyn: in. There's two genders, male and female. Right. And so obviously, if you look at science and the facts, there's a binary. Right. There's a. There's a spectrum of we could be masculine, we could be feminine, we could be somewhere in the middle. Right. And there could be fluidity in that. And that's not necessarily the way that I was brought up. And so that was a really hard thing, I think, back in 2022, when I started to actually look at the science versus what I had been taught to believe. You know, I believed that to be true. But the science is we're all born female, and then, you know, six to seven weeks later, our bodies start to change, our brains start to develop, and that's when, you know, we become male or female in society's terms. Right, yeah. And so all growing up

Joanne Lockwood: throughout your life, you adopted this spiritual identity, aligned, as you say, with Protestant Christianity, living in a world where whoever you were didn't meet the rules that you were being told and you were conforming to those, almost like conversion therapy in yourself, aren't you? You're converting, keeping yourself oppressed. Absolutely. If you look back now to those times, did you feel incongruent? Did you feel that you were living that line looking back? And how do you rationalise that time in your mind? Because you must have had deep faith in. Yeah, absolutely. An investment in that religion. Yeah. There was always a tension

Ayce Kyptyn: within me. Right. Of what I was told was true and what I felt was true inside of me. And I think what happened was when my world fell apart, I started to realise that the rules that I was living by, they're just all made up. Somebody said, this is how you should be, this is who you should be, this is how you should act, this is what you should do with your life. And it's like, who made that up? It doesn't align with what I know to be true for myself. And so in critical thinking, I was able to go, okay, I was told that my purpose was this. I was told that I was supposed to live my life like this, but it goes against everything that I feel inside. So what would happen if I would just allow whatever's arising to naturally arise and live from that space? And so I learned how to live a more fluid lifestyle of understanding this is what's naturally arising in me and this is what I would like to express. And so I just started testing that out. And at first it wasn't. It wasn't really very fun because my family was like, hold on. The person that we knew is now challenging everything that they believed. And so they thought I was a sinner. And so, I mean, we could go down that road. But that was a really interesting time in my life where I ended up losing everything because I had to step away from the indoctrination that I'd had my entire life to actually find out who I am and what my. My. What my purpose actually is here in this world. That's the.

Joanne Lockwood: I'm gonna say sad reality. There's a lot of joy in the reality as well. So it's not all sad. But the hard truth is that often trans non binary people have to make a polarising choice around who they are, and often that means leaving behind parts of their life. That they valued immensely, but it was no longer compatible. It's what you're saying there is. You've had to. In order to go forward with your life, you've had to let go of a lot. It's incredibly

Ayce Kyptyn: painful. I love my family. I love the community that I used to have. Like, there's a deep relationship there. But I was unable to find compassion and empathy for who I really am. And at some point, I needed to walk away. And I think it's almost out of love for them that I left. Because in reality, I mean, I was very well known nationally as an expert professional Christian theologian. Right. And had I not left the community that I was in, it really would have imploded. My entire family and communities, just lifestyle, everything for my mom didn't change, and I didn't want to do that to her. So I literally packed up everything and left because I love my family and because I didn't want them to go through all the heartache of everyone else finding out about it and then us being the talk of town and their lifestyle changing. So, moving on. You've.

Joanne Lockwood: You made that decision. Well, in fact, you didn't make the decision. The decision was necessary. It became a something you had to do. Yeah. I often say to people that I didn't make a decision. The decision made me sort of think it was a kind of a necessary, not a choice, but evolution that had to occur. Yeah. The universe. Yeah. You went through some dark times. You broke a lot of chains and a lot of relationships and caused a lot of pain to yourself and a lot of pain to others, I assume. So what joy have you found since? Has this awakening allowed you to explore?

Ayce Kyptyn: Yeah, So I learned how to transmute the pain into pleasure. The first 38 years of my life were incredibly painful because I wasn't able to be who I authentically am. And as I started awakening that in myself and in my mind and in my body, things started to slowly shift from playing pain into pleasure. And so actually, Jaya's work in the erotic blueprints is a huge piece of being able to find pleasure in my body and in who I am and how I go about this world. And her methodology or her framework, although it's meant for a fulfilling sex life, it actually can be used in your entire lifestyle. And so I've taken her framework and I've. And I've transformed my life so that I'm living out of that space. I'm going to make

Joanne Lockwood: an assumption that you have been. You've converted your body from Oestrogen based to testosterone base, just purely based on your visual appearance and your voice. So you obviously have a testosterone dominant endocrine system now. I do. What were the key things you noticed, maybe in terms of your sexology of yourself and your outlook on life that changed with that flip, if you like, of the oestrogen?

Ayce Kyptyn: Yeah. I naturally have this masculine presence and it was so repressed my entire life because I was trying to be feminine. And so when I transitioned, there was just such an alignment with the way that I come to this world and how I interact with other people. And so testosterone has been amazing for my body. I feel so good. I used to wake up in the morning, you know, before I transitioned, I was sluggish. I didn't really want to get dressed. I didn't want to see myself in the beer. Right. And now I wake up and I'm like, all right, let's get the day going. And I look at myself in the mirror and I'm really excited about what I see because it actually reflects how I feel inside. Yeah, it's, it's been such a fun journey. Yeah, I, I, I can relate to that completely. For

Joanne Lockwood: me, one, 180, the other perspective, you know, it's turning off the testosterone. Turning on the oestrogen for me has been incredibly affirming. As you say, you look in the mirror and you see yourself, you, the shape and everything else you see in the mirror is you. And it is wonderfully affirming. And also the way the brain responds to stimulus emotions, the world around you, it just feels more comfortable now. And it sounds like that same for you, where the testosterone is amplifying your inbuilt personality. As before, I felt like I was out of control. It was like this masculine figure in my head was driving me down the path. I was going, hang on a minute, going the wrong way. No. And have you ever seen the Disney Pixar inside out with the characters in the head?

Ayce Kyptyn: Yes. I often described the fact I was being driven by the

Joanne Lockwood: little red angry person all the time. And then one day they kidnapped the little red angry person, strapped it to a chair, and then Joy took over the feminine started running my brain. And then it all started working absolutely as it should have done. So maybe you've probably got the opposite. The joy. Joy's still there, but Joy's got a deeper voice now. That's so true. Yeah. My mood

Ayce Kyptyn: drastically shifted. You know, three months into starting t, it was like, wow, this is what I've always wanted. Like, I had this Long desire to feel this way in my body and now with these hormones in my body that have shifted, it feels like there's a, there's an alignment. So you're, you're now working with

Joanne Lockwood: individuals, couples, throuples and every permutation of, of people who want to develop their own understanding, their own bodies and the pleasure zones. I guess. What surprises you about, about people when they come to you? Is there a common theme or there is everybody different? I mean, I think all of us at some point in time have a

Ayce Kyptyn: learned to abandon a piece of ourselves and that's a self protection mechanism. And so what I've noticed in my work with clients is they might not even realise that they've abandoned a piece of themselves and that that's what wants to be expressed. And so I really enjoy like the journey of getting curious with clients and trying to find how can we gather some more information about who you want to be, what your desires are, what do you really want? And then that's actually when the transformation starts with a lot of my clients, they come to me because they have a problem and they don't know how to fix it. And I don't necessarily give them the answer, but I give them the safe space to explore what might be arising and then how to get what you want out of that. So that's what I've noticed is like a commonality with almost all my clients is there's something that's repressed and they've learned how to find it in other ways, but it's not necessarily meeting that direct need. And if I can give them the tools and resources to actually go out and figure out what that is and then get what they want, that's when their lifestyle starts to change and they actually enjoy the life.

Joanne Lockwood: I noticed on your website when I was looking earlier that you've kind of coined the phrase erotic blueprint. Yes. Dive into a bit of that and how that maps out for people.

Ayce Kyptyn: Yeah. So the Erotic blueprints was actually created by Jaya. She's one of the top, I don't know, five or six sexologists in the world. She lives here in Boulder, Colorado and she created a framework that basically helps people understand how they're naturally wired. So what happens in our society is we're taught this is who you should be, this is how you should express, express yourself. This is what sex is. But that's only like a fifth of what's actually possible out there. And so in her framework she has five different types. She has the energetic, sensual, sexual, Kinky and Shapeshifter. A lot of us learn how to be in the sexual and do our life from the sexual space, but we don't understand that there's four other places that we could be living our life out of and actually be wired in and actually enjoy. So what I do is I take her framework and there's a quiz out there that the listeners can, can take, or I, my clients, I have them take as well. That kind of gives us an idea of what their blueprint type might be. And then I teach them about what does it actually look like to live your life out of what your primary type is, not what the world says. But, but what are you primarily. How are you primarily wired? And how can you get the most fulfilment and enjoyment? We're, we're kind of wired

Joanne Lockwood: by society to embrace, if you like, the sex side, aren't we? But the kink side, if you're not in the right environment with the safe, with safe people. And we find we may fantasise about it, but it's always that taboo, isn't it? I've. I met someone recently. Well, I'll say recently, a couple of years ago. And she was a professional lawyer, a top tier lawyer by trade, by profession, yet she also ran this alternate Instagram where she was basically kinky. And she used to wear kinky underwear, bondage gear, not to do anything with it, but as a form of expression about her inner self. So she was not selling that. She was just being that as an empowered, strong woman, she wants to take control of that side of her kink side. And I think that's what you're saying. There is you. They can be separate parts of our identity. We could be kinky without having to enact it, but feel it.

Ayce Kyptyn: Absolutely. Yeah. And there's a deep shame in kink, in doing something that's taboo. Right. We're taught that that's not okay. We can't express that. We can't do that. It's not right. Whatever. But if you start to embrace that, there's a depth of exploration that can happen. And actually you can expand who you are in this world to some extent. We see a

Joanne Lockwood: lot more out and open kink within the, maybe the LGBTQIA communities, because many of us in these communities have always had to break out of shame. Once you've broken out of shame, nothing becomes shameful anymore. You actually, who cares? You know, you've lost that give a fuck almost. You gotta. Which is probably why you see more free expression in the queer community, but for other people who are perfectly heterosexual cisgender. They've never had to cross that shame barrier, have they?

Ayce Kyptyn: Yeah, they haven't challenged it, they haven't dove into it. Right.

Joanne Lockwood: I don't know if you find this, but just the fact we're having this conversation today, I've got so used to over the last 10 years, talking about every inner deep, dark secret I've ever had. I've lost that red line where I won't cross these days. And it's like people could talk about anything. And I go, I start off the conversation, I won't say that, I won't say that, I won't say that. And suddenly, before long, we're just talking about it. And it is a very. And I'm almost watching the other person going, too much information. And they're almost backtracking. Joanne's a bit too open to share anything because I don't have the same inhibitions I had 10 years ago. It's just because you become desensitised to those societal barriers in your life. And I'm assuming that that's what you're helping people do, is break down that societal barrier and say, it's okay, there's no shame in this room. We can go here. Yeah. It's

Ayce Kyptyn: about creating a space of safety. Right. I think a lot of us, we walk in this world with our fists up, we're like ready for a fight or ready to defend. But if we can actually create spaces where we're allowed to have conversation, we're allowed to bring up some of the deeper, darker places in our lives and we actually have the ability to be safe with someone. That's what our nervous system is really desiring. We're not meant to be inconsistent. Turmoil and protection mode and knowing everything that's going on in this world, that's just not how our bodies are designed. No, I think

Joanne Lockwood: you're right, it is. Prehistorically, we're built into fight, flight, freeze mechanisms, we're built into all these protection mechanisms. But the modern world doesn't have the same threats or has different threats. They're maybe not physical threats, they're not going to be eaten by something threats or poisoned or starved. We have comfort blanket around us, but we've also realised that society gives us privilege by conforming to it and the rules of engagement. And as you and I both know, when you step outside of those constructs, the rules close in around you to try and place you back into your box again. So again, coming out with a Kink coming out, talking about your sexuality or gender identity, all these things, but crossing that line still. And I think that's, that's what we got to try and help people get over. Yeah, well, and I think

Ayce Kyptyn: it's about finding your sense of power, agency and sovereignty. Right. If we never find that as humanity, our governments and our world can do whatever they want with us and make us their little toys and move us around like chess pieces. Right. But if we actually can ground in who we are, they've lost their power. Before

Joanne Lockwood: we, before we press record. I was telling a story about a person I met in my past post transition and she wanted some advice for want of a better way of describing it or guidance on how she could better engage with her partner. And she was wanting to be more gregarious, more outgoing in the bedroom and she didn't know what would be a turn on because what's going on in her mind, her fantasy, her story in her head is different to a male fantasy in his head. And there's, how do we get people to actually communicate what I want, what you want and how we can find that connection. That's got to be a real tough thing to get people to be honest with each other. I think, man, this

Ayce Kyptyn: is so multi layered. This is incredibly complex in my opinion. But if we can allow all of someone else to exist without judgement or shame and give them the space to express what that is, it's a step in the right direction. I think like a lot of times what happens with couples is I don't share something with someone else because it affects their life, but if I can actually own my own experience and they can own their own experience and we can find our own arrows and allow that to naturally come out of us and expect and understand that that person has ownership over their own life and their own experience and not necessarily combine, combine that and say that that's my, my, my thing to bear. That's a starting point in actually being able to share our wants, needs and desires. And I think the best way to explain this is I have a friend that I can share anything and everything that's going on, but it's because I own that. Right. It has nothing to do with their life, in their, what they, what they have going on. And so there's no judgement of like I did this because of you, it's I did this for me or I did this to help you. This is not landing right. We'll have to cut some of this, I think. No,

Joanne Lockwood: no, no, I can see where you're going with this. I think what you end up doing is you build this story in your head, don't you? Sometimes. And that. That's. That's what's going on. You're building the story. You're creating this. This rule book of who you are, how societal thinks you should be. And you're also making stuff up about the other person and creating a rule for them in your head.

Ayce Kyptyn: Exactly. Trying to peel that back, isn't it? Is what you're trying to say. Yeah, exactly. So thank you for landing where I was going from that.

Joanne Lockwood: And sorry for latching onto the word kink, because why not? You know, it's an area that I'm keen to find out more about. That one person's kink is another person's vanilla. You know, it's. For many people, sex is two people in bed with the lights off, doing what they need to do, and then rolling over, going to sleep, and that's normal life for them. Other people grabbing each other on the kitchen table or the stairs or in the back of the car or on a park bench or going out for a walk in the woods. That's kind of their normal. And kink doesn't have to be painful or bondage or dressing up or. It just has to be different to traditional, whatever that may mean to you. You have to stretch that boundary slightly for it to be. That's intriguing. I wonder if we're like that and you go on this journey together, don't you, to try and explore what works and what doesn't work. It's overcoming that fear of embarrassment. Is the heartbeat telling you what I fancy doing? Yeah,

Ayce Kyptyn: it's definitely a stretch for some people. So here's the interesting piece that I've learned with kink. If you can allow yourself to have some curiosity and naturally follow your desires, you never know what's going to happen. Well, you're almost always going to have a good time and you're going to gather more information about how to make the next experience that you have even more.

Joanne Lockwood: So what we're trying to do here is we're trying to get the brain chemicals firing, aren't we? We're trying to give those pleasures pleasure zones. From what I understand, we become kind of acclimatised to the chemicals we have and we have to keep finding that next hit, which is a bigger high or a bigger something. We have to keep finding that stimulation, which is, I guess, why after 10 years of marriage, 20 years of marriage, you need something really drastic to float Your boat again.

Ayce Kyptyn: Interesting. Well, so that. That's. Maybe. Maybe I've just outed my

Joanne Lockwood: own. Maybe I've just outed my own limiting belief there. But, you know, is that what we need to do to keep pushing those boundaries, to keep getting that next dopamine? I mean, that's what a lot of people do.

Ayce Kyptyn: I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. Right. Because I think what happens is we're always trying to find that edge or we keep pushing that edge instead of actually just being present in the moment with what our desires are right here, right now. And so a lot of times what people are doing is they're bypassing what they actually feel, the actual sensations that are coming up, because they just need to get that next hit, the next exciting experience, that next adventure, whatever that might be, is the adrenaline rush that people are looking for. And that's actually an escape mechanism.

Joanne Lockwood: There's another word I notice in your bio and show notes and on your website. Is it bonsage? What's bondessage? Yeah, bondessage. So that's

Ayce Kyptyn: created by Jaylene and it's basically a way in which to do a kinky massage. And what that does is it explores power dynamics, it explores sensations in your body. It also explores, you know, anticipation, tease, which for an energetic can be really, really great at dropping you into your body, because an energetic person is someone that enjoys anticipation, ease, chemistry. So through bondessage, actually, we work through all five blueprints and we give people an experience on a massage table where they're tied down and they are getting sensations that are allowing them to be in their body and experience more pleasure. So these are

Joanne Lockwood: physical sensations. We're not talking about tantric here. We're talking about. Yeah, physical, not. Not mental sensations. Yes, exactly. So it's

Ayce Kyptyn: a lot of touch, obviously, with massage with your hands. We use tools as well. You know, we have things like vloggers and, you know, different types of materials that we bring over bodies. We do anal massage. I mean, there's a lot of different ways that we could actually do a bond massage session depending on somebody's desires. Right. But one of the fun things to do in bondessage is if somebody has kinky desires and they've never, you know, done anal play. We have something called an anal hook that we use in the session. So it allows people to explore things that maybe they haven't explored before in a really safe environment where there's trained providers. And obviously we don't do anything that the client doesn't want. But we Allow them to have experiences that they may not have had with a lover that they've always wanted, but they never really asked for it. That's the time and place to get it. Guessing that

Joanne Lockwood: the first time is the hardest coming to you. The second, third, fourth, and hundredth time they come to you, it's an adventure they're looking forward to. So it's trying to break that barrier down. The first one or two times, I guess. Yeah. Usually

Ayce Kyptyn: the first time someone comes to me, it's nervous system development, getting used to each other, getting comfortable with each other in the same space. And then the second session is usually where we really get into some fun things where they express a desire that they've always had, but they've never been. Been able to meet it. And then what. What kind of container can we create so that they can explore those inner longings that they've always had and get some other needs met? So, yes, usually people come to me for at least three sessions, but, I mean, I have people that come to me for hundreds. It

Joanne Lockwood: sounds very interesting. Shame we're not in Colorado. Yeah. Love to come and have a session and find out more. There's people, there's

Ayce Kyptyn: providers all over the United States and the world. So you might be able to find a provider near you. Yeah, yeah, I'm good to go at the moment. Let

Joanne Lockwood: me. Let me just take a brain check on that one. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not feeling the need right now, but. No, I can. I can. I can. Certainly. I'm open to. I'm open to the concept completely, and given the right time, the right context and the right situation. Yeah, I would. I would certainly go. Let's give it a go. Let's find out more. Is it. Yeah, there's a

Ayce Kyptyn: lot of people. Oh, sorry. I was gonna say, is it mainly singles or is

Joanne Lockwood: it couples or. It's everything. Yeah, we get singles,

Ayce Kyptyn: we get couples, we get, you know, multiple people. It just depends on, you know, what your arrangements are. If you're poly, you know, we're open to the circuit. Anyway. What's the. You meant. You mentioned trust. You

Joanne Lockwood: use that word or implied that word many times. I'm guessing that stepping across your doorstep is the first trust, and then sharing personal information is another level of trust. And it must get easier once you start sharing. We talked this earlier. Once you get onto this conveyor about sharing, it becomes more comfortable. And that's probably. The first session is really breaking that down and establishing that bond. Yeah, a lot of

Ayce Kyptyn: times I'll do a virtual session first just so that we can pick up each other's voice, vibes. I mean, I want to make sure that I'm comfortable with you, you're comfortable with me, we can share some, you know, what the container is going to look like. And then usually when they come into person in person, obviously that's just establishing in person trust. Yeah, it's a huge part of my job. Is there a

Joanne Lockwood: reluctance from male identifying people about relinquishing their power or is that often their fantasy is to be able to go from a dominant to a dominated stance? Is that, is that me stereotyping here or is that a common. Common attribute, yeah. So I think a lot of people grow up

Ayce Kyptyn: thinking that men have to be dominant, men have to take charge and then have to be the top or, you know, whatever. But not everybody's wired that way. Or they might be wired that way, but they might want an outlet for some of the other desires that they have. And so in my space, I mean, I really just create an atmosphere where if they would like to be domed, if they would like to be topped. Right. And so a lot of times the people that come see me are, you know, people that are in the boardrooms, presidents of organisations, people that are always having to be in charge and take the lead, they're just like, I just want to receive and I don't want to have to give you anything, no expectations of me doing anything for you. Right. And so it just allows them to land in their bodies and experience whatever it is that they might be wanting to experience in that. I certainly look at my own

Joanne Lockwood: transition and the way my body's changed and other things. There's been a journey of exploration for me to try and reorientate my identity, not only my gender, but also my romantic attraction, my physical attraction within the bounds of a, of a very strong and happy marriage. And trying to understand how that's changed and also how Marie, my wife, has also had to adapt and explore herself as well. And I think one of the reasons we've been able to enjoy and carry on our marriage as soulmates and life partners and wives is that we're both being open to try to figure that out. And that's, as you'll say from your experience, that's not an easy ask for anybody to reorientate their sexual desires and labels. So it is, that's.

Ayce Kyptyn: So go ahead. I was gonna say it takes a, a

Joanne Lockwood: very open minded person. What you're trying to encourage people to do this to actually step out of where they were into where they could be. Yeah. And not only open

Ayce Kyptyn: minded, but somebody who's willing and desiring to stay in the fire with you. I think a lot of times we think that we've lost love for someone and we've lost that spark. And I mean, maybe that's true, but maybe they've just lost the desire to actually stay in the fire and go through it. And, and there's a lot of reasons why that might be on their own personal level. But if someone's actually willing to go there, they can experience a relationship like what you have with your partner. Right. Like the depth of intimacy that you wouldn't have had that probably had you not gone through what you've gone through in the last 10. We often

Joanne Lockwood: say to each other that where our relationship is stronger today that potentially it was or would have been otherwise, because we've, as you could probably imagine, we've done a lot of talking over the last 10 years, done a lot of shouting and screaming and hugging and crying and being with each other far more than probably we would have ever communicated had things remained as they were in the past. So I think it's an immense privilege that we've evolved our, our relationship, not just physical relationship, but also our romantic relationship and day to day relationship in ways we could never have explored well, without an independent counsellor maybe. But we've done that largely by eroding those barriers because suddenly there's no red lines anymore. We've crossed all the red lines. There are. We're told the truth ultimately behind who we are now. And so there's very little secrets in our life and we know each other better now than we've ever done. And it takes work, it takes determination, it's choice,

Ayce Kyptyn: it's intention and it's learning how to love someone else like the way that we want to be loved. And I

Joanne Lockwood: think as humans, as we go through our lives, our needs evolve, don't they? And I'm sure you find this where when I'm in my teens, I'm exploring, trying to figure stuff out, trying to practise. I don't want to be this, maybe not the one for me forever, but it's a bit of fun. Then you get to that sort of biological clock type time in your 20s and whatever it may be in your 30s, thinking, well, actually the purpose of this is to have a family. And then you go through that tired phase where you've got your family, your hormones change again and you're saying, right, okay, no more. You gotta work protecting your offspring now. And then your offspring leave and you're going, well, okay, now what? I don't want any more kids. I'm tired, I'm exhausted. Menopause, whatever it may be. Stress at work. So we've got to rediscover ourselves in our 40s to find new purpose in our relationship, haven't we? And try and do that within our relationships rather than looking outside to find spice elsewhere. That's what often happens. We reject looking in and start looking out again. Yeah, I mean, we're all going through different

Ayce Kyptyn: phases in our life and we're all making different choices according to what we want. So, I mean, a lot of us live our life the way that you just mentioned. We go through it almost the way that society tells us to. Right. You grow up, you get married, you have kids, retire. That's like the typical society. And the interesting piece that I realised is, like, how many people are actually happy with that life? A lot of people who come to me and, like, I wish I wouldn't have gotten married when I was 21 or had kids when I was 25 or, you know, they have all these regrets. And it's really interesting to me, like, what would happen in our society if we started asking questions and critically thinking about what do you really want in your life at a younger age? I think we'd have a lot less miserable people, a lot less divorce rates, a lot less hate and, you know, people getting hurt. If we could just be authentic and true to how we're naturally wired and what we really do truly want in this life. If I were. If I would have been able to transition at the age of 18, there's 20 years of pain and heartache that I might not have had to go through. Now. Was it good for me to go through that? Yes, I grew, I evolved, and I changed, but I. There's always this question of, what if society was different and we just allowed people to own their experiences and whatever is right and true for them, I think there'd be a lot less pain in this world. Yeah, I agree, I agree. But the trouble is we're so

Joanne Lockwood: ingrained in this process of pain and dependence and rules, constructs that it's almost impossible to break out of it. Without using a matrix analogy here, we do have to take the pill, find the truth and pull the plug out, and otherwise we'll never escape. And society's just not geared up for it. Society wants us in debt. It wants to be controlled by the state. We have to have rules. Drive on this side of the road, don't drive too fast, eat this, don't eat that, spend this, behave like this. Because as a society, that's what keeps us coherent. And when we try and bend those rules, we're seen as outliers. We talked about this right at the beginning, that it, it's. It's almost impossible to. To swim with the stream when you are the wrong fish. Yeah. I mean, what this does is it

Ayce Kyptyn: encapsulates our human experience. Right. I think as a human we're meant to go through all these different things and evolve and shape shift and change with. With what's going on and learn and grow and develop. Right. I think that's just a part of who we are as humans and life in this world today. So I give you a ring. I say, ace, I need your

Joanne Lockwood: help. What's the first question you ask me then? You know, I'm not feeling it anymore. I love my partner. We want to be good together. I want back what we had 30 years ago. And it's difficult sometimes. What I do

Ayce Kyptyn: is I start with, what do you want? What is the end goal? Do you have an idea of what that is? A lot of times we don't even know what that might be. And so what I do is I help my clients get curious with that. So let's find out what you're in desires of and then I'll give you a pathway. So it's allowing

Joanne Lockwood: people to draw about the curtains, see the road ahead of them and take that first step. And then they realise the first step isn't as scary as you thought it was going to be. It will change your life absolutely,

Ayce Kyptyn: but it's exactly what you need to do. So it's changed

Joanne Lockwood: your life. As you said, you were at this crossroads. Staying on the same road was not an option. For various reasons. You got jolted by a circumstance which caused you to question yourself. How can you recognise that point in your life without having to have trauma to jolt you into it? Because I'm not saying I had trauma to jolt me, but there were things that happened around that time that made creating change much easier. Because some of it was going anyway. So I didn't have to hang onto everything, I just hang onto the bits. So it'd be far easier for people to realise they can make change without having to lose things. Yeah, some people are

Ayce Kyptyn: probably not nearly as stubborn as that. Learning from other people's experiences and just realising it. I mean, I realised it so much sooner. I could see that something was going to happen. And ultimately the destruction of my life was a gift from the universe. To allow pieces of me that needed to die. It was almost like a death of an ego. Right. Going into the dark side of the soul. And not everybody needs to go there. But I also, I think at some point in our lives, we all probably do go there. The metaphor and

Joanne Lockwood: the analogy I use is it's almost like being on the space shuttle. When you're on the stand, you're pointing up in the air, you have to push the button and blast off with enough velocity that you escape Earth's gravitational pull. Because if you do it half hearted, you don't push the button deep enough, you don't grab it enough with it, you just get halfway up and then you drop back down to Earth. So you've got to try and find this escape velocity where you actually break free of the chains that are holding you back. And then when you're up there in space, you're looking around going, wow, this is kind of scary. How do I get back down again? And what you gotta try and figure out is how to get up there without losing all those heat protective tiles. Because if you've lost all those heat tiles coming up in your journey, you break all those things and coming back down is gonna burn up on reentry. If you go too shallow, you'll bounce off in space, you go too steep, you'll burn up. It's trying to find that exact path where you can land back on the tarmac and put the parachutes out the back and go, yay, I'm here, I'm still in one piece. That's a really tough navigation to get all those little courses and velocities and impact correct. It's so hard.

Ayce Kyptyn: And what I learned through my journey is it's almost impossible to do it by yourself. Had I not had a team of people that could resource me and come inside of me and like give me the tools that I needed to actually launch off and do this in a way that wasn't going to destroy me. Yeah, it's, it's finding your team of people, finding your support system, your community. We all long to belong. We all want to be worthy. Right? And so through the process, for me it was learning that of how to not only, you know, have myself and be independent and do all the things, but how do I allow other people to come around me, support me and be community, help me.

Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, I'm fascinated. Your name? Ace Kipton. And one of the privileges we have. Being trans, I guess, is we get to. We get to pick our own name. And how did you pick your name? You made it up. So how did you make it up? Yeah. Yeah. So I

Ayce Kyptyn: always wanted to have kids. Well, that's. That's not true. I thought if I had a kid, I would name my kid Kipton. I love the name Kipton. There's something about it that. That just was drawn to me. And as I was going through this transition process, I hired a therapist and we were doing some inner child work and I was working with my inner kid, and I named my inner kid Kipton. And it became really important to me. And so that's how I came up with my last name was instead of having a kid and naming my kid, it was my inner child. That's

Joanne Lockwood: beautiful. Beautiful. It's also unique. I guess there aren't many other Ace Kiptons in the world, so it makes you easily locatable on search engines and other places, I guess. Exactly. Yeah. I don't think there's anybody that

Ayce Kyptyn: spells their first name like I do, and then I don't know about anybody that has a last name that I have as well. So. Very unique.

Joanne Lockwood: Ayce. Ayce Kyptyn. Kyptyn. Yeah. Very unique. Very striking. Ayce, it's been absolutely fantastic. How can people get hold of you if they want to find out more and maybe even do a virtual session with you? That'd be

Ayce Kyptyn: fantastic. I'm on most of the social media platforms. I'm on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Find me at Ayce Kyptyn. Or you can take a look at my website, ace kipton.com and I've got. A

Joanne Lockwood: copy of it here and it looks fantastic. And you can talk about volition. Was it volition, Voltitionary life? How do you pronounce that? Volitionary life. We all have a volition. Volition, Volitionary life. That's it. Go. I couldn't find the. Couldn't find the pronunciation of that. Absolutely fantastic. Ace. Thank you. Thank you for your time. I

Ayce Kyptyn: deeply appreciate it. That was great. I loved that.