--- title: "Proudly Authentic, Always Real" episode: 174 date: 2025-09-05 guest: "Jodie Goodchild" canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/174-proudly-authentic-always-real audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-174/audio.mp3 --- # Proudly Authentic, Always Real Joanne Lockwood is joined by Jodie Goodchild, an award-winning community creator and LinkedIn trainer, to explore what it looks like to be proudly authentic in business and in life. Jodie shares her journey of coming out as a lesbian, the fear and uncertainty that can come with naming your truth, and the freedom that can follow when you stop living for other people’s approval. From there, the conversation moves into the practical realities of visibility: why posting and sharing your perspective can feel like a second “coming out” for small business owners, how imposter feelings keep people lurking, and what helps individuals find a voice that sounds like them rather than a corporate persona. Joanne and Jodie discuss polarisation, boundaries, and the difference between being authentic and being intentionally provocative. They also unpack how community and trust are built through consistent, human content and real-world connection, including Jodie’s approach to creating brave, supportive spaces for business owners to learn, show up, and grow. Alongside reflections on inclusion and safety in groups, they touch on wellbeing pressures in entrepreneurship and the importance of protecting time to live, not just work. ## Chapters - 00:00 — Introduction and Welcomw - 01:30 — Entrepreneur Celebrates Identity and Success - 07:00 — Overcoming LinkedIn Posting Anxiety - 15:50 — Be Genuine, Avoid Corporate Speak - 19:03 — Authentic Connection on LinkedIn - 24:26 — Networking Events: Costly Social Buzz - 28:36 — LinkedIn: Engaging Social Media Strategies - 34:28 — Evaluating Personal Branding Risks - 38:20 — Heartwarming Entrepreneurial Success - 43:25 — Inclusive Marketing for Budget-Conscious Businesses - 50:43 — Escape Corporate Cycle - 56:47 — Menopause Challenges Impacting Women's Careers - 59:38 — Menopause Misunderstanding in Healthcare ## Key takeaways - How embracing authenticity catalyses growth, both personally and for business, and why visibility is key to overcoming imposter syndrome. - Practical approaches for small business owners to use LinkedIn as a platform for thought leadership, focusing on educational and engaging content rather than self-promotion. - The importance of sharing everyday stories and experiences to resonate with audiences and build trust, rather than relying on polished corporate personas. - Strategies for fostering inclusive and psychologically safe communities that value difference while establishing boundaries to ensure respect and belonging. - The challenge of balancing personal exposure and accessibility with the risks of an outsized brand presence, and how to maintain genuine relationships online and offline. - The shifting landscape of entrepreneurship and work-life balance, especially for women and those re-entering or transitioning within the workforce later in life. - The vital role of peer support networks and normalising honest discussions about topics like menopause, mental health, and diverse lived experiences in professional communities. ## FAQs ### Who are the host and guest in this episode? The episode is hosted by Joanne Lockwood (she/her), an inclusion and belonging champion, and features Jodie Goodchild, an award-winning community creator, author, and LinkedIn trainer known for empowering others to build their brands through authenticity. --- ### What does ‘authenticity’ mean in the context of small business and personal branding? Authenticity here refers to presenting your true self, sharing real stories, and resisting the urge to create a ‘sanitised’ or performative persona online, particularly on professional networks like LinkedIn. Both Joanne and Jodie stress the value in being genuinely yourself as it attracts meaningful connections and trust (rather than simply trying to please all audiences). --- ### Why is it difficult for many people to be authentic online, especially on LinkedIn? Many individuals experience ‘imposter syndrome’ and fear the repercussions of expressing genuine opinions or personal stories, worrying about negative reactions or appearing unprofessional. Most LinkedIn users are ‘lurkers’ rather than posters, reinforcing apprehension. The podcast frames this as a kind of ‘coming out’ — stepping into visibility with one’s real narrative. --- ### How can small business owners use LinkedIn more effectively according to Jodie Goodchild? Jodie advocates an approach based on education, engagement, and authenticity rather than transactional sales. She suggests focusing 80% of content on educating and engaging, sharing insights, and narrating daily experiences, while only 20% should directly address selling products or services. She highlights that people buy from people, not faceless brands. --- ### What role does vulnerability play in building a community or brand? Sharing vulnerabilities and personal challenges makes you relatable and can foster brave spaces where others feel safe to do the same. Jodie discusses how coming out as a lesbian, and then being open about her business journey, was empowering — and helped others see what is possible. --- ### What are the pitfalls of ‘performative authenticity’? While being yourself is encouraged, Jodie and Joanne caution against confusing authenticity with being inappropriately blunt or disregarding social norms. The benchmark is: if you wouldn’t say it in a professional setting face-to-face, reconsider posting it online. --- ## Transcript Jodie Goodchild: Foreign. Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyone not only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to joe.lockwoodeechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 174 with the title Proudly Authentic, Always Real. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Jodie Goodchild. No, you're not. You're Jody. One second. Let's do that again. Today is episode 174 with the title Proudly Authentic, Always Real and I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Jodie Goodchild. Jodie is an award winning community creator, author and LinkedIn trainer who empowers others to grow their brand and business with zero budget, but with 100% authenticity. And when I asked Jodie to describe her superpower, she said it is being able to create brave spaces where authenticity becomes your best asset. Hello Jody, welcome to the show. Hello. Thank you so much for having me. I've followed you Jodie Goodchild: for a long time and it's actually great to get to meet you and chat and talk to you in person rather than admiring your posts and TV appearances from afar. It was actually a real pleasure to have a Joanne Lockwood: guest on my show who is probably less than 10 miles away from where I'm sat right now. We're both pompy girls, pretty much born and bred in the not the sound of Bo Bows, but the sound of Fratton park probably. And as we're chatting in the green room, it turns out that my father taught at the school in the 70s that you attended in the 90s, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Small world. Yeah. And yeah, we're both lovers of the area, so yeah, absolutely fantastic to have somebody from here other than over there. So Jodie, we were chatting in the green room, we had a good natter for about three minutes, half an hour. And it's clear that you speak very powerfully about living as your true self. You would Recognise, like, even only last night with another award, and you were very proud of that. So what helped you embrace that authenticity and more importantly, I suppose, turn it into a platform for change? Yeah, well, firstly, yeah, I've got my shiny award here Jodie Goodchild: with me, which I'm really excited about. Entrepreneur of the Year. And I think it's just absolutely crazy that I've won that because, and this is to answer your question, there was a time that, you know, you listening might relate to this, that I didn't think that there was life past, you know, if I was to come out and tell the world who I thought I was. And being able to stand on that stage last night and win that award as an out and proud lesbian woman who now doesn't give a toss if somebody likes that or not, was just absolutely mind blowing. And it's actually made me feel really emotional today because I. And again, I'm sure people listening will resonate with this, but I actually didn't feel like I started living my life until I was about 19 years old, because I went through what most of us, well, all of us do in the LGBT community, which was, you know, not understanding who I was and being scared and afraid to talk to anyone about that because there was no education and there was nobody to tell me that actually that was okay. I was convinced that if I spoke my truth that I would be, you know, shunted away from my family and that, you know, I just really struggled with my identity. And the honest truth is that it was only really in Covid. Um, you know, we had lots of people that were passing away that made me sit there and think if it was my time to check out. And I was set, you know, sat in that waiting room and somebody comes around with their clipboard and says, right, you're just about to check out. Like, give us an evaluation of your time on this earth. You know, have you done everything you wanted to do? I kind of sat there and thought, no, I haven't. And it was that that really pushed me out of my comfort zone. I mean, I've had a really successful corporate career, but, you know, I wasn't happy. I had no purpose. Then started my own business. And just by being me and, you know, not acting like I thought everyone else, you know, should act, I've made a really super successful business. And what I now do is teach businesses in my community, we've just hit the 90 number, which is crazy, just to be themselves and, you know, just post what they do on social media. So we. I teach LinkedIn and that's all about being authentic, you know, not worrying about what everyone's going to say, just saying what you want to say and being your authentic self. And that will attract people to want to work with you. And that's, I think, a long winded answer of why, you know, why I do what I do. Joanne Lockwood: It's a real challenge when you first come out as a small business owner, forget about your sexuality. You're used to hiding in corporate land, working for somebody else. You don't have a voice, you don't feel that you can speak on behalf of anybody and suddenly you're a small business and suddenly someone says, you can say what you like, it's your business. Yeah, Jodie Goodchild: yeah. But people go, what can I say? You know, what should I say? And Joanne Lockwood: there's this real nervousness about having an opinion sometimes. You know, if you look at LinkedIn, 99% of people are lurkers. Yes. Not commenters or posters. Yeah. So it takes a real bravery to overcome your own imposter syndrome. What has little old me got to say to the world? Yeah. So that's a coming out that Everybody does on LinkedIn, isn't it? Yeah, you're Jodie Goodchild: so right. You're so right on that. And that there's 1 billion, 90 million people on LinkedIn and the stat is that whilst 3 to 4% of those are active, they might, you know, they might use it. Only 1 to 2% of those people actually post. So what I say to people is, what a brilliant opportunity is that, because traditionally you'd have to pay thousands of pounds for marketing to get visible, whether that's an email campaign or some cold calling or direct mail. And you've got a platform available to you with. In portsmouth alone, there's 207,000 people on LinkedIn. You know, you've got presents you with brilliant opportunity. But I love that you've just said, you know, you have to almost come out because you do. That first post is so difficult and I've seen it almost, you know, 90 plus times of the people in my community, you know, they come in and they come in because they feel like they're scared of LinkedIn and they, you know, they don't want to post. And my job, I think that, you know, my mission is to make them feel comfortable enough to just talk about the awesome stuff that they know. Because you're right when you're in that corporate job, you might be selling. And I was selling, you know, I had a huge sales, sales role and a huge sales team. We were doing over £100,000 in sales a year. But when I became a business owner myself, mentioning even just, you know, a couple of grand to somebody for what I was doing petrified me, you know, and it's like, it's crazy. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. It is almost a coming out thing, isn't it? Hadn't thought about that. It is, yeah. I look at my own journey Joanne Lockwood: on LinkedIn. I used to run an IT company based in the Portsmouth area and I set up on my own and. And I was lurking like everybody else and I thought, well, what can I say? Because if I upset somebody by saying something they disagree with. Yeah. Then you have to sort of say, well, actually, forget about who you're upset, but think about who you engage. Yeah. And there's a great quote, if you remember the broadcast of Chris Evans, he said, you gotta be Marmite. Half your audience are gonna love you and half the audience are gonna hate you. Yeah. But then you stand for something. You do. If you stand for nothing. Nobody's engaged. Yeah. So find that polarisation and challenge people to think. That's what we want to do, isn't it? Create that thinking rather than just acquiesce to the majority. Yeah, yeah. Jodie Goodchild: Really cool video actually this week. Do you know Florence Given? You've probably heard. No, not come across. Brilliant, amazing author, writes some really awesome books for women, so definitely check her out. But she's. I stumbled upon her TikTok this week and then I ended up in a. In a. A good TikTok hole because you can get into the bad ones of, you know, getting sucked into all the bad stuff. But this was a good one. And she was saying, when you're getting that nervousness to do something and you hear that voice in your head that goes, I can't say that. Stop for a second and actually try and think about who you're thinking about is going to say something. Who is that person that you're thinking, oh, if I post that, they are going to, who is that person? And she literally just says, stick your middle finger up at them and do it anyway because they're controlling you and they own you and don't let them do that. And I absolutely love that. And she's got some brilliant. She's got some brilliant tiktoks. So definitely go check her out because I sat there and there was one of them that I've now committed to watching every day because it just, you know, when something really fires you up and I'll send it to You. And I put it in my community. Everyone's like, oh, God, that's brilliant. I need to watch that every day. But, yeah, you just need to think about who it is that you're. That's making you feel that way and just, you know, stick your middle finger up to them and do it anyway. Yeah. I stumbled across the Joanne Lockwood: Australian, I guess, polymath Tim Minchin, and I watched some of his YouTubes and I was really transfixed by his. First of all, what got me onto it was his honorary doctorate acceptance speech in the University of Australia somewhere. And I watched it and thought, brimey, this guy's got some real insight that I resonate with. And I started going down that Rabbit hole on YouTube, watching all of his material, and I'm now a Tim fan. You know, he's absolutely. You know, he's got those wild eyes, eyeliner. He wears crazy hair. Yeah. But he just. He just cuts through the bs. And you say that middle finger. And I keep this. If you listen to this, I've got a jar of fucks, actually. And so I know I've only got so many I want to give away before I run out. So, you know, care about what you care about, but know when to stick the middle finger up and say, your opinion doesn't matter to me. And I guess you had that experience again when you had that epiphany where you have to have that opinion. When you come out as queer, lgbtqia, you have to get to that point where you can put that middle finger up. You do. Yeah, you do. Jodie Goodchild: And then I think there's a certain amount of. I don't know if you. Maybe power is the right word, but when you've been scared of doing something for so long and you fear the other side of the thing, and then you do it, and it's not easy straight away, but then you kind of think, well, if I could do that. And I thought there was nothing on the other side of that, like, what else could I do? And I. I say this all the time, like, LGBTQ plus. You know, we are a community of the most resilient and hardworking people you ever meet, because we've been through it, and we are tough. You know, you won't find more, you know, stronger people than our community, and I love that. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I cast my mind back 10 years when I first transition came out, was open, whatever phrase you like to use. And that line you have to cross, it feels like a chasm. Jodie Goodchild: It does. It feels like a cliff edge. Yeah. And you Step off it Joanne Lockwood: and go. Hang on a minute. That was only one inch. It was no. It was no big deal at all. Yeah, yeah. And the people who love you, love you. And the people who don't don't matter, you know, and there's lots of anecdotes and phrases about that, but I learned that my friends are my friends because they're my friends and those are the people that stick with you and the other people, they just don't matter and they drift off. Like leaving school, like leaving college, changing workplace. Some people stick with you, some people don't, and some people stick with the old person. And some people have come with me on my new journey. And yeah, having polarisation like that is actually a good thing because for me it was. I don't need to carry this baggage of expectation around with people I don't care about. Jodie Goodchild: Yeah. So, yeah, I'm sure you could be proud to you. Joanne Lockwood: And actually, you'll find you open up different markets. You do, yeah. Jodie Goodchild: And also you set the example for other people as well. You set the example that, you know, that there is life on the other side of that chasm that you once look at and think, you know, this is never going to happen. And if you can set that example to other people, then even if just one person, you know, looks at you and thinks, if they've done it, I can do it. That's all that matters, isn't it? Again, casting my mind back to 2017. Joanne Lockwood: I remember going to. I was trying to do radical failure, that sort of thing where you fail quickly and move on quickly. And I thought, well, gender transition. I thought, okay, how am I going to develop a new business, a new life, new career? I thought, I know what I got to do. I've got to find out where my edges are. So I started going to all these networking events in Portsmouth. I wanted to invent Bright. I. I joined Startup Disruptors at the Customs House at Gum Wharf, went there for a few times, met some of the people at Halpern House and those sort of communities. And I thought, I got wind of this Female Entrepreneurs Network evening at the Purple Door at the University and I turned up there, thought, okay, if I can get away with going to the Female Entrepreneurs Network, I can get away with anything. So I walked in there thinking, someone's going to have a go at me. Someone's going to out me, someone's going to drum me out of the room saying, you're not a real woman, get out of here. And at the end of it all I got was curiosity, warmth, love and support for everybody, I thought. And it's just those little testing moments that you. You take yourself a little test drive every so often and go, that worked. Then you realise that fear is just this. This thing that you make up, these lies you tell yourself. Yeah. And also there's. There's Jodie Goodchild: people that aren't against you, they just need educating because they don't understand things. And then you have a conversation with them and they're like, yeah, actually, that makes sense. And it's nice to be able to challenge that and go out and educate people and make them, you know, become a safe person in a safe space for other people to go into. Yeah. You mentioned Joanne Lockwood: the word authenticity or authentic quite a few times, and people sometimes confuse that word with being my obnoxious, authentic self. So how do we. How do we toe that line between sanitising ourself enough to be socially acceptable but not compromising our ideals as well? Jodie Goodchild: That's a really good question. And we've spoken about this. I think that the way that we look at it is that it's absolutely acceptable to be you. And you will have, like we've just said, you will have differing opinions. You know, if you're not, you know, getting people to say the opposite, then you're not doing it right. It is like Marmite. People either love it or hate it. But. But the way that I say this to people in my community is if you wouldn't say it in an office environment, probably don't say it on a social media platform because there is a line there of some things that, you know, are acceptable to say and have an opinion on. And then there's things that, you know, wouldn't be acceptable to, you know, to say. And you've. You've got it. You do have to be careful with that. But, you know, most of the things that people want to share about their journeys or, you know, how they started their businesses and all of that kind of great stuff is being authentic. It's not speaking in a voice. You know, we go on LinkedIn and we see people like Richard Branson, you see the Stephen Bartless of the world, Daniel Priestley's, and you think, oh, I need to speak in a particular tone on here. You know, and you see those posts that go up that say, exciting announcement Alert. And what I say to people in my community is, if you. You wouldn't go up to somebody at a networking event before you've even introduced yourself, go, exciting announcement alert. Because they'd go Are you okay? Like, that was a bit weird. So just talk, like, you talk to people face to face and just be you. You don't have to use all of these, you know, fancy words that, you know, you think you need to, you need to speak. And I, I was talking to somebody actually this week and they said that they did that and they spoke almost in this corporate tongue on LinkedIn, and they tried to use big fancy words. And then when they met somebody in person, the person said, can I say something to you? And I don't want this to offend you, but I didn't think you'd be like this because you don't speak like this on LinkedIn. And they were like, God, that's actually a really good point. So they stopped trying to make a fake LinkedIn Persona and just post it as them. And I think that's what it's all about. Joanne Lockwood: I suppose what I try and do on LinkedIn is a kind of a cycle. So some stiffy corporate sound bites or articles and then some truth bombs in the middle of that, where I'm having a bad day or, wow, this has blown my mind. So you talk from the heart. Yeah, So I think it's trying to find the right cadence between. So you want to sell your professional side, but also give it humanity as well, don't you? Yeah, yeah. And it's that word, isn't it? It's Jodie Goodchild: social, you know, it's social media. So we're using it to be social, which is, you know, being authentic and real. You know, I don't want people. When I used to think about an entrepreneur, I would think of somebody that Woke up at 5am, went to the gym for an hour, drank protein shakes, then got into their Range Rover, you know, check the time on their Rolex, and then went into the office. And that's not real at all. And actually, I've not met. I think I've met one person that's like that, that's a business owner. The rest of them are just normal, you know, I know none of us are, you know, normal, but you know what I mean, like, you know, just people that, you know, might not get up till, you know, seven o'. Clock. Some days I might sit around in my pyjamas until 9:30 and then think, right, come on, we got to start the day. So. So I think it's breaking that, breaking that norm and making people just say it how it is. And like you say, you know, dropping in a few truth bombs and actually the format that I teach in my community is educate, engage, convert. So we, we say that you should post 80% of your content to educate and engage your audience. So that could be, you know, I've read this article. What do you think? Or it could be, you know, this is where I do my home office stuff and this is my favourite thing in the office. What's yours? That's all education and engaging. And then Your converts are 20% of the time where you then talk about your product or your service because people buy from people, you know, they don't buy from faceless brands anymore. And when you go on LinkedIn, you're not looking to be sold to, you're looking to make a connection with somebody and connect with something. And I posted a video this week that really explains this. Well, I was driving back from a meeting and I stopped my car to let a guy cross the road and he threw his ladder on one arm and he had a bucket in the other arm and he crossed the road. He's obviously a window cleaner. And in that moment I went, oh, God, I need to book our window cleaner in to get our, get our windows cleaned. He didn't sell me anything, he didn't pass me a leaflet, he didn't stop my car and say, exciting announcement alert, you can book me to clean your windows. He just walked across the road and he was just doing his thing, but visibly. And that is just being yourself on LinkedIn in, in my world and making people connect with you. And then you either remind somebody of something they need or you educate them on something that they don't yet know that they need, that they then go, that makes a lot of sense. I need that. So rather than saying, buy my stuff, you know, I've got this cool stuff. It's like, you know, this is a problem that I'm facing and this is how I'm finding people, solving it, getting into conversations with people and then before you know it, you've got an opportunity from somebody having a conversation. And then when you have to sell to that, it's not selling at all because they're already brought in and they'll probably say, how much would it be for you to come and do some training? I've seen all the great stuff you've done. Brilliant. You don't have to say, you know, let me just get my three pages of objection handling out, because I knew you were going to say this and I'm going to objection handle you. It's already done. Yeah, Joanne Lockwood: well, we can do that with ChatGPT now, can't we? We can just paste the problem into it and say, dispel these myths, please. Yeah, yeah. Jodie Goodchild: And it helps you with that. Got an article? Yeah. I made a conscious Joanne Lockwood: decision seven or eight, six or seven years ago probably to stop being a lurker, to stop being a commenter and resharer or commentating on somebody else's post because I thought everyone's doing that. Where you become recognised as a thought leader is to originate ideas and content. So I took a very practical thing now is I almost deliberately don't share other people's posts or just comment on them other than unless I've got something value add, because I want to originate that. Really. That's what sets you apart from your competition sometimes is that thought leadership piece, isn't it? Yeah. There's a really good book actually called Key Person of Jodie Goodchild: Influence by Daniel Priestley and I would recommend to anyone listening to get a copy of that book because I genuinely believe that's one of the reasons why things have gone so well for me in the last two and a half years. Because it really sets out what you need to do to be a thought leader and to create a personal brand. Daniel's just been on Stephen Bartlett's Diary of a CEO again recently and said that the future of business is personal branding. That doesn't matter whether you're a one person band or, you know, a giant corporate. Even in a big corporate, the CEO has to be present on LinkedIn and have a personal brand or business just won't move forward because we don't buy from cold calling. I've done two workshops recently and I've had 28 businesses in each workshop. And I said to them, right, hands up. I'm not talking about the last week, the last six months, in the last 12 months plus, put your hand up if you've brought something from a cold call, not one of them put their hand up. Because we've moved away from sales being transactional now. You know, cold calling is harder than ever. You're sending emails, it's harder than ever to get through to people's inboxes because they're spammed all day. You know, it is just a world where the transactional sales is, is I, I almost believe it's nearly dead. And that's what I've been saying for, you know, for months I've been saying there's 1 billion, 90 million people on LinkedIn, 3 to 4% of those are active. Get on it. And Daniel Priestley said that exact statement on the diary of a CEO podcast recently, and I was listening to it in my car and almost screeched the brakes on because, you know when you have that moment where you're like, oh, my God, like, this is exactly what I've been out there saying. And it kind of gave me that boost as a thought leader to say, I've been saying this, and now one of these biggest names in business has just said exactly the same thing. And, yeah, I'm really passionate about it because I've been in sales and I know how transactional it can be and how expensive it is. And that's why I've started what I've started to almost break that barrier down for people. Yeah. What you're saying there completely Joanne Lockwood: resonates. And I'm always a great believer that your personal brand, how people feel about you, what emotion do you create in people? And it can be quite tricky sometimes. When we first spoke, I think in the introduction, he said how much you've been looking forward to this. There was obviously some recognition of my personal brand, how you've seen me on LinkedIn, how you're really honoured to meet me. And that's quite humbling for me to hear someone say that, because I'm not ego driven. And the number of people I bump into who go, oh, my God, I've finally meeting, I've been looking forward to it. It's like, whoa, how am I having that effect on somebody? And that's the personal brand I'm trying to create, is this connection. Yeah. At a personal level, an emotional level with people where I. What I talk about is generating change in their life. And that's the magic, isn't it? How do you note to that in people? Yeah. And it's, you know, what I will Jodie Goodchild: say on the back end of that is you never know who's watching. I was saying that earlier this week, like, you know, you might be doing all this stuff and thinking, you know, no one's liking or commenting, but the amount of opportunities I've had that have come through from people that have never liked or commented or even spoken to me before, and they are the lurkers, like you say, that kind of just lurk in the background and they consume all of this educational content that you share, and then they go, you know, actually, I'm gonna. I'm gonna reach out to this person. So the question that you asked was, how do you nurture somebody to just be themselves in my. The idea of my community, I was going out and I was doing networking events, as you've mentioned you did. I was probably doing two of them a month, maybe three. And they cost me about £15 a time. I was probably spending close to £50amonth on doing networking events. And when I kind of went to them, I'd get a good social buzz from them because I felt like I'd been around people and, you know, as a small business owner, it's just, you know, when it's just you and your partner at home and you'll resonate with that as well, can get a bit lonely and you need to be around people. I used to work in an office where I had a department of 70 people, and when I wanted a little chat or a mess about, I could go to the, you know, one of their desks and do that. But when you're at home, there's only so much you can annoy your girlfriend before she tells you to leave the house. So I was going to these networking events and I was really enjoying them. I was. I was meeting some people, but actually all I was really getting from those were a coffee and a chat. So I actually stopped looking at them as something that was helping my business and more of a social. But it made me realise there was a gap in the market. In Portsmouth, every year we lose 900 businesses. 900 businesses go under a year, which is crazy. And. And I was thinking, well, there's all these people here that are, you know, that doing their own thing, and why are we losing those 900? And I thought, well, if we did a networking group where we could network and still meet people and get that social element, but then a part of that was actually educational where those businesses could learn something really tangible that they could then take away to help them grow their business. That would be really helpful. So I came up with this idea, did some research, and that was what I created. So I created a community of people that meet once a month to network. But they know that an hour and a half of that time is dedicated to them learning how to grow their business. So when we meet, we do, you know, we check in. And we're a bit like a family now because it's a community. Everyone knows everyone, so we'll catch up. And it's not, who are you? What you, what you doing? It's how's that project going that you're working on? You know, did you close that deal you were talking about? And then for an hour and a half, we focused down on what they can do to be authentic in their business, to help them grow. So you know, we'll sit and plan content together. So we'll show, we'll take that, the stigma out of it that makes it feel complicated. And I'll say to them, right, you got three post it notes in front of you. I want you to write down, you know, three things that have happened this week. One thing you've done with the client, one thing that you've done that's made you happy, and one thing that you're proud of. And they write those post it notes in literally 10 seconds and they're done. And I'm like, there's three LinkedIn posts. And they're like, she's right, it's that simple. And it might have been that they had a nice bit of cake with their friend over a coffee and spoke about business. Could be they finished a client project. It could be they've just won something. Every day, everyday kind of activities that we do make great content. You know, us having this podcast together now would be a great LinkedIn post. You know, the awards last night is a great LinkedIn post. I'm going out for some sushi on Saturday to a new place in Portsmouth I've not tried before. That'll be a great LinkedIn post because I'm celebrating a brilliant quarter in somewhere new. So everyday activities make great LinkedIn content. I think that's what I make it my mission to, to teach people. Yeah. I think we look at Joanne Lockwood: the best comedians. The best comedians are observational, they're narrating real life. Yeah. You look at the best posts, it's augmenting their reality. And a great friend of mine said, you don't have to tell word for word truth. It doesn't have to be factually exactly true. The gist of it has to be real to get that authenticity. But you can rearrange the timeline, you can change the scenario, you can change the characters, keep the root of the story there and then use that so you can completely anonymize it. So, yeah, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story is what basically the line is, don't overthink it. Keep the thread. Keep the thread there. Yeah. Jodie Goodchild: Another thing I was saying earlier this week or last week was that we were, my generation, were a generation of people that went out with a real camera attached to their wrist and we'd take probably 14 plus photos on a night out. There'd probably be two decent ones in amongst that. And then the next day we'd upload that album to Facebook and we wouldn't Even give it a second thought. And loads of us have still got those albums now. And those photos come back to haunt you of how you know, of, you know that when you were young and out and about. But yet we really overthink posting on LinkedIn when we, even with Instagram, you know, we might be on the beach and we might be like, wow, this is a really good moment capture. You take a picture, you put it on your Instagram story, you know, and you posted it. And I'm not saying, you know, LinkedIn is Facebook and Instagram, but there are ways that you can, some of the content that you would use for that, even if you're a business owner, you know, everything we post on Instagram or Facebook for your business is exactly the same as what you can post on LinkedIn because it is social, it's a social media and without that it's not social. So it's important to treat it like how you'd be chatting to people that you know and what conversations you'd be getting involved in. But yeah, the biggest challenge I find people have is the, is the overthinking and the worrying about, well, no one's going to care about what little old me's got to say. And in fact, one of my best stories that I love is there's a lady in my community called Bev and she runs a company called Frank hr. When I met her in October, she said, jodi, no one is going to want to talk hear me talking about hr. It's such a boring subject. And fast forward to now, she's had over 1 million impressions on LinkedIn. Um, she's literally like. But because she talks like a normal person about hr. HR is really complicated but Bev just talks about it in a normal, normal way and it's really resonated with people. And she's now out and about, people are going, oh, you're bev from Frank HR. I keep seeing you on LinkedIn. And she's got loads of new business from it and it's brilliant. And it's just, that's what I love. In the last seven weeks we've had 151 new business opportunities in our community. And that's only from 50 businesses that are submitting their weekly check ins that we do. And they are bits of, bits of, I say business, I should say leads. So they are people that are commenting on their post or dropping them a message to say, you know, can I find out more about this? Or coming in the DM saying I saw that post I'd love to find out a little bit more about how that works. That's the magic of being visible. If you think about the, that we're nearly at 700. When I looked yesterday, we're nearly at 700,000 impressions from the, from those in the community. If you were to pay for traditional marketing to get that kind of visibility, it would cost you at that point, probably would have cost, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds. But the members of my community pay 29.99amonth and they can cancel whenever they like. And, and it's something that's there to be, make people feel safe, have others to talk to, you know, connect with people who are on the same journey and, and just be visible. That's what it's all about, being visible so that people can see you're there and they can buy your stuff. Because if nobody can see you, they can't buy from you. You've not got a lead generation problem, you've got a visibility problem. I like that. Yeah, visibility Joanne Lockwood: problem. And that's what it is. And I, another great friend of mine, Penny Haslam, wrote a book called how to Be a Little Bit Famous. And Penny was the face of Weight Watchers for a while. She's also a TV news presenter for a while. And I also about Penny's book and she has this acronym pie and sorry Penny, I can't remember what the P and the I stand for because I always talk about the E. The E is exposure. So P is probably product. Yeah. And so you've got the best products in the world. You polish it, you treasure it, you nurture it, you go, wow, everyone's going to love my product, but if no one hears about it, they can't do anything about it. So the exposure element is the critical thing. So how do you showcase your wares? My mantra is always give away your best stuff for free. Yeah, Jodie Goodchild: agreed. I go back to, I was brought up in an Joanne Lockwood: era where people were pirating music on MP3s or Napster illegal copyright downloads. And it changed the market from being one that was. Revenue was generated from, from albums and CDs and vinyl to one that was generated by live appearances. Because if you, if you pirate my stuff, you download all my content, which I put freely on YouTube on my website. If you download that, you're gonna go, wow, I love Joe's stuff. I'm gonna keep following Joe. And then one day you think, oh, I can go and see Joe live. And then all I have to do is play my Greatest hits on stage. Because people go, oh, yeah, she did this bit. Oh, she did that bit. Nobody wants to hear your new material for the first time. They wanna hear the old stuff. So it's about that exposure, giving away stuff, being generous, being altruistic, giving. You expect nothing in return. Jodie Goodchild: Yeah. And then people warm to that generosity, don't they? They do. And there's an interesting stat that it takes eight to 11 interactions with somebody to build trust before they'll buy from you. And I read that and I kind of thought, that's really interesting. But how, you know, how is that true? And actually, when we. We started tracking results in the community, so we look at the volume of impressions, which is the amount of people that are seeing your posts, we look at leads generated, an amount of posts made. We've actually seen that in, in the community from those that we've got posting. They're authentic kind of content. It takes between six to eight posts for them to get one lead generated, which is pretty cool. And it's because they. They're not. Not saying eight times, buy my stuff, buy my stuff, buy my stuff. They're being human, authentic. They're sharing what they're up to and what they're doing for clients. And because people can then see a client commenting going, oh, yeah, that was brilliant. I'm so glad we worked together. You were excellent. I loved working with you. They then convert. And I think we've also moved away from that time where so many people would, you know, oh, you can't mention that client we've got because we don't want anyone else finding out about it. You know, we've got an NDA. You can't mention that. The birth of social media in the era that we're now in, your clients are on social. So every time I work with somebody, I will t. I'll say to them, as part of working with them, are you happy for me to mention you on social media? And they'll say, yes, great. Because when I finish the project, I'm going to say, just been in. I've just trained Mountjoy, who were one of the biggest brands in Portsmouth, and Simon Ingram, the owner, absolutely loved it. And to be fair, I love Simon. He's one of my biggest, biggest cheerleaders. And I'd actually now call him a friend, which is brilliant, but because I delivered such a good service and it really helped his business. But he talks about it more than I do and I get people coming to me all the time, or Simon's told me I need to speak to you. But that's the beauty again of social media, because if you do a good job and it helps those of us that are authentic, because there's also companies out there that use social media to trick people. There's, you know, the, the social. The personal brand is one that can be, you know, really powerful, but also it can be really scary because there's people that can build a personal brand that actually are dangerous to work with for, you know, many reasons, or they might be building a personal brand for the wrong reasons and you buy into them and you think, oh, they're really safe and I've seen what they do and then you give them your money, but actually they can't walk the walk, they can just talk the talk and then you've lost it. So I think it's really important to, when you're doing social media to also, you know, get those clients happy to mention their names and tag them in, because then people can see your clients going, yeah, that's brilliant. I loved it. You've just had this session and I think that really changes. The social proofing, I think that's the word for your book, whatever. You Joanne Lockwood: stop your brand or your public Persona becoming too big. And let me explain what I mean by that. So I was speaking on stage at an event at the XL in London last week and one of the keynotes there before me was Deborah Meaden. Wow. And you'd think Deborah Meaden, big Dragon celebrity, her fierce Persona that she shows on Dragon's Den and she did a Fireside chat and I just thought, wow, what a wonderful lady. What real down to earth conversation it was. So I was probably went in there with a bit of sort of apprehension, scared just about her brand. You mentioned Stephen Bartlett, you mentioned Daniel Priestley. I've met Daniel Priestley a couple of times and I'm a big fan of his score, apparently. That's Jodie Goodchild: cool. And use that. And I've had people come up to me going, oh, Joe, Joanne Lockwood: oh, I'm so honoured you want to speak to me. You'd never allow yourself to have a conversation. And if you're not careful, by building too big a brand, you can create this barrier and it's, how do you cut through that barrier to keep yourself real and accessible? That's a really good question. And one thing that I've Jodie Goodchild: always done is I've blended my online Persona with in person things. So I will take the time. The people that I build my network with on LinkedIn, I will take time to speak to them in person so that they know that, you know, the version of me they get online is the same version of me they get, you know, in, in person and vice versa. So I'll meet people on, in person and then they'll come and add me on LinkedIn. And I think that's just. It then builds a brand where people tell other people that you're the nicest person they've ever met and you're. And then I get, people come up to me and I've got a really, I've got a really cool picture actually of me that somebody captured for me that I had no idea what's happening. But there was a lady that had been following me and a few of her friends had met me and had said, oh, Jody's like amazing in person, like you should meet her. And this photo captured this moment of this woman just being so thankful and you can kind of just. It was a real. Yeah. So I try and blend the two in, but I can imagine at the moment for me, I'm, I'm managing that. But I think as things get bigger, I don't know how that will change. There's other creators, I guess you could call them. I would probably. I've only just recently admitted that I am an influencer, which is something I didn't want to think for, you know, for a long time. But I've admitted, you know, I'm trying to influence people for a good reason. So I'm an influencer. But there's people on LinkedIn that have, you know, brag that they've got, you know, 12,000 followers, you know, 30,000 followers, 40,000 followers. How many of those they actually know and how many of those are just people? They've just randomly added that. So my network is smaller, but it's worth more because a lot of those people actually know me and they've met me in person or we've, you know, we've had a conversation online. So I don't know if I can answer that. I think it's something I'm going to have to keep learning as I grow, I guess. But at the moment, I mean, I, again, one of the things that took me back last night that I feel really emotional about today is when my name was read out for the award for Entrepreneur of the Year. The amount of people in the room that kind of cheered and screamed, I almost, it felt like an out of body experience. But it just reminded me of how well I've done at building my brand. And it was a really humbling moment, actually. And everyone around me seemed to know that it was a given. You're going to win, that you're going to win it. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm just here for. When they read out my name, it was like, God, this is absolutely insane. And the amount of people that came up to me after, you know, to, to congratulate me and say, well done and what you're doing is brilliant, was a real, just a real heartwarming experience. And, and my girlfriend made a good point last night as well when we got in, is that she said they were the, the people, were the people that came up to you to say congratulations because they had the courage to do that. Imagine how many other people were there that wanted to say congratulations but didn't come and, you know, come and speak to you like something to be really proud of. And I'm, I'm almost on cloud nine today because you know how hard it is being an entrepreneur. And as I say, when you think of the word entrepreneur, I don't feel like I fit in that. But that's exactly what I'm trying to do, is break that mould of showing people that you don't have to look a certain way or act a certain way to, you know, to do well in life and be successful. Yeah. There's a, there's a couple of words that it Joanne Lockwood: feels inauthentic to use for yourself. So one of them is entrepreneur. I don't think anyone should call themselves an entrepreneur. People will describe you as one influencer. Someone else should call you an influencer, you shouldn't call yourself it. And the third one is ally. I don't think you should call yourself an ally. You should, you should. Other people should call you an ally. Yeah. So that there are words that you, you live up to rather than, rather than claim the badge. Yeah, Jodie Goodchild: you're right. Yeah, I like that. That's a really good way to put it. Joanne Lockwood: And one of the things I, I often say, and I don't apologise for saying it, because the old mantra was, it's not what you know, it's who you know. But I, I, I, I've now evolved that into, it's not what you know who you know, but it's about who knows you. Yes. And, yeah, it may sound quite harsh, but I, I actually say to people, I don't care who you are if you know who I am. And I don't mean that insincerely, but that's about the influencers about being, have that really strong personal brand is that I don't need you, I don't need your business card. I remember going to BNI meetings and we always told, don't give away your business card, always collect them so you can control the conversation. I can't control the conversation with 30,000 people on LinkedIn. I've just got to make sure that you know who I am. So when you see me do something, you go, that's Joe. I'll listen and hopefully then you'll make a personal connection later. But I can't connect with thousands of people as long as that one individual who's listening right now connects with me, then that's the personal brand effect, if you like. Yeah, yeah, I guess I've not thought about Jodie Goodchild: that. I guess there's some people that you can build that relationship with and the ones that you can't, you know, going back to those lurkers, like you say, there's people that listen that don't necessarily interact. But I do try to make a relationship of some sorts with people that I meet, and I do. I'm on the volunteer team for LinkedIn Local Portsmouth as well. When I do the name badges, some of the other ladies, they'll laugh because they were like, how do you know everyone? And I don't know how I know everyone because my memory, typically outside of work, is terrible. But I've got a good knack for being like, oh, there's James. Here you go, here's your card. And it just makes people feel special. And I think, again, that goes back to, you know, maybe traumas that I've had of coming out and, you know, feeling like I want people to see me for me. So I make that extra little effort to make people feel special when I meet them and remember their name or something about them. And there was a lady that came up to me last night and she went, you probably don't even know who I am. And I was like, of course I know who you are. You're from your own physiological. Right? And she was like, yeah. And I was like, yeah, I know who you are. Like, we've spoken. And I think. I think it's important to make, if you can make somebody feel good about themselves, to do it, because life is bloody tough. And, you know, for. For all of us small business owners, particularly in the. You know, with everything that's going on at the moment and in the economy, it's really difficult and it's so hard running a business. You know, I've had a really good quarter, but it only kind of everything tipped over and, you know, like the last couple of weeks before that, I started to panic. And I've got friends that are running businesses that are really struggling and they've not even got sales and marketing experience. And I do sometimes think I'm quite lucky about that because I can, you know, I've got the. I know what. What needs to happen when you start talking to somebody and there's an opportunity. So it's tough out there right now, isn't it? It's tough. We've got to all help each other. It is tough. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I'm in the DEI space, the HR space, the. Yeah, the stuff that's been targeted by presidents across the water. And the. Yeah, DEI is becoming a toxic sector. So, yeah, it is. And I also earn a lot of money on professional speaking and budgets are getting tighter as well. So, yeah, you're right. It is a more considered budget holder now. It's not spending the money the way they used to. So, yeah, it's a different world. Which I suppose comes to some of the subtext of this podcast is the inclusion bite. It's the inclusion. How do you and your small business community think about broadening your demographic appeal? Because if you're not careful, you think as a. A young white woman, and therefore you're trying to attract young white women into your audience. But actually there's a lot of young black women, older black women, there's people with disability. So how do you encourage maybe small business owners in the community to think about the broader impact of their marketing language and who they're appealing to, to get different sectors, different markets? Yeah, Jodie Goodchild: I think naturally for me, because of obviously, you know, my background and coming out, I do think very inclusively. And that was the whole reason behind my community, was that I knew there were businesses out there that can't afford marketing, that need to get new clients, and they're in a catch 22. Because in order to do marketing, you need money, but in order to, you know, to get leads, you need money. So it's like you can't. You can't do marketing without money. And money makes everything, you know, the world go around. So I wanted to make a space where it made it inclusive for people that had, you know, little to no budget to be able to actually do some marketing that would help them grow their business because of that £900. But I think it's just about the messaging and making it, you know, being. Also being cautious about another time in conversation yesterday, about when you're Trying to grow a community, you need to make sure you let the right people in. Because if you. If you grow a broad and diverse community and you let somebody in that has, you know, let's just say I didn't realise and somebody joined that's homophobic. You know, that's. You've got to be cautious of, you know, protecting the community that you've built. And it's actually a challenge that I'm going to have as things start to get bigger. Especially one of the things on my list at the moment is how can I have more control over who I let in my community without feeling like it makes it inaccessible for the people I want in? So it's a whole. It's a whole new challenge. I think I've gotten, you know, somebody I was talking to yesterday said, you know, well, you could interview people before they join, but then when you're looking to scale something, it kind of almost. There'll be a way around it. But I think it's just, you know, making people, keeping things simple for people and making, you know, using language that, you know, resonates with people, makes them feel comfortable with you building trust and, you know, chatting with them beforehand to make them feel comfortable. I don't know if that answers the. Joanne Lockwood: Question, but, yeah, as you're talking, I think I was thinking it's. It's quite a minefield because everybody is someone else's weirdo, to quote Scott Adams. And we, we have our own. Our own thoughts, our own lens, our own echo chamber of what we believe is right. And other people have their own lens and echo chamber that they believe is right. So someone who has a homophobic view, for whatever reason, has a belief that they're right. They don't think I'm just going to be a nasty person for the sake of it. Their echo chamber is telling them that when you're trying to build communities and trying to be inclusive, is trying to create a space, a broad church, however you want to describe it, where difference of opinions and perspectives can coexist. Psychological safety is still there. So people can be themselves, they can still bring themselves out, but people understand the barriers and the boundaries of what is free speech and what is accountability of that free speech and the impact it has on others. So, yeah, it's a real tough gig to not to de. Platform or disenfranchise people for having a different view, provided that their view doesn't weaponize against people. Yeah, yeah. And also just things Jodie Goodchild: like people that might join that have a hidden agenda of great there's 90 businesses in that community. I could probably sell to 50 of those. I'll join and then I'll try and message each one of them and sell them things. That's also not what we're trying to create. But it is going to be a challenge for me as I, as I grow the community because by being inclusive, I don't want to then be not inclusive by making it so difficult for people to join because I want it to be a, almost a bit of a no brainer that they know they need to grow their business. They don't have, you know, thousands or hundreds of pounds to do it. So they've got a low, low, no commitment option that can help them. And yeah, I want to. It's one of the things that I really need to kind of consider as we start to, to get bigger conundrum. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah, it is, yeah. People, you're too known as people are people and there's now as queer as focus I think is another phrase, you know, people will always surprise you by. Yeah, and whatever could happen probably will happen. And so yeah, disputes, conflicts, how you handle that becomes a really important part of it. And yeah, but being inclusive you can't exclude. It's trying to find that fine balance. It is, Jodie Goodchild: yeah, it is. So where's the future live? As Joanne Lockwood: a, as a. Recently, I say recently, you know, just out of the, out of the cupboard or closet. Where does your life go from here? You know, you feel more empowered, you've got your own business, you're, you're making some great waves, you're building communities. So where's the future going for you? Yeah, it's a really good question now. Everything that I've done Jodie Goodchild: has been about impact and that's been my word for my business. You know, how can I impact somebody else's business and help them and lift them up? And I've realised recently, as many do when they run their own business, that I spent so much time in amongst the, you know, building the business and helping people that I've almost actually neglected myself a little bit because I've focused so much on the business. I've kind of, I review things regularly. I've just done my quarter one review and I've got some plans in for quarter two. And one of the things I'm focusing on this quarter is some R and R. So Sophie and I are gonna look at, we're looking at potentially moving and also we're gonna book ourselves a nice holiday so that we can do some rr. But yeah, it's One of the things I need to, you know, running a business is like a roller coaster, isn't it? You learn as you go and the ups and downs and, you know, whilst I want to focus on the business and make impact, I also want to, you know, make money. But then I also want to make. Remind myself of why I started it, which was to have more freedom in life, to enjoy life more. And I've got much more, so much more purpose to life now because of, you know, what I get to do for a living. But I do need to make sure that I actually enjoy living life a little bit more. So whilst there'll be, you know, plans and things in the business, I also need to dedicate some time moving forward to reminding myself, you know, we wanted to. We did this so that we could go work in a different country for a week or, you know, go and rent a little log cabin somewhere and do some work there. So that's what I want to do. I want to kind of make sure I don't lose the tip of balance again and that. That's critically important. It's. I Joanne Lockwood: talk about trying to evolve a rather work life balance. A life work balance. So, yes, I live and work to fund not. Not. Yes, not work. And then try and squeeze the living in. And I think that became my realisation over the last five, six years that you've got to have the joy back into life. And I've just turned 60 on a different curve of my life, my career and my aspirations and my life is now more important than it's ever been. Yeah. I'm 60% rather than 60 years old. I've still got 40%, a good life that I want to live. Yeah. And I've seen how some people work all their lives for somebody else and then they get to retirement age and they're. They're knackered, they've had enough. They make it because they're healthy, Jodie Goodchild: because they've just spent all of that time, you know, working themselves into the ground. You know, I see it all the time, you know, people's mental health and that they. And it's almost like. It's almost like being in a. In a. Like a domestically violent relationship. Because you know that they're taking the mickey out of you by making you work all of the hours, but you don't stop anything about it yet. You'll, you know, moan at your friends about it and say, you know, this is happening and, you know, this is not good. I'm doing all this, but don't stop. And it really saddens me that some people kind of just go through that Groundhog Day weekly and they let the corporate world, you know, slave them until they burn out and, you know, their brain ends up, you know, having a mental breakdown on them. It's really sad, actually. And I wish more people would kind of wake up to the corporate slave drivery that's kind of going on and go out and do their own thing. And I almost wonder if that's the world that we're moving into, we're seeing. I've done a lot of work in some of the colleges locally, and the kids. At 16, I couldn't even make pasta. And these kids have got businesses, like, it's crazy. And I think we're moving more into a world now where the next generation want to do their own business and they want to do things rather than going to work for a corporate where, you know, you might get, you know, the way I say it to my friends is if you're good at sales, you know, could you sell. If your salary's £3,000amonth, could you sell £3,000 worth of stuff in a month? And they go, yeah, well, I'm selling, you know, 15 grand a month. And I'm like, well, then if you did that for yourself, you would be laughing. And they kind of go, oh, yeah, boys, you know, it's too scary. I just wish more people would give it a try and just take the leap because it's worth it when you get there. Joanne Lockwood: It is. But if you've got stability, then it's really hard to risk. That's true. Using a poker analogy, pushing all your chips and going all in on a venture where you haven't got that experience. And you know as well as I do, once you've made that leap, you look back and go, well, that wasn't that difficult. But the time. It's a massive, great big golf, isn't it? You're coming out. You've got to come out as a small business owner. And it's. Yeah, I like the coming out Jodie Goodchild: analogy. Might be a LinkedIn post, depending on that, you know. Yeah, Joanne Lockwood: yeah. It's not just for queer people. Everyone can come out or something. Yeah, Jodie Goodchild: no, it's really. That's a really good point. I saw a great talk the other Joanne Lockwood: day. I was actually at. With LinkedIn speaking at a LinkedIn conference on. Wow, that's really cool. On Tuesday. And I hosted a big roundtable. One of the. One of the opening keynotes was a lady from, I think our organisations is 55 redefined lady called Lindsay and she was talking about ageism in the workplace and how the fact that our population is now getting older because we are not having children at a sustainable rate anymore globally, it's not just the UK. So we're having 1.2 children per woman as opposed to what's necessary of being two point something children per woman. That's really interesting. So millennials become over 50, the first million to come over 50 in less than six years time or six years time. So 2031 I think it is. So we're in a position now where the bulk of the workforce will be over 50 and we've always been focusing on what are we going with Gen Z, Gen Alphas, all the new technology. But we've got this workforce now who can't afford to retire, who are ageing but want to stay active. Maybe they haven't been brought up with technology, whereas technology is key. So how do we now get people who are that veterans or classic employees or classic workforce to re engage? And I see a lot of women entrepreneurs who've been through starting a family, they checked out to the BS of corporate life. I don't want to go back to that BS anymore. I want my life, work balance. I want to still look after my family, my children. I want to be a great, great person in the community. And that's why you see many, many women starting businesses in their 40s and 50s and being very successful at it. So how do we nurture that ageing population within our small business communities? Yeah, Jodie Goodchild: it's a great question and you're absolutely right. And I'm thinking of women that I know that have gone through that and they've done that and it's a. I don't think it's an easy, easy question to answer, is it? But I guess I think as a woman, as a woman myself, and you can relate to this, I think when you get to that age, like I'm 39 this year, so I'm nearly, I'm 40 next year. But I've never felt so confident in who I am and knowing what I'm about. And I think part of that is that maturing as well and living life and starting to really understand what's important and what's not. But yeah, it's a challenge, isn't is? Yeah. I think when we talk about being inclusive, we've got to start, Joanne Lockwood: you know, it's very easy to walk into a room and see a person with grey hair or wrinkles. I Think, what do they know? You know, they can't be with it or they can't have any value here. Yeah. But behind the eyes, they're still the same person they were when they were. When they were 25. They still got the same get up and go. Yeah. And Jodie Goodchild: that's actually really. I was talking to my mum the other day and I said to her, I was like, I can't believe I'm 39. That means next year I'm gonna be 40. And I said, I've got a vivid memory of being in my nan's back garden and my nan telling me that my mum was about to turn 40. And I had an absolute meltdown. I started crying because I thought that she was so old that she was gonna die soon. And now I'm actually that age. I understand how young she still felt. And actually, she was just in her prime and her daughter is sat there crying because she thinks that she's only got a few years left with her mum because she's, you know, turning 40. Yeah, I get it. I still feel, you know, 20 years old and you start to see, you know, wrinkles appear or, you know, blooming baggy eyes and all sorts. You think, God, how is this happening to me? It's. I still feel young. And then you've got, you know, we've got menopause. Then add into the equation, and there's so much going on, which I love about that at the moment, and all the education that's now to going, you know, all the women that have kind of got together that are making it, man, you know, trying to make it mandatory for workplaces. A lot of the ladies that I know in Portsmouth, we're very lucky. We've got so many menopause champions here in our city that are educating people, but we still don't know enough about it. We're still, you know, lots of women are, you know, told that they're depressed and they need to take antidepressants naturally. They just need a little bit of hrt and overnight, you know, they've completely changed. I read Davina McCall's MenoPausing book and it was one of the best reads I've ever read. And a few people said, why did you ask for that book? Like, you're not even that age. And I was like, because it's really important to educate ourselves about our bodies and what happens and what to know. Because I don't want to be one of those women that, you know, have. Have to go through, you know, being told that they're, you know, depressed for years and then losing a chunk of your life when you've only just got it back in the first place to then, you know, to menopause. And I love seeing and reading all of the things that are going on about that and all of the research that's now going into it and what's being done to help women, because that, that, that's another layer of stress for, like, you say, the, the older ladies that are still in business, because it's really tough. Like, it really affects you mentally and physically and something can be completely black and white, but in, you know, in the womb, in. In a perimenopausal menopause brain, it's not. And women are losing their jobs because they've, you know, for something that's not their fault. And it's absolutely crazy. Yeah. And as we know, Joanne Lockwood: menopause can start at any age. Yeah, it can. Many women are going through perimenopause in their early 30s. Yeah. And they've got no idea. Yeah, Jodie Goodchild: it's absolutely. It's absolutely the subject I really enjoy learning about. I went to a women's health event in Portsmouth a couple of weeks ago and hormones on the blink were talking and I found it so educational, just understanding, you know, things to look out for, you know, how the hormones spike. And, you know, it's just good to see that there's lots going on in our city, particularly that's to help women. And we were a city that talk about it a lot as well. Again, one of my. One of my members had posted something the other day about her HRT cream, I think it is, that she uses or pump, and it went viral because she was just like, you know, I was feeling a bit off and I, you know, did three pumps instead of two and bang, I was fine. And so Joanne Lockwood: I saw that. Did you see that? Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. Yeah. That's one Jodie Goodchild: of the ladies in my community, Bev. And we were talking about this morning and I was like, it's brilliant you're talking about that. Because that's the kind of thing we need to be visible talking about, because, again, it educates people to go, oh, I've been feeling crap. I didn't know. Maybe I'll try and give myself a couple of extra pumps today and see if it makes me feel better. And there were people going, I did that. And it had the same to me. And you're like, I love this. Like, we're talking about it. We're actually having conversations, which is Brilliant. Yeah. I feel quite. I don't. Joanne Lockwood: I'm not sure what the word I'm going to use here, but as a trans woman, I get my blood tests and my hormone profile tests done very regularly by the gp, by the gender clinics, various other people. So I. I know almost to the nanomole of my oestrogen levels, my testosterone levels, my free or the prolactins, all these kind of levels, whereas most. I don't know many women who are going through menopause who've actually had their hormone profile tested. Yeah. So people and the doctors are reluctant because they say, oh, there's no point testing your hormones because we don't know what's right for you, but if you never do any testing, you're never going to get any baselines. And it's all done by almost like a chemistry set where you try and try a bit of this and a bit of that and see what happens. And you nudge it up a bit, put a Mariner coil in, see if that helps. If that doesn't help, then put some gel on. We do a bit of this. Yeah. Nobody really coming up with a credible strategy for half the population. Because it is half the population. I think it's 52% Jodie Goodchild: or something, isn't it? 52, 53%. That's crazy. And it's also crazy that women are having to pay themselves privately to get these things to then take it to their doctors, because doctors aren't trained properly in menopause, so they don't really know what they're looking for. I was with a menopause nurse a couple of weeks ago at an event and we got chatting and she was sharing with the group that a lady that she'd. That had gone to see her, had gone to her female doctor as well, which makes it even worse, and had said, you know, I'm feeling really run down. I think, you know, obviously gave a bit more info than that, but the doctor's response was, well, maybe you should kind of take a bit more care about how you look and how you appear and that might solve the problem. And that came from a woman. It's just crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a whole other episode. Yeah, it is. It's absolutely crazy. And I. I can recommend some lovely. There's a friend of mine called Jo Morgan. Do you know Jo? Don't Joanne Lockwood: think I do, no. You two would get on really well. But you should do Jodie Goodchild: one of these episodes with Jo Morgan, because she is. She's a sex educator and she's in the same field as you. And you two would get on like a house on fire. I'll introduce you both. Oh, it'd be fabulous. So if you're listening Joanne Lockwood: to this, keep a lookout for the episode with Joe Morgan, which will be coming up soon, I'm sure. Yeah. Jodie, it's been absolutely fascinating. We've been yakking away now for over an hour and a half. Previously in the green room and now on this episode. Yeah, I mean, you're very inspiring. You've obviously got building a strong community. How could people get hold of you if they need to find out more? Come and find me on LinkedIn. Just type Jodie Goodchild: in Jodie Goodchild. I pretty much look, I've got better, probably a bit better hair. My hair's a bit scruffy today because of the awards last night. But you can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on Instagram, which is Jodiegoodchild, and I've got a Facebook page, Jodie Goodchild Ltd. As well. You can find me on all of those, but probably the best is LinkedIn because of the amount of free content I share to educate. So come and find me and learn some things that are going to help you. Joanne Lockwood: Jodie, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. I've loved Jodie Goodchild: it. And we could probably carry on chatting for another four hours. We've got so much to share, so I've really enjoyed it. And like I said at the start, it's been a pleasure to finally get to chat with you after admiring from afar. And what you do for our community as a, you know, LGBTQ member is just amazing. And the amount that you do to, you know, say your peace and protect, you know, our queer family is, you know, I know there's a lot of people that really, really thank you for that. So keep doing what you're doing because you are amazing. You humble Joanne Lockwood: me. Thank you. As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites and become part of our ever growing community, driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, stories? What a vision to share. I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk and let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.