--- title: "Confidence, Balance, And Success" episode: 158 date: 2025-05-08 guest: "James R Elliot" canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/158-confidence-balance-and-success audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-158/audio.mp3 --- # Confidence, Balance, And Success Joanne Lockwood is joined by transformational coach and speaker James R. Elliott to unpack what confidence, balance, and success look like when you stop relying on the corporate ladder for validation. Drawing on James’s experience in global tech organisations and his shift into entrepreneurship after redundancy, they challenge the myth of corporate stability and the idea that working harder is always the answer. Together they explore what helps people thrive at work: leaders who treat people as people, cultures where it’s safe to experiment and learn from mistakes, and the courage to speak up with authenticity. They discuss resilience and perseverance through change, the trap of repeating old strategies when organisations reshuffle, and why growth often requires a deliberate pivot in mindset and approach. They also get practical about sustainable performance. James shares what he’s learned about burnout, boundaries, rest, and self-care, including how health and wellbeing underpin long-term freedom and fulfilment. The conversation closes with a reminder that meaningful progress comes from reflection, learning, and choosing strategies that support both ambition and wellbeing. ## Chapters - 00:00 — Introduction and Welcome - 01:30 — Corporate Career in Tech Industry - 05:28 — "Love, Layoffs, and Corporate Awards" - 11:56 — Challenges of Peer Leadership Promotion - 19:45 — Embracing Change for Success - 22:00 — Embrace Authenticity Despite Fear - 28:53 — Critique of Current School Systems - 34:02 — Future Career Trends and Opportunities - 39:56 — Creativity Emerges During Rest - 44:42 — Automate to Save Time - 48:19 — Read Daily for Growth Success - 57:39 — "Modern Solutions for New Distractions" - 01:00:47 — Embrace 'And' Over 'Or' - 01:03:46 — "Amplifying Voices for Change" ## Key takeaways - Actionable approaches for overcoming adversity, building perseverance, and redefining the concept of failure as a growth opportunity. - The impact of corporate culture on individual well-being, engagement, and organisational performance. - Rethinking “learned behaviours” in career progression and resisting the cycle of unproductive ambition within hierarchical structures. - Navigating change by developing adaptability, challenging entrenched mindsets, and embracing both individual and systemic innovation. - Practical techniques for cultivating psychological safety, allowing teams to learn and contribute without fear of retribution. - The critical importance of self-care, setting boundaries, and recharging to stay effective and prevent burnout—particularly within entrepreneurial and leadership roles. - Strategies for future-proofing your career and business by investing in lifelong learning, creative problem-solving, and balancing automation with human creativity. ## FAQs ### What inspired James R. Elliott to focus on confidence, balance, and success? James’ journey into transformational coaching and leadership development stemmed from a career in large tech corporations, personal challenges, and pivotal moments of redundancy. He emphasised that setbacks, often labelled as failures, are invaluable opportunities for growth and learning rather than defeat. His mission emerged from a drive to empower others to unlock their potential and pursue a fulfilling life aligning with both professional and personal aspirations. --- ### How does corporate culture impact inclusion and employee wellbeing? James and Joanne discussed how treating employees as mere numbers can lead to disengagement, poor mental health, and high turnover. They stressed that inclusion thrives when people feel valued as individuals, not just as resources. An inclusive, people-first culture enhances staff retention, productivity, and overall organisational performance, whilst reducing absenteeism and improving morale. --- ### What role does resilience and adaptability play in today’s professional environment? Both speakers highlighted that resilience, perseverance, and a willingness to embrace change are essential traits, especially amid constant disruption and uncertainty. Drawing on their shared corporate experiences, they observed that organisations and individuals who adapt and innovate are more likely to thrive. They cited examples such as Kodak and Blockbuster, which failed due to resistance to change, affirming that agility is crucial to long-term success. --- ### Why do so many professionals feel ‘stuck’ in corporate roles, and what strategies help overcome this? Many employees fall into the cycle of waiting for recognition or promotion, only to be overlooked after organisational restructures or leadership changes. Joanne advocates for strategic career moves — sometimes externally rather than internally — and challenges the common belief that perseverance within the same company or role will be enough. The key message: change your approach, invest in personal growth, and continually assess if your strategy is working for you. --- ### How can leaders promote psychological safety and encourage innovation? Psychological safety is paramount for teams to flourish. James criticised cultures that punish mistakes rather than viewing them as learning opportunities, positing that fear of failure stifles creativity and progress. Authentic leaders foster environments where team members are empowered to experiment, share ideas openly, and develop resilience through constructive feedback and support. --- ### How does neurodiversity contribute to workplace inclusion and innovation? The discussion acknowledged the strengths neurodiverse individuals, such as those with ADHD or OCD, bring to the workplace. James shared his personal neurodiverse journey, emphasising the importance of aligning work with one’s strengths and passions. Joanne pointed to the necessity of meeting people where they are, adapting education and employment practices to enable everyone to thrive, and rejecting one-size-fits-all approaches. --- ## Transcript Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyone not only belongs but thrives? You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo, and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. Today is episode 158 with the title confidence, balance, and success. And I have the absolute honor and privilege to welcome James R Elliott. Hello. James is a transformational coach, an international speaker with over twenty four years of helping business leaders, entrepreneurs, and professionals build thriving businesses whilst maintaining freedom and their personal fulfillment. When I asked James to describe his superpower, he said it is empowering people to unlock their potential and take action towards a confident, balanced, and successful life. So, James, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Joanne. Appreciate it. That's a pleasure. We'll chat just now. And, you're, I believe, in from Toronto in Canada? Yes. I am. Yep. Born and raised here. James R. Elliott: Traveled to the world, but born and raised right here at home. Yeah. Joanne Lockwood: You're across the border behind the Northern Wall. Yeah. Of, James R. Elliott: Exactly. The Northern Trump Wall. The United States Of Trump at the moment. Yeah. We we are. We're behind you that Northern Trump the invisible perhaps Trump wall, but it's there. So, James, it's great to have you Joanne Lockwood: on. I'm I'm pleased you've given up your time today. Your work revolves around, confidence is a balance and helping others, because you wanna help them create their life they love. So what inspired you? What got you into this? What's your experience? My life, a life of James R. Elliott: a lot of lessons and learning. You may not wish for my life, but but it I love it. And it's been great ups and downs, failures. And I no longer believe in failure. It's just only growth and learnings and feedback. You win or you learn really is, is, is my thoughts. So depending how far back you want me to go. Long story. Well, I'll start with the start with the corporate world. And then we come back to the childhood too, but the, the corporate world learned, learned a lot there working for companies like IBM, Novell, which is the Microsoft, the 1980s and, and Lenovo, the computer company. Working for years and years there as well. A variety of roles, all dealing with people, all touching people, all helping people. In fact a lot of my career it was my role to support and empower our resellers our business partners to do well. In variety of ways and when they did well they sold more of our products Thus, we did well in myself. You know, I was compensated on how well they did. So it was in my best interest to make sure that a lot of our business partners, some very, very small mom and pop shops, multi, multi, multimillion dollar. Like I said, some of the $50.60, dollars 60, dollars 70 million quarters, some quarters, depending where I was working with. And I, I always had a combination of mom and pop shops who were very proud to when he hit his first million, this one gentleman very, and I was proud of him too. Very proud. I've had, like I said, companies with $30.35, dollars 40,000,000 quotas that we're working on. Coming from there, learning a lot, learning a great deal, but also learning, you know, how I don't wanna run my business. Learning great leaders, not so great leaders, great cultures, not so great cultures. It it was a fantastic lesson that way when I started my own business eleven years ago, helping people. A business is small and large. It's been an incredible journey again, up and down and all around like much of life is and helps us learn high highs and low lows, just like life, just like leadership, just like entrepreneurship, right? Life has a lot of great stuff. And, and we focus on that. We feel pretty great. Life has a lot of not so great stuff and we focus on the not so great stuff. We're going to feel not so great. So I've learned related to, to become highly resilient and perseverant. One of the things I speak on, one of the things I love to teach is perseverance and, and really how to get through immense challenges, tough times, adversity, during great times of challenge and change and how leaders can help themselves and their teams do that too. Because that was me. It's a very authentic thing that was me persevering through all the things that, and I'm happy to happy to chat about those. We can get at them too. But that's really how I got into what I, what I, what I do. I I've always been a, I love teaching, always love helping people. I love supporting people. I'm making an impact and really helping people who want to help people. I always love to do that. And so it became a fairly natural thing for me, first of the coach and then very, very quickly transitioned to being speaker teacher. Cause I, I just love giving love teaching love big audiences. That that's in a nutshell, how, at least recently, how I got in things, oh, oh, laid off in the height of my corporate career, not once, but twice. So, and I, I didn't listen to the universe or whoever, whatever the first time. And it was, it was interesting, like winning. Not to toot my own horn, but says, add as example, that's going to happen to anyone IBM employee of the year. And then a couple of years later, laid off corporate downsizing or moving jobs or moving them back here or doing this. We're shutting in your division, took a year off the summer of James traveled the world, lived the summer of the cottage, and then, went back to the corporate world. And almost four years later, you know, calling me, congratulations, James, you've won the awards club. You've won president's club. Amazing work. You blew your numbers away. You did this and that. This is your great work. And I said, great. Well, when is it? Well, they said, well, we're actually, we're going to give you money instead of letting you come to the awards events. I said, why? Why would, why I wanna go down, like, have some fun. See my colleagues. He's like, well, because actually today is your last day here with us. So I was like, what? Say congratulations and goodbye. It was it was almost comical. I'm like, are you being serious? He's like, yeah. I am. I'm like, okay. I mean, great. And it was like I won the lottery almost, Joanne, because I I wasn't happy. I wanted out of there. I made great money, but I was I was depressed. I was anxious. I wasn't happy with my life. Fortunately, I think that's a lot of people these days. Yeah. So how's work? Oh, it sucks, but it pays the bills or works work or it's there and works okay. Or I live for the weekends or some permutation of that, which breaks my heart. So that's, that's, you know, I thought after the second layoff, I started to pay attention to the nudges from the universe. I'm like, okay. Okay. It's it's a sign. So then started my own business. I always knew I love to help people. Started doing a few things and now found my way here to what I really love doing to to empowering people, teaching, speaking, and leading. That is that's Joanne Lockwood: a fascinating story. I so much of that resonates with me, in that find that epiphany moment where you, you realize what this core machine is all about. It's never about you, is it? That's that's the problem. You think you're the the key pillar. You think you're the driving strategy. You're right in there. And then in a blink, you're irrelevant. And it's like, hang on a minute. That was first of the year. It's exact. And it's a shame that I James R. Elliott: suppose that's one thing I love to help organizations with because when people feel like numbers, they're gonna be disengaged. They're gonna be on this thing all day or, or social media or, or actively dis distracted when they feel like numbers, they feel like not they're valuable. They're just there to push buttons. They can be replaced at any time. They may they may just will be. When people feel that way, it harms corporate culture. It harms everything. When people feel like nothing, disposable, worthless, just a number, they can get can go in a blink of an eye, you know, and it's it's ironic. Our parents always say, you'll find a stable job, get a good, reliable job. There is, I don't that exists these days, unless you have your own business. I don't think that exists in, in, in life anymore. As I learned and you learned in the blink of an eye and that's why I I do love, you know, with taught teaching leaders just how to have people feel like people because they'll do so much better. They'll go so much further. They'll go way above and beyond when you're an awesome leader and you treat people like people and, and really take care of them. Yes. It takes a little extra time air quotes. However, it actually, the long run saves you immense time because people aren't leaving, you don't have to retrain people. People get greater, greater results, greater satisfaction, absenteeism, greater performance on the job, greater productivity. So actually saves money, saves time in the long, in the long run by spending a little more time, making sure people, your people are great and give them what they need. Yeah. I do a lot of work with Joanne Lockwood: the, middle managers, senior managers. I wouldn't say board level, but those people are aspiring. And too often I'm on these calls listening to what they're saying. And I feel that they they they drunk the corporate call aid or whatever the phrase is where they believe if they keep trying, keep their head down, keep pushing, keep pushing, they'll be recognized as they're spotted. And then there's a change of management. And then suddenly they find that they've gotta start again. They gotta re re brown those whatever words you wanna use. They gotta Yeah. Exactly. Or someone brings in James R. Elliott: their best friend. Exactly. You're you're right. It happened. I've seen it happen many times. And I've been I cut you off, but you're right. You know, someone's next in line. They're just about there. You don't get promoted, but then they they get sick or someone dies, someone leaves, someone gets hired out or retires or whatever and or downsides. And then you're right. Then the new, the new, new, the new exec brings all his own people, her own people in their own people in. And there where you were at literally almost they walk at the tip of the mountain. Well, you gotta climb all the way back up that mountain to to like, is it brown nose your way up or lead your way up or prove your way up? Yeah. Yeah. But that's the learned behavior, isn't it? It it's Joanne Lockwood: if you get knocked back down six levels, you you go back to your learned behavior, which is how to climb back. I often say to these people, what do you think is gonna be different this time? Fair. Fair. And they go I said, well, isn't it time to just admit that you need a new strategy? You need to attack this from a different way. You need to change jobs, change companies, go on your own, or be more strategic internally because and then I've I've mentored these people over years and they come back and it happened again. I said, okay. So what have we learned this time? What exactly did we learn? Last time. And the alert behavior is get back on the same runs and do the same again and keep trying. I guess you better work harder, work later, show more, James R. Elliott: brown knows the same versus you're right changing your strategy there changing. There was a saying I don't know who came up with it might have been me but if you wanna raise, you know, get one to raise a promotion go get a new go go for it for a new company, versus you know begging for a little small little raise at a current company. Go work for new companies, say I'm amazing. This is my experience. If you want me, this is, this is what are the, my, my prices to, to have me versus begging and clamoring at a current company. And been there, done that for, for a small raise when you're doing so much. You know? It's getting I mean, Joanne Lockwood: we've seen examples of of very famous people who've started out as the janitor and ended up as the CEO or whatever. We see that, but there are there are only a handful of these people in the world, and they've got and they write the books and they tell the story. Well, exactly. The answer is for most people, it's not yeah. As you say, you're better off thinking a different tactic because I always find that you get anchored to your starting point. You're always seen as an apprentice, always seen as an intern, always seen as a junior. And the people around you keep growing around you, and they always see you five levels below. So you've gotta come in at a higher level and people perceive you differently. And that's a that's a real challenge for people to escape their mindset. I think, Ray, especially when when peers, and I've seen it, James R. Elliott: two peers, one gets promoted and they're now the leader, the manager, the supervisor, and and their body or or just their peers are like, well, I'm not listening to you. You're you're just one of me. I'm not listening to any causes a lot of issues and then often that leader fails unless they find a way to make it work or unless they're moved to a totally different team or again, if they go to a totally different company as a leader that can work better. But you're right. If they just promoted to a leader of their peers, it's like, oh, it's just it's just John. It's just it's just Jane, whatever. They don't really see them as as absolute authority. So it's it's super, super interesting to see that as well unless they are moved to a dramatically new team or company. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I I got out of the corporate life in the nineties. I used to work for a private bank in the city of London. Oh, cool. Global global private bank. And, I remember I had this a fantastic job. I was in IT, computer at the time. I used to be head of global systems. So I used to deploy PCs and servers, Nobel network, actually, as it happened. There we go. Yeah. Around the world. They did a big reorg, and then they gave me this new job, which was responsible for year 2,000 compliance in, the DECVAC systems, the VACVMS systems, the Navell, well, the PC. So I was now and I got a letter from the IT director saying, basically, if you mess up, your bonus is on the line. And I read this, I thought, one, I don't want the job. Didn't want I was quite I loved my old job. The the job I applied for was the one I had. I loved that job. I really loved it, and I wanted to keep doing it. And secondly, I don't wanna be spoken that way. I don't wanna be so you and I went I I remember handing my notice in the the the HR director took me in. And I sort of sat there. You could see he was fuming and angry because it to work for a bank, there's a lot of due diligence. It probably took them six months worth of due diligence to hire me. And that I'd only been there, like, eighteen months or something. So it was fast there because I just thought I had their life. And I just went, I'm sorry. I'm out. I'm gonna start my own business. I don't need this anymore. And I never looked back. Yeah. At the time, I had a good salary and I thought, wow, what am I doing here? And so when I say to people, sometimes you gotta make that choice and it I know it's a privilege. Yeah. It's a privilege to be able to have that choice. Not everybody has that, but you can always you can always hide behind it and say, I can't. I can't. James R. Elliott: And sometimes you just my family, my money, my this, my that. It's I don't know how I agreed. Agreed. I, you know, it it's it's it's really interesting to see. And I've seen with people too, they're that they're at a they're a great, let's say, great sales rep, great leader, but a horrible company. And I'm like, Leaf, go to a new company. But but I guess, unfortunately, they they pay them quite well because they know they treat them poorly. They pay them quite well at these companies I've seen just enough to keep them there because they're like, well, if I go anywhere else, I wouldn't make as much, which I think is is a limiting belief. It's a bit true because, yeah, they do pay them well so they can abuse them so they don't leave. But also, like, she said, well, this is what I do. I sell this right. I lead this type of company. Well, could you not sell that or lead that type of company? And they, their thoughts are, well, no, this is all I know how to sell. This is all no leadership skills, sales skills are people skills, relationships, skills, they're cross. It could work for you could sell bread or spaceships. It's people skills. It's asking questions of talking to people, leading it, understanding people, making people people feel human and engaging people. Those beliefs are excuses. Like you said, I can't because blank is is Yeah. Been there. I can't get married. I can't start a family. I Joanne Lockwood: can't buy a house. I can't. I can't. I can't. Because, because, because. Yeah. And the other thing this bank did was that they their bonus culture, they paid a really good bank as bonus as most banks do in other companies, is that you got the bonus, but it you got awarded it, but you didn't get it for another three or four months afterwards. So therefore, you're always earning the next bonus before you got the last bonus. So you're always in arrears. So you always had three or four months that you left. If you leave, you lose, basically. That's really interesting. You've already started investing in the next year. You you you you put I'm not sure whether you lost the entire bonus for what you had, but there was this kind of like, well, I've already invested another four months before I had it. So I think it's like again, it sucks you in. Deliberate. Very deliberate. But I remember those days. You you mentioned that, you know, you started back in the ML network, Microsoft. And I I go back to, I suppose, my first IT job was 1984. IBM PCs, HP Vectras at the time, floppy disk, first Apple Mac, a little tiny portable Apple Mac thing. And I remember those days it was very you know, we talk about iOS versus Android today. This the battle of the platforms. In those days, we had IBM, the big, the big monoliths, in Microsoft, the up upstart coming in, then we had different versions of DOS. Then we had Windows, we had OS two, We had Novell network. And at least people became very you could see how people becoming really invested in their tech in their tech and their specialists. And and it I look back on that and think, when we talk about culture and inclusion and and diversity, or this sort of thing, people were very prisoners to their tech side, didn't they? And wherever GoFound come to our Nobel network died like everything else. Microsoft phone died. IBM changed its model completely. True. Completely. Exactly. Lots of services now, you know, James R. Elliott: and, in software, less hardware, lots of service. It's interesting to I think when things change, I because change is the only constant. And that's that's why I think we need to learn that that that perseverance, that resilience during, again, times of challenge change, adversity, because that's the only thing that we can really rely on these days is that there will be change. Is that things are gonna get shaken up? Is it tomorrow, with Trump tariffs? Is it two years from now with another war? Is it whatever it is economy up and down all around? But to your point, I think we need to also change people's thinking and get rid of the I can't or we that's gonna cost too much or that it'd be too hard or too long or too whatever or not enough whatever. Because then nothing changes and then inevitably like Kodak. Kodak invent they invented the digital camera but they buried it at a vault because they're like, well, no. This is gonna cannibalize all our film sales. This is a bad idea. So let's not do it. We'll hide it. And then now Kodak said a business. Blockbuster is the same. Now let's not do this online thing because then people are not gonna come out of our stores and buy our things. That's gonna wreck it. But inevitably now blockbusters out of bed and there's just millions of examples like that. The people that didn't adapt to change or nope we're not changing and they stand firm and because change is the only thing that's going to happen that you know is going to happen. And I think that there was zillions and again, perseverance. Okay. Well, that didn't work. Let's try that. This didn't work. Let's try that. And, and okay, this is happening. Let's try this. Yeah. That's why perseverance and inclusion can be such great and hot topics these days. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Because I when I was my own IT business, we're just at cusp from on premise servers to cloud, and we were a break fix sort of service provider where we we wanted things to break. We wanted hardware to go wrong. And then the world was moving very quickly into a cloud based five nines, reliable, doesn't go down. So trying to pivot the skill set and the business model to being a managed service all in. And inevitably, that's that's a kind of a cliff edge because you've got to invest for no return and hope to grow that element. And and your customers aren't always ready for it either, are they? Yep. Fair. Fair. And and take that risk like you said. James R. Elliott: You know, you live on that edge. And and I think fate favors the fearless. You you go all in intelligently, but you go all in. And and I think fate can favor you versus we're gonna wait, we're gonna hesitate, or we're gonna take this slow, we're not gonna do that, or burying our our head and things, I think can be a very, very dangerous thing, but for business, for success for growth, honestly, it's like, well, how can we be changing? If things are changing, the world is changing, how can we constantly be changing and evolving ourselves? Which is what I suppose led me to be where I am now. I'm constantly learning, constantly growing with courses, mentors, trainings, you name it. I think that is for me anyways, it's something that's been helped me become the man I am, the leader I am, but also as fulfilling it is and creating the success going back to our our title. It's creating that success, is by planning to change, planning for change and and having a almost a almost a change and growth roadmap for yourself and for your team. Otherwise, because you're literally falling down the mountain versus climbing up the mountain because someone's have a, someone's got a rocket pack and they're going to rocket up the mountain ahead of you, or whatever metaphor you want to use. I think it's a very important to have that, that authorized vision. And to be able to handle the bumps in the road too, because there will be some and, and they can be the greatest learnings and sometimes the brightest spots or highlight the bumps in the road. I find can highlight your brightest stars in the business, in the company too. Your brightest employees, the brightest spots, the best people because if they stick around and stand strong and say what can I do? How do you need me? And they they take responsibility for things. I think that can that can reveal some of your best people you wanna keep around forever. That's for sure. Yeah. In those times of stress and challenge, isn't it? That's Joanne Lockwood: where the, as you say, the the spotlight, the shine, it's people who can handle that adversity. It's growth mindset. It's solution mindset rather than rather than learned behaviors, rather than rigid structure. You tell me what to do. I need to be managed. I've got yeah. I give up. Yeah. Exactly. I don't know what to do. Yeah. Yeah. James R. Elliott: Right on. But business need a need a blend. I mean, going back to this Joanne Lockwood: diversity of of personality type, it's if if everybody was a a go getty idea person, you'd have you'd have to keep the show on the road stuff. We'd have no operations. We'd be changing everything every five seconds. And everyone's got a a better idea. Just trying to find that blend, isn't it? I think you're right. It is. And having supporting everyone's James R. Elliott: spark, I think. Because you're right. There's we need we need technical people, we need visionary people, we need people, people, relationship people, all these kind of things. Yeah. It's it's that making sure that that balance is there. Cause you want, you want more than one type of person in your, in your, on your team and people to compliment you as well, but also finding their spark, finding what lights them up, supporting that, cause then they'll stay, they'll do better. They'll be excited. You know, helping me, hey, maybe helping them find that spark because some people don't want it is or they don't wanna let it out for whatever reason and being seen or judged or heard or or hated on or whatever. I think people there's this internal conflict. People want to be seen and heard for their their authentic, you know, value and and who they are, but also then the the fears of what if what if I speak up and people don't like it or they they fire me or I they think I'm stupid or or whatever. Whatever it is, right, ruffle some feathers. And my biggest thing is be authentic. And if you're authentic and being real and and and as not permission to be an ass for, but it's it's, you know, being being raw and real and and and yes, sharing your opinions, share your thoughts whether you're not been or whether you're you're someone at a at a kind person, then that's not that's not the firm for you. Or if you're afraid that you're gonna get fired or think you get fired for being real and authentic. Well, it's often just a limiting bully for a fear, an unfounded fear. And again, like I said, if you do get laid off or fired, you're probably not happy there anyways. I can almost bet my reputation on the fact that you're not happy and fulfilled there anyways. If you can't be you and speak up or speak out and contribute, or they're not letting you shine your light sounds a little airy fairy, but they're not letting you, you show your bright spots and and really what lights you up, what you're passionate about, because that's gonna make you the most productive, you know, a leader, team member, mentor, friend, you name it. You talked by the beginning around, Joanne Lockwood: growing, making mistakes, failing quick, learning fast. And some of that goes back to what you talked about this fear is is this concept of psychological safety, isn't it? You know, making sure we can bring ourself into into into the workplace. We can learn and grow, and we can make mistakes because, as you said, how many children do you know that learned to walk without falling over, without bumping the head, without grazing their knee? Exactly. Exactly. Doesn't happen, does it? You have to if you if you get it right every time, you don't know what the magic sauce was to get it right. Exactly. It's only when you make a misstep that you you suddenly learn, course correct, learned. Don't do that again. It hurts if I do that. Well, and that's what you're James R. Elliott: right. That's what sometimes people with just pure natural talent, coincidentally, sometimes they're not very good teachers. Because they're like, well, you just do it do it less. Like, do it do it like I do. And you're like, what? Like, what are you talking about? So sometimes it's ironic that sometimes that that the true natural talent, if it was easy for them, it's not easy for most people. So they often don't make a great teacher. Now that's not that doesn't always hold hold fast and to hold through, but they're like, because they didn't know what it was like to fail and to fall and watch it for this or don't do that. And when you're driving your bike, heaven forbid, don't do that with just getting wheel because you're gonna fall versus someone that just jumped on a bike and naturally, well, this is pretty easy. You know, have they allowed really good balance and it was easy to them. You know, just get on and start riding. That's, that's all you do when you're falling over. You're like, I don't, I don't understand this. I don't get it. But, but no, you're coming back to your point. It is really interesting. I like to throw rocks at culture, a corporate culture that that makes it not okay to fail. Not okay to take risks, not okay to try, not okay to, you know, contribute and and say something that that people like, well, we don't we don't agree with that or we'll take that and pause that or no. Yes, no, maybe. I think, you know, that the corporate culture that punches failing and rewards the, the monotony robot like employee, which is not gonna give you the highest performance you want. And they're not gonna be happy either as humans are not robots. I think that that can be a very dangerous culture that that punishes or or just says failure is bad. Trying things is bad. Risk is bad. But it's not. It's it's how I mean, if the Wright brothers didn't risk falling, we would never have fly. They obviously crashed a lot of times. You Joanne Lockwood: just don't see the footage. Exactly. They sure did. In fact, I James R. Elliott: think I think it was Wilbur Wilbur Wright. About a year before they got the first flying airplane, he said, man, I will not fly for thousands of years because they were using traditional outdated thinking, science, models, research. And they said, let's throw all that out. And let's, let's do our own like research thinking, but let's, let's look at a fresh view of, of this flight thing at a f and then again, a year later, they had a flying airplane versus years of crashing and falling and not working because they were using someone else's limitations, limiting beliefs, models, fears, worries. This can happen. This can't happen. This is possible. This is not possible. All that stuff. It's amazing. The the how thing I mean, one of the one of the founders of IBM once said computers are just not that We may have a few of them in the world, maybe at libraries and universities, but peep no one needs a computer in their home. What what what are they gonna do with it? I have, like, literally on my desk, four of them right now. One, two, three, and then four. It's been exactly. Exactly. That's exactly. You have one on your arm. You have a computer. Yeah. It's a thing. My ears. These things have Joanne Lockwood: got sound processing up in my headphones. Exactly. It's it's it's James R. Elliott: just a thing in my phone. The Apollo spaceships probably in my ears. Correct. Exactly. Probably all the computing power in literally ease and beyond is probably in my phone right now. The eighties, every computer back to, I guess, what, fifties when Eniac and, the other one was invented probably sits in my phone, all the computing power in the world, the sixties, seventies, and eighties. So it's just it's just interesting. Yeah. That's some of this thinking, Joanne Lockwood: our massive hole in the concept of the meritocracy, this belief in the BS of meritocracy. Mhmm. I I can't remember what so I saw something on LinkedIn. It was an article. I I don't remember what which what what it was, but the concept was basically a grade students don't make the best leaders and entrepreneurs because the c grade students know what it's like to work hard and fail, work hard and fail. They know the crap, but a grade students tend to have an aptitude to get things right, and they focus on getting things right. Oh, and they get really frustrated when they get it wrong, but but they believe they're right. And the meritocracy is often geared up for the a graders, not the school of hard knocks and the triers. Yeah. I don't wanna quote the name, but Trump, he's messed up a lot in his life. He's made a lot of mistakes. I dare say Musk has as well. And these big people that you Agree. Credit. Let's talk about the meritocracy. The meritocracy comes from a life of hard knocks and the attrition, not just being snap snapshot, that veneer of being great. True. True. And James R. Elliott: there's the Dunning Kruger effect, which people that they think they're dash, if they think they're people that have some skill think they're actually better than they are. And I think to your point, that happens a lot with those, the, the A graders, if you will. In fact, we had to, had to let someone go. We onboarded someone recently, let her go in a few days, 131 IQ. Very nice person, but just, it didn't work without putting her down. It just it 130 cute, very smart person. But some, some of the basic stuff it's like, what it's and there's been many times, many of those people too. I've, I've been hired many bright people and it didn't work out because it just many reasons either. You're right. Dunning Kruger effect. I think they're better than what they are or just a no school hard knocks. No. Well, what do I do if this happens? What do you do if this breaks versus okay? Like, I can't do anything to last. James will. What would you do? What what might you do? What could you do right now instead of waiting till I'm gonna be able to ask me, okay, this broken, what do I do? So it is really interesting, Joanne, to to to to see those, like I said, and I hate how the current school system, and I have several problems with it. I think it creates robots and it makes peep designs people to be automatons in a, in a, in a, you know, industrial world, corporate world, I suppose. But not even, not even successful corporate people because the corporate world still use great thinkers, great innovators, people who go above and beyond and think outside the box versus just do what you're told. Now there's obviously some people in the, in the corporate world that do that, but there's a lot of people, you know, sit down, raise their hand, ask permission. If you want a water or one of the bathroom. Seriously, like, and just, and, and you're having little boys sit down and behave, shut up when I don't think little three, four, five year old boys should be made to sit down and shut up. That's not how they're designed. I mean, it's, it's, it's anyways, I've several problems with the school systems these days, but again, one of them is, is just that it doesn't really teach people to be, you know, outside the box thinkers that and go above and beyond and and just be super creative versus k. Two plus two is four. Great. On a test, let's write two. But versus versus how can you be creative? How can you solve problems and and look at things and think abstractly? I I, unfortunately, I have a I loathe some of the some of the current school systems and and how they teach because, just because of that and and what you just said. Yeah. We gotta meet people where they're at Joanne Lockwood: sometimes. In in today's world, we recognize people have different learning, different thinking styles, neurotypical neurodivergent thinking styles. And we go back to the school years when I was 19, where you were put in the class for, for people who were useless, for want of a better phrase of putting it. You were you were written off and you got nothing. You were allowed to, I don't know, play games and and draw with crayons. That was about that was about you a lot at school. And now we're recognizing that by by meeting people where they're at and their style, people can thrive and fly. Huge. Huge. Huge. I'm James R. Elliott: neurodiverse too on OCD and ADHD. And if I'm thank goodness I wasn't well, in a way, thank goodness I wasn't diagnosed until I was in my last year of university. Cause like, who knows what box I would have put in or what, what sped group I would have been put in or God knows what, how I would have been looked at. And because again, Pete, these notions would teach us, oh, he's this, he's that she's this, she's that, or not this, not that It made it hella hard for me to go through school and to get certain certain subjects. I got great marks in because the ADHD can help you hyperfocus and be just hyper super interested and excel in certain things that you love and your interest. And then, of course, you may get extremely hard. Math is one of mine to excel in something that you're you're you're no interest. You're boring and and and you become not good at it. Luckily, in our in our in most of our careers or our entrepreneur worlds, we can outsource and hire out and we do we don't do we don't love. We do what we love as entrepreneurs. So luckily, it's an amazing superpower. If there's any young people out there or even people in the corporate world that have whatever neurodivergent you are a OCD ADHD or whatever, whatever you are. You know, go find, go find somewhere where you want, where you love working and maybe go start your own business and doing things you love. If there's any kids listening, avoid worrying. You'll, you'll find your superpower and and go out and do that and avoid letting you know. And I'll tell you, you can't because blank. You can't because this. You can't because of that. I met a a gentleman, I guess, homeless ish person. And, and I said, well, you know, what are you doing? What do you how did you how did you become a homeless? He said, well, I was in the military, and he's like, so and but I hurt my leg. And he's like, so I can't work. And I'm like, there's like hours or half days. I don't get off my ass in a given day that I don't get off my butt. And and this, this, it was so interesting to me and bizarre, but interesting that his belief, I can't work because there's a million things he could do with, with having a bad leg. But again, just, just not, it just in his realm of, and his, of thinking outside the box and what he's been taught. It was, it was fascinating, fascinating to me. And my broke my heart too. Anyone who's at school Joanne Lockwood: today or in that sort of teenage college looking to think about their career, they could've start thinking ten years ahead because I think the the phrase is skate where the puck's going, not where the not where the puck is going. Winguretsky. Good Canadian. You wind the clock back, I don't know, let's say four four four or five years. AI. AI. When anyone said, hang on a minute. We wanna be investing in AI big time. Everybody needs to invest in AI big time. Don't know what you're talking about. AI reason is exactly It's science fiction. Don't need it. Like, try a good talk about the Terminator movie, you James R. Elliott: know? Exactly. You know, when I was at at leaving school, nobody wanted to Joanne Lockwood: be a social media expert in the nineteen eighties. Nobody wanted to be a LinkedIn trainer, social selling person, deliverer, food delivery person, or a just eat person. These technologies didn't exist. You don't have to aspire to what is the incumbent vogue, if you like. What's happening now? It's looking where that puck's going and thinking to yourself, I see here. Maybe I need to build a trajectory and get some skills, but you've gotta be agile. You've gotta keep looking at their eyes. Agreed. And and and well, James R. Elliott: let me wing Gretzky skate where the puck's going because you're right. What what what is a trend? What are emerging trends? What could I get into versus, you know, what is a what is a a business that may not be there? What is a job type in the future that may not be there in the future because of AI or automation or robots or or whatever? You know, I think, look at, okay, what what could I do? What would I love to do? What would light me up? Pretending that anything was possible because it is, but let you know, for people that maybe that's not quite the realm yet, pretending that ending is possible. What would you do? What could you do? What would you love to do? And either maybe find someone like that, find a bunch of people like that. I mean, that's what the creators of Google did. They like, let's, hey, let's build this thing together or go create it yourself, or find maybe find a company that that is doing that or or maybe getting into that, and you can help them develop it too. And and then my goodness, that would light me up as well. So I think would light people up too. Joanne Lockwood: Alright. Let's let's take a a year ago, would anybody have said that Google could be displaced as a search engine? Hit it on. How's that possible? You know? OpenAI come out and say, right, you can now use AI to to search. You don't need rankings and keywords. It it won't even return your website perplexity. It'll do all this research for you. Suddenly, search engines are becoming irrelevant because they're it's all proportionate to the effort you put into the search. Now you could just say, tell me how to make a cake. What sort of cake do you want? I want this sort of cake. Oh, this is how you do it. This is a recipe. Agree. Yeah. Exactly. And if you need new oven, buy this one. It's and it's yeah. It's I just think we're I know people are scared of this, but people are scared of the motor car. People are scared of steam engines. People were and it's how we tame it without without creating Skynet, I guess, is the key thing. Well, and and that's the other James R. Elliott: thing too. Exactly. But but without, you know, with the creating Skynet, but also without it's funny you say that. Without also thinking, I'm trying to remember remember a quote. I can't remember who it was, but they're like, these these these car things, this is just a fad. The the horse has always been there. The horse will the horse and carriage will always be there. It's the way we do it. These these cars are gonna be just a fad, and they're dangerous, and they're smelly, and they're smoggy. And, I mean, that's probably true. But but but but and then, you know, we we we our cars are dominant, transportation now. It's so interesting that the thinking that happens and the limited thinking, but but to your point exactly, I think you're absolutely right. And the Joanne Lockwood: first cars were were electric, weren't they? They weren't petrol or or steam operated. There was a a lot of electric ones. So, yeah, it it's we're coming around again. Someone had a vested interest in fossil fuels to obviously sell them to to make petrol. Sure. A lot of exactly. A lot of vested James R. Elliott: interest. Yes. So we we talk about the entrepreneurial spirit and the mindset. You Joanne Lockwood: know, we've introduced escape where the putts going, looking at opportunities, looking around in your business, not stagnating or become the blockbuster or no avail net way or something. As an entrepreneur, you have to, a, run your business, b, think of the future, lifelong learning, but you've gotta reserve some time for you, haven't you? How how do you stop yourself burning out? There's we've talked about balance and freedom here. Yeah. How to be balanced? It's it's hue and it's it's so important. I I burned up James R. Elliott: many times in my corporate career. I've seen people burn out, employees and leaders. I burnt out my entrepreneur business too. Because the and there's there's gotta be balance. And when there's not, people don't perform well. Burnt out people are not high performers. No wonder there's all so much absenteeism these days or depression or sick leave or or stress leave or whatever people leave for. I think here right people don't have boundaries with themselves and others to make sure. And I used to do this to my oh, no. Yeah. I can talk to you during my lunch hours. I'll just move this appointment book. I said, I'll just delete my lunch. That doesn't happen anymore. No. My my lunch is this time. My my my my free time flow time is no. No. You're not. Nope. Nope. Nope. I I mean, if something's an emergency or or high I'm sure I'll I'll shift that. But if it's a day that there's no other time to to take a break, you're not getting in my lunch hour. You're not getting in my nap time, you know? And and I think that's important as as as almost our our culture, which I also throw rocks at the culture in North America. Hopefully, definitely less in Europe and and South America. Maybe I'm not sure about The UK but our culture is the the whole work, work, work, work, work, work, work, and whoever works the most or the hardest wins which I think can actually lead to failure. It's whoever works the most effectively, the most efficiently, most creatively. And while they while they, you know, and inspire others, empower others, lead others to success, those that's who wins, not just work, work, work, work, work harder. That person in the earliest, the office and out the latest and not had little people bragging about how little sleep they have. How about we brag about success or how much you got done and how little time versus, and I did this too. I was there. Oh, I only slept, you know, five hours last night. Cause I w I worked like, you know, eighteen hours last night and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All that nonsense. No wonder there's so much burnout and depression and suicide too. And again, been there, been there, done that suicidal thoughts, depression, anxiety, all this stuff, which came from yes, intense, intense bullying, and being picked on physically and mentally for years, but also just killing myself, burning myself out, wanting to look good for others, wanting so hard for people to like me being so inauthentic. It just fries us. So just tying into the theme here of, of self care and, and burnout. Some of that is, is yes, you're meditating reflection. What's working in your life. What's not working. Because that'll make you reflect and, that'll make you excuse to help you grow when you reflect and there's action and reflection. There's progress. No reflection. No progress. You're just on that treadmill going, going, going, going without realizing why are the trees not moving? Oh, I'm in a freaking treadmill. Just running, running, running my hardest, but not going anywhere. That's why the trees aren't moving by. I think people need to really take, take stock about, you know, taking breaks and being okay, taking breaks, being okay, taking vacation. Not one of these people that, oh, I don't take any vacation or I don't take breaks. So I haven't taken vacation years. That's not helping you be a high performer. That is not helping you think creatively. Immediate Einstein, Henry Ford, Edison, all the greats have said, you know, even Oprah Winfrey even, Huffington, Martha Stewart even. I know she's a bit out of favor now, but they've all said that all, all the greats of the, of the years have all said that my greatest ahas and creativity and awareness moments and moments of generating ideas and solutions came when I was resting or doing something else or doing self care and doing something else, not when I was in the middle of the thing. So and I, I experienced that daily too, because I make darn sure this time for me to play, to meditate, how whatever your meditation is, going for a walk, it could be thinking, it could be not thinking whatever your practice is. Listen to music, just chilling, whatever it is, whatever it is, enjoying, I don't know, sitting, enjoying my thing often before I, I developed an allergy to chocolate with just sitting and just, you know, letting bites of chocolate dissolve in my mouth and just taking a few moments and just just like those Bueno commercials or Aero commercials or whatever it is. I think we need that time. Wait. I know we need that time. And I've seen myself and people that don't take some whatever the time is, maybe it's to go for a run. It's different for each. It's different for all of us. Don't have to go for a run. Maybe it's just going for a walk or sitting and doing nothing or dreaming or thinking or playing. Time to have fun to never. And that's a whole nother thing. But at least time that time to for for self care. Maybe it's a massage. Maybe it's whatever it is. As an entrepreneur, I don't have health benefits because I'm an entrepreneur, but I you're darn right. I pay for weekly massages. That's my that's one of my biggest self cares. And sometimes it's twice a week because that's my boy. Why does that ever charge me? Wow. Does it ever charge me? I think we need to have that whatever that is, whatever you do, and that's fine. If it's sitting and closing your eyes for half an hour or an hour or twenty minutes, I used to take nap. I go to a small, and at far edge of the floor, a breakout room and put my chair against the wall, and I just wouldn't nap. For fifteen, twenty, I come back. I know totally new man, totally new person. But, I think so many people are so worried about getting so much, getting enough done that no lunches, no breaks, and they actually don't realize that that causes them to work later and and to be less effective as they work later because there's after thirty five hours, there was a decline in performance after I think it's 45 or 46 or 50. I might be getting the studies wrong. It just, it it just nosedives, productivity. And then after I think it's fifty hours, you're getting less done. Actually, less done than you did if you worked less than fifty hours. So, anyways, end of rant. Self care people, please. It's mandatory, not optional. I I read another story somewhere. Again, I Joanne Lockwood: I'm gonna give my version in of interpretation of it is, you know, if you want if you want to create a process or change or get someone to investigate something, give it to a lazy person. Because a lazy person is more likely to find an optimal solution rather than someone who is trying to overthink and overcommit and create all these permutations. The lazy person will find the optimal least effort solution, which is sometimes what you want. Very true. Yeah. I I I've heard I've James R. Elliott: I've heard that. I've heard the other saying it's if you want something done quick, give it to a busy person because I'll just they'll be on it, get it done. And to your point, if you want something changed or a new way of going, yes, give it to a lazy person because well, horses weren't fast enough. What would be faster than horses? Oh, cars. Cars are faster. And then what would be faster than cars? Maybe we'll be, we'll be rocketing through tubes or something. You know, in the next five, ten, twenty, forty, eighty years, what is rocket so tubes back and forth? But, but yeah, exactly. Being lazy. How do we get there faster? How do you do this fast? How do we do this easier? Well, let's have a fridge that opens itself and like, I don't know, hands you up, soda or something or brings it to you in the, in the living room. I kinda heard when I was in my IT days, Joanne Lockwood: I kinda had this kind of mental subroutine that used to say to me, am I gonna do this more than once? Am I gonna do this many times? In which case, it's a subroutine. It's something that I need to create a boilerplate. I need to create a template. I need to be able to pick a package up and modify it, not do it not do it time and time and time again. And as coders, as programmers, you have snippets and code blocks you you you just paste in. Yeah. Yeah. I think people who haven't had a maybe that sort of upbringing don't understand that, yeah, the duplicate and and copy and and edit. Okay. Now now in today's technology, right click duplicate, right click copy is is de facto, but it wasn't in the old days. We have free free technology. It's James R. Elliott: totally true. And and I think too, especially for for entrepreneurs or or even people in in a corporate environment that that make a suggestion. Hey. I'm doing this multiple times a day. How do we automate this? How do we outsource this? How do we turn this into a process or a computer subroutine or AI ad or whatever? Because we're just doing the doing. And I think people does a limiting belief that it just takes you a few minutes. It's not a big deal, but you do a few minutes a thousand times. You get several thousand hours, which is several weeks worth of of lost productivity. I think I'm if I'm if I'm calculating a person, you know, it's so until whether it's entrepreneurs or leaders, look what your team is doing or look what you are doing over and over again. Even if it's doesn't take that long, anything you touch twice or do twice or thrice or, or a thousand times, yes, it'll take a little more time to, to automate or outsource or whatever change or whatever, get a system for that. But maybe it takes five, ten, 20 times the amount of time then to just do it yourself. But after that, the next million repetitions are gonna save you hundreds or maybe thousands of hours. So I like you said, Joanne, it's it's exactly the case. It's exactly. Yeah. Joanne Lockwood: Push the button. Push the button and watch it happen. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. James R. Elliott: Exactly. That's why there's AI watching that there's no even but it just happens. There's no even button put it. It happens eventually. You're right. And we're we're we're there Joanne Lockwood: now. Extension. A Chrome extension will do that for you. Yeah. Exactly. Out there. Yep. James R. Elliott: It's cheap or free and easy. And I think to give people more interesting, more creative tasks as well as a, as a way to, to grow people, give them more time to play. I mean, some of the best companies in the world give their employees an hour an hour a day or a few hours a week to, to play and, and make things and break things versus now you gotta be pushing buttons all day long. And I think that that's a mistake. That's a big mistake, I think, to do. I think I think the other side of that is Joanne Lockwood: is there's also a personal fulfillment in creativity. Yeah. That kind of thing you're talking about there is the equivalent of a a blank sheet of paper and a crayon for a five year old. Draw me a picture. Just scribbles, whatever it may be. Your brain needs to go into scribble mode, doesn't it? And just play with stuff. And that I think that's what we need to recognize for ourselves as entrepreneurs. We need to scribble. My my problem is, yeah, probably a bit like your brain, is I I've constantly got these shiny things coming towards me. I wanna play with that. I wanna play with that. I wanna do some e learning. I wanna develop my book. I wanna write this and I wanna do that. I bought myself a I've got myself a drone for my sixtieth birthday last last month. I've got this drone in the box. I think I need to go out and fly that. Oh, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna do that. So I've got all these shiny objects around me, and it's trying to find the the one that I can get to today. Fair. Fair. Yeah. I'm always always learning, always trying to develop these skills. Look at my YouTube, I I'll spend fifty hours on YouTube on a topic, and I'll suck it to death. I'll absorb it all. It's a bit like, is it what's that what's that spoof sci fi film where the the the the brain monster sucks your brains out, doesn't it? The, was it space thing? I know it's strange. Cowboys, was it, or something like that? Space cowboys. You're right. Brain monster that But it is brain monster. Brain monster. Brain. But, like, I'm I'm doing that. I'm sucking all this knowledge out of YouTube. And then another shiny thing would go on. I'm gonna spend another fifty hours sucking the information out of there. It's I mean, maybe it's more like the matrix where you're plugging the Apache helicopter module into your neck and downloading the pilot mode. Pilot. Your helicopter pilot. And it's James R. Elliott: interesting too because all this goes back to to to, I guess, our theme of of of perseverance, of resilience, of of growth, of success as well. Because I think when we're learning and everyone is gonna say, I don't have time, no time to read a book, don't have time to learn. And I think gently I would invite people to call themselves on that and call themselves out because if you're on this thing all day or if you're scrolling at night for desk scrolling or if you're watching, I don't watch TV, but if you're if you're watching any amount of TV a a day, not to not to say don't play. Definitely have time, have play of fun, whatever your thing is, but at least, you know, maybe take half an hour, forty minutes a day, less TV or less doom scrolling or whatever and invest whether it's YouTube, whether it's books, whether it's whatever invest. Now, YouTube, you can go down rabbit holes. That's why some of these books are great and books will help you sleep more than doom scrolling on YouTube at 1AM. But fine, even it even twenty, ten minutes a day to read twenty minutes, whatever you want, forty, whatever you want, an hour, five minutes, even turn a few pages because in a year you're going to have one or three books done versus none. So I think that that that all this we're talking about ties back in a theme of perseverance and resilience, and growth and success. Because I think when if people are growing ahead of you or when not if, but when people are growing ahead of you and to your point that that getting and getting that job, getting that C suite, getting promoted, or if it's an entrepreneur, you know, getting the new customers or being seen as different and unique, and why people buy people should buy you versus people buying someone else. That education, that research, nevermind just telling you people, Hey, you know, I read, you know, I read 10 books a week type thing. It sounds pretty great. Or one book who I read one book a week or whatever it is. It, it, you know, I'm always learning whatever you, however you, you explain it to people. That, that sounds great too. They I want to learn from someone who is always learning. I don't want to learn from someone who never learns and never picks up a book or research as a topic or a new topic or never plays, that's not a that's someone I wanna learn from. I think that contributes to our success too based on by going back to our theme. Yeah. I one of the things Joanne Lockwood: that you I think you you said it's part of your what you do and the word freedom was in there. Yes. And I often reflect on that word. What does freedom mean to me? It means freedom of choice, freedom of this, freedom of that. It means I'm not dependent on some someone else, something else. Sustainable business, sustainable income, sustainable food source, heating, lighting, housing. So we take freedom for granted because when we get ill or sick or poorly, we start to lose our agency, don't we? Because then we're now what we thought was freedom was just short lived. And one thing I realized five years ago probably, that I was approaching my sixtieth and I thought, hang on a minute. I wanna be able to keep going until I'm 75 Heck yeah. Really. I can't wait until I'm 70 to make that choice. So I realized I was investing in my business, marketing, branding, consulting, computing, all this kind of stuff. But I wasn't investing in me and I was the core cog in my business. So for me, when I said about freedom, I need to make sure that my health and well-being and fitness is part of that freedom model and not just money. It's also the ability to enjoy that money. It's what and exactly. And I mean, James R. Elliott: look so many, as you know, so many people are tired, you'll say, our parents have save your money for retirement, getting a good stable job, save your money for retirement. And in retirement, most people can't do anything depending on how old you retire. Right. Or what you do or how how well or not you do, especially if you haven't taken care of yourself. You she can't, you know, hike mountains and travel the world if you haven't taken care of yourself in your retirement. But yeah, it's your point. And I've been there. I've I still got the stretch marks right here from when I was when I was clinically obese and and, you know, chronic suffering from chronic fatigue and just exhaustion and burnout and not being able to lose weight and all these things, brain fog, you know, just cause it fatigue, cloudy, blinking. And then now to living how I am now. Yes. I love food. Yes. I have treats as well. But it's just that being healthy, exercising, living healthy. However, that looks to someone. You don't have to go to the gym if you don't want to, you don't have to do whatever. But I think that it's important to find whether it's soccer or whether it's jumping a medallion or skipping or martial arts or gym or running or walking. Walking is one of the best forms of exercise actually burns a higher percentage of fat. It just takes a little longer. So if you want to walk and walk for an hour, hour and twenty, not that a half hour walk is not great for you, but in terms of walk for an hour or run for twenty five, twenty, twenty five minutes, it's it's it's a choice. But again, whatever people do, I think is is fine. They don't have to do, you know, join a circuit training or a dance class or whatever the the exercise and just and eat better. I've learned that eating and and diet is is a huge, huge thing, even to the point of where certain foods still will make me exhausted, will make me depressed, anxious foods and will affect our mental health. Huge. You know, when I eat properly, I eat well. Again, I snack and treat once in a while. Of course, you know, I enjoy life like maybe 90% healthy, 10%, you know, snacks. Even this day, I find my productivity will nose dive my mood, my energy, my, my, my brain clutter will nose dive when I'm having junk as well. And, people it's it's, it's not just me. It happens to everyone. It's just sometimes people are so stuck in that. I'll call it a rut of unhealthy eating. They don't realize what they could be, how productive they got, how much better their brain can work, how much more successful they could be, how much more money they can make with that health, Joanne. And and and like you said, being able to enjoy your money later and let alone dying young. I mean, the statistic has changed a bit during the, you know, the the the, you know, '56, '40, '50, '60, '70. On average, people died eight to twelve months after they retired. That's horrible. Yeah. Horrible. Working your way and then but kinda that's it. And that's what screwed up the social security in most countries is because that Joanne Lockwood: was the case. Now people live twenty years after they retire, and the pensions and the investments were never geared up for that longevity. And, people need to retire later. I'm just not I'm agree. I'm not sure I'm ready to retire yet. I I quite enjoy what I'm doing. If someone said, we I'm on my last five years, I think. I've got so much left to give. I've I've started another lease of life, another another another another crazy idea I wanna get on this. James R. Elliott: Which is beautiful which is beautiful, Joanne. I mean, peep people is people only retire from what they don't love and don't like doing anymore. And so if you don't like it, do something else versus I mean, no wonder people either die young or, or would they retire or get depressed or anxious or suicidal? I would do if I just sat and watch TV all day or drank or ate or smoke all day long. If I had nothing else, no other purpose I would do. I would get depressed too. I would probably sit and eat, eat, eat myself to, to death or eat my emotions because, wow, I I couldn't sit and watch TV all day. I mean, sure, it sounds fun for a few days. We've been in a few days, do nothing, but sure, why not? But I think that gets very boring, very old after a while. Yeah. You know? But like you said I don't know if it's just me. I mean, I Joanne Lockwood: often you know, you know, in those moments of quiet, we think, oh, what if I won the lottery and tens of millions suddenly appeared in my bank account? Would I give up work? I think, well, I may stop what I do in the way I do it, but then suddenly all these business ideas go, oh, I'd love to set this up and I'd love to create that. And I've always wanted to have a a YouTube studio that I could hire out to people and I could really kit it out and think. So I said, well, there's capital. I could do this. I could get investment. Now I know I could, but I'm just thinking, what would I do with all that money? How I would invest it? I've got so I've got all these crazy ideas, entrepreneurial ideas. I love it. I'd have to try. Yeah. I think if you just say, oh, I'd love to put in a million pounds so I can do nothing. Well, okay. So what does nothing mean? Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna get very bored sitting by the pool. You you ain't gonna go and buy gym gym equipment. You're gonna hire a personal trainer. You're gonna start working out about whether you're gonna go for holidays or runs. And even then, you gotta run out of stuff to do nothing, aren't you? I agree. You know, if I won the James R. Elliott: lottery somehow, you know, someone's like, here's, you know, several million dollars for fun. Like, here, I feel like giving you several million dollars today, James. I mean, you're right. Sometimes the way I would do it would change a bit. I would I would hire even more people. I would I would shift how I did it, but I would still always help people. Definitely, I would always help people, hiring all kinds of people instantly instantly to do all the grind. And and I have a team and just hiring a bigger team instantly to do all the grind work. And all I do is teach and speak all day long. And and that would be amazing, amazing, amazing. And and be at your point. I wouldn't I wouldn't stop. You sure maybe take a few weeks or a month or three to sit on a beach, but, no. After that, I wanna start you guys take the money, invest in different businesses, ventures, and all these cool things that in helping environment. All these cool things I'd love to do. I would do that. I'd probably start an environmental company if I won a huge significant amount of money. It's some kind of company to help the environment, some kind of company to help people. Wouldn't just sit and do nothing for the rest of my life. Like 44. Yeah. And and and, you know, getting a little older, but I'm I'm sure I'm I've got at least a hundred in me, if not a 20. And I wow. You know, that's like fifty five, sixty five, seventy five years doing doing nothing. It sounds like it sucks. Like I'm gonna just have adventures with people and learn and teach people and maybe continue what I doing. I was supposed to say I would teach people that's interesting. I say, teach people how to work remotely, how to travel while working and making a difference. Like, oh, wait, that's what I already, that's what I do. That's the way I teach people how to have more time, more fun, more fulfillment, more productivity while also working less and getting more done. So I'm like, wait, that's what I do. So I would continue doing that. It's interesting. So you're Joanne Lockwood: 44. For me, that is equivalent of twenty ten now. So sixteen years ago, give or take. Facebook wasn't a thing. AI wasn't a thing. The iPhone really wasn't much of a thing. Everything I have to have that I value I care about literally, everything that's important to me, my business, what I do, has come out of that that time between your age and my age. So when I was 44, who where I am today was not even on anyone's radar. So just think about where you know, if you can reflect on this conversation in sixteen years' time, if you just podcast your way way back to 2025, I think. 2050, we've got all this shit going on now. Twenty twenty forty. Yeah. I never envisaged that. So that's the potential that each one of us has in ten or fifteen years worth of of thinking, isn't it? It is. It's and and, like, really, my job didn't really James R. Elliott: exist. So I'm sure there was public speakers four years ago too, but a lot of what I do didn't exist or the problems I help people solve, you know, massive perseverance, and helping your teams, you know, persevere and and and be happy and stay engaged and motivate them to be engaged even more. That wasn't a problem years ago. And all the stuff that's causing them disengagement to your point wasn't really a problem when I was when I was younger, even fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, all this stuff do with scrolling and Facebook and pings and dings and distractions. It wasn't there years ago. So it's fascinating the the solutions we come up with to new and modern problems. If we just think outside the box and instead of thinking, oh, I can't or I can't do this because, or I'm not able to, or I can't do it now because whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're a business leader or someone in in a business looking to grow into a leader, I invite you to be very, very careful with with what you say and and with what thoughts you allow to run your mind. You can't because I can't because I mean, half our thoughts are not even ours. Half of the thoughts are put there by the parents, culture, media, religion, society, grandparents, teachers, you know, exactly. You name it. Exactly. Exactly. It's all that when we were when we were young, especially, it just goes in and sticks and this is good or this is bad or that's not possible or a good boy does this or a bad girl or a good Jewish boy or a great Christian girl does this or doesn't do this or that or this is not possible or you don't do that. Or what would people say? You can't do that. Or you can't say that you can't be that. What would people say? What would people think? You, you may have faced that as well, you know, yourself as well. What would people think? What would people say? Frickin cares. Do you want to be happy or depressed and suicidal and miserable? I was there. Right. You want to be happy and healthy and wealthy and fulfilled? Or do you want to be right? No, I can't because blank my kids and my family and my age, I'm too old or too young or too this or not enough this or. And it's amazing. It breaks my heart. That's a lot of the work we do, the limiting beliefs and fears looking at that as well. And people, why people don't do anything, even though they, they want it so bad, they can taste it. But looking at why people don't do things. And again, there's no judgment. I've been there many times. I've, I've overanalyzed and fenced sad and procrastinated many times. And got out of that, got past that and realized that sometimes when I, when I jump and leap, you know, sometimes dare I say leap without thinking or leap with leap following my heart and my gut, not just, okay, going to jump off. Hopefully this water is deep enough. Let me just jump head first. It's nothing like that, but it's like, okay, you know, my heart, my intuition telling me I need to do something leaping, if you will. And then doing it. I mean, even sir, Richard Branson says, let's jump off the cliff and build the build the plane on the way down. And I I love that, you know, take action mentality. Let's do it. Yeah. I've got a saying which is, Joanne Lockwood: no great adventure ever starts with no. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Let's be James R. Elliott: conservative or let's stay home today. My friends used to Joanne Lockwood: used to complain that whenever they said they gave me two choices, I'd always say, let's do both. What what's up? Let's do both. And they go, make a decision. That's an interesting thing too. I I love to touch on that too, because James R. Elliott: you're right. Most people, they say, well, you know, I can do this or I can do that. I can have I work for a business or or I have my own company. Why not both? You can do both. I've done both. I teach people that have done both. I've led people that have done. It's so interesting that so many people are there. They're thinking, or I can do this or this. I can be married or have a business, or I can dedicate time to grow my business, or I can have a relationship. Why can't you have both? It is possible. There's many, many people that do it. You can be a great entrepreneur and have great health, or you can be a mother and father and take care of yourself or, or whatever. Like you, like you're saying, it's it's, we gotta start being inclusive if you will, with our, and we can have this and this. Yes, we can do this and we can do this versus well, we can do either or I, I, I love the phrase, how can we, how can I, how can we not? I can't, or I can only do this or I can only do this if, or I can only do one. How can I? How can I? There's a will. There's a way. So I I I love this beautiful you touched upon because people think, well, I can do this or this. Why not both? I love that you said that, Joanne. Why not both? And we should have Joanne Lockwood: called the episode. Why not both? Why not both? Exactly. Why not both? James, it's been absolutely fascinating. I I mean, I mean, we chat for about half hour before we went live, but I could carry on chatting for another few hours. James R. Elliott: Quite. This has been fun. Thank you. Yeah. We have to Joanne Lockwood: draw things to close. So how do people get a hold of you? James R. Elliott, how do we get a hold of you? Great question, my friend. Great question. James R. Elliott: Like you said, LinkedIn, Facebook, James r Elliott with one t is a great way to find me as well. You can also for entrepreneurs, you can visit, limitless-entrepreneur.com. And for the more corporate folks looking at more corporate speaking, corporate solutions, that one is probably best to look at the unleashyourpower.com website. But honestly, feel free if it's easier LinkedIn or Facebook, feel free to reach out James R Elliot, E L L I O T. You will, you'll be able to reach me as well. You know, come hang out. Let's have a conversation. Love talking, love brainstorming, love sharing solutions, and, really helping, you know, businesses, small and large, find ways to persevere and and help their teams persevere during the the craziness that goes on, whether it's amazing quick growth because that can be just as troubling sometimes as as, you know, you know, downfalls of companies or or or big changes, changes to the market, change the economy, the environment, tariffs, whatever it is, you know, massive growth or massive, you know, decline times of challenge and change. Love, love, love being able to empower leaders to empower and empowering the teams to to do that. So, love to chat, love to hang out, brainstorm. Thanks for having me on today, Joanne. Appreciate it. I had a lot of fun. Well, if you're listening now, track Joanne Lockwood: James down, drop him a DM, drop him a message saying you heard it here. And while you're at it, leave us a review. Give us a like, a thumbs up, a follow, all the usual things you do on these things. Love to hear more from you. James, thank you. A pleasure. As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites and become part of our ever growing community, driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family, and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, stories, or a vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk, And let's make your voice heard. Until next time. This is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire, and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world, one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.