--- title: "Resilience Diversity And Wellbeing" episode: 135 date: 2024-11-21 guest: "Sam Rathling" canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/135-resilience-diversity-and-wellbeing audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-135/audio.mp3 --- # Resilience Diversity And Wellbeing Joanne Lockwood speaks with LinkedIn and social selling expert Sam Rathling about what resilience looks like when life becomes dominated by hospital appointments, uncertainty, and recovery. Sam shares her breast cancer diagnosis and treatment journey, including the emotional impact, the physical toll of chemotherapy, and the lesser-discussed challenge of what happens when treatment milestones are reached but psychological support still feels limited. Alongside cancer, Sam discusses her decision to become sober and how sobriety changed her ability to cope with adversity, parent through crisis, and stay grounded through treatment. The conversation also touches on family life as a single parent of three neurodivergent children, and the importance of connection and practical support during prolonged periods of stress. The episode closes with a candid look at authenticity in public life: why Sam chose to share parts of her experience on social media, how vulnerability can build genuine community, and what workplaces and colleagues often get wrong when someone returns after serious illness. Listeners are left with clear encouragement around early detection and a thoughtful challenge to show up as a whole human being, not just a professional mask. ## Chapters - 00:00 — Introduction and Welcome - 02:00 — Experienced and resilient through cancer and challenges. - 06:36 — Challenges faced returning to work post-cancer. - 09:50 — Friend passed away from cancer, difficult situation. - 12:24 — Single mum concerned about kids after mortality. - 15:32 — Kids supported me through "Larry" tumour journey. - 20:08 — Sobriety improved relationship with caring, mature son. - 20:49 — He's matured significantly despite numerous challenges faced. - 24:42 — Derby chemo ward treats 2,800 monthly patients. - 27:31 — Smear test delay led to large tumour. - 30:50 — Child allowed friends; house trashed, no resolution. - 35:58 — Stopped drinking, felt better, diagnosed with cancer. - 40:15 — Raising awareness about personal and professional challenges. - 43:34 — Champion passions outside work in social selling. - 45:57 — LinkedIn expert shares brand inspirationally without backlash. - 49:11 — Authenticity attracts the right people, repels others. - 52:33 — Fantastic, inspirational conversation with a great storyteller. - 55:04 — Shifting priorities, focusing on family and health. ## Key takeaways - How maintaining sobriety can significantly aid in coping with severe health challenges, like cancer treatment. - The importance of sharing authentic experiences online to build a meaningful personal brand. - Leveraging vulnerability to create genuine connections that resonate with the right audience. - The necessity of regular self-checks and early intervention for breast cancer detection. - Strategies for dealing with online interaction challenges, including handling conservative responses to sharing personal stories. - The emotional and practical aspects of navigating a cancer journey, from discovery to treatment and recovery phases. - Practical advice on teaching children to embrace authenticity and resilience, despite life's hardships. ## FAQs ### What inspired Sam Rathling to discuss her cancer journey on the podcast? Sam Rathling shared her cancer journey to highlight the importance of resilience through adversity and to inspire others going through similar experiences. She also emphasised the significance of early detection and maintaining sobriety for better coping during treatment. ### How did Sam Rathling cope with her cancer treatment without alcohol? Sam Rathling found that remaining sober, which she decided to do after a pivotal personal incident, allowed her to manage her cancer treatment both emotionally and physically more effectively. This is in contrast to others she knew who relied on alcohol to cope. ### Why does Sam Rathling believe in sharing personal stories on social media? Sam advocates for using vulnerability and authenticity as key elements in building a personal brand. By sharing genuine experiences, one can create meaningful connections and resonate with the right audience. Her own stories, including her son's experiences with bullying and neurodivergence, have had a significant positive impact. ### What is the importance of being 'human' on social media according to Sam Rathling? Being 'human' on social media involves showcasing values and passions that go beyond professional roles. Sam stresses that this human touch fosters real connections and helps individuals to engage authentically with their audience. ### How does Sam Rathling approach online trolling? Sam has not experienced online trolling, which she attributes to her storytelling approach. She believes in providing valuable and engaging content that inspires rather than seeking attention, which helps maintain a positive online presence. ### What advice does Joanne Lockwood give about handling interactions with people going through serious illnesses? Joanne Lockwood suggests that it's better to acknowledge uncertainty in what to say rather than avoid engagement altogether. Directly asking the individual how they would prefer to be interacted with can help in maintaining supportive communication. ## Transcript Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyone not only belongs but thrives? You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo, and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwood@cchangehappen.co.uk to share your insights or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 135 with the title, resilience, diversity, and well-being. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Sam Rathling. Sam is a LinkedIn and social selling expert, a cancer survivor, and a thriver. When I asked Sam to describe her superpower, she said, I'm also known as resilient rathoming. I've been through so much adversity, and resilience is definitely a superpower. Hello, Sam. Welcome to the show. Hi, Jo. Thanks so much for Sam Rathling: having me. It's great to be here. Absolute pleasure. I'm really Joanne Lockwood: excited to, have this conversation. We met probably 4, 5, 6 years ago, first time at a Professional Speaking Association conference, I think. We did indeed, yes. I remember it Sam Rathling: before. So Sam, tell me a bit more Joanne Lockwood: about your resilience, the diversity and the well-being. Gosh. Where do I start? I think we have a lot to cover Sam Rathling: on our conversation today. But, I think a little bit about me in terms of my background, I've been through quite a lot of different challenges, both business and personally, in the last number of years. So I'm a single mom to 3 children. I have an 11 year old, a 15 year old, and a 17 year old. All of them have some form of neurodivergence, so I'm quite a champion of that side of things. My son, Oscar, has ADHD, Asperger's, and ODD. My middle child, Maya, has dyslexia, and my youngest child, Liliana, has just been diagnosed with ADHD. So I have quite a lot of experience working with neurodivergence, particularly within children. I'm literally 1 year on from finding out actually this week was the was the week that I went to the GP having found a lump in my left breast. And this week that we're recording this episode is the year anniversary of me going to the doctors and then obviously getting diagnosed with breast cancer. So I am now through my chemotherapy, radiotherapy, and surgery. I'm I'm on the other side of now my next 5 years of treatment, so obviously that's been a challenge over the last 12 months to deal with. And, yeah, quite a lot of different things in business, you know, few financial issues around businesses, hostile takeovers, you know, just various different things that I've gone through over the years. So I definitely call myself resilient raffling for quite a few reasons. Joanne Lockwood: But just for anyone listening, we're we're recording this mid October 2024. Yeah. So I think I remember seeing on Facebook that you were ringing the bell after your last chemo session a few weeks ago. Is that right? No. It was, end of June 30th Sam Rathling: June I rang the bell because the very next day I did the race for life. I didn't actually run. I walked very slowly. It was like the last one round in about 1500, but I still did it. So yeah. So that was a moment, though, ringing the bell after all that brutality and what my body had been through. And, I think a lot of people think, though, that the bell ringing is kind of the end, but it's really not the end at all for most people. It's it's a milestone definitely, but there's a lot of emotional and psychological trauma that comes with a cancer diagnosis and a cancer journey. So I've still got another 5 years of medication and treatment and I'm on some quite brutal medication at the moment, which does still mean I'm immunosuppressed and I have to treat it like I'm still in chemo. But the drugs are amazing now and I'm still here and I'm very grateful that I am still here to share my story and raise awareness and particularly given that it's October and it's breast cancer awareness month, So that's another poignant thing. So, yeah, been a lot. Been through quite a lot over especially over the last 5 years, I'd say. They've probably been my hardest 5 years if I look back on my life. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Yeah. When you go through something like this, there's a a propensity, if you like, to say wow, you're brave, you've all this. And I've been through phases in my life where people have said use the brave word to me. And it's a well meaning because it's coming from a point a position of wanting to say the right thing, wanting to show some empathy, wanting to show some compassion. But when people use it to you, it's kind of like, I'm not brave. I'm just doing what I had to do. Yeah. Bravery is looking back over your shoulder going, wow. That was a journey. You're not brave at the time, are you? No. I think I think you are strong Sam Rathling: because you have no option to be strong because you literally are just going through the motions. So you have to trust the process and, like, for the whole time that from diagnosis to, you know, going through everything when you're literally your whole life is determined by hospital appointments and waiting rooms and everything gets put on hold. You're just literally it's almost like being on a roller coaster that you didn't ask to get on and you cannot get off from. And you come off of it again and then you're just literally thrown into the ether because there is literally no support beyond, like, the physical treatment. Like, the the the job of the doctors and the nurses and the chemo ward is to get you through that. But once you're through it, it's like you're you're kind of the appointments stop and the you feel like you're in a safe zone the whole time that you're going through treatment and you've got lots of appointments because that's what's controlling your life, and then suddenly all of that stops. And it's like, okay. What's next? Because now I'm in this I'm still being treated, but you're not in that you're not on the roller coaster anymore. You're you're kinda off the roller coaster, but it's like, okay. What do I do next? And speaking to lots of people that are going through the same journey as me through online groups and physical groups that I go to for support, I find that there's a lot of challenges around people returning to the workforce, like, who have been through a cancer diagnosis. And I run my own business, so I've worked all the way through. But a lot of the people I speak to who have been through that journey and then are either returning part time or full time to the workplace are finding navigating that particularly challenging, not because of them, but because of the people around them. And their colleagues just don't know how to handle the conversation, and they don't know how to integrate with that person and speak to that person because of what they've been through. And I I think that's a big area that companies need to face up to given that there are so many people being affected by cancer right now. I think it's a big area that needs to be addressed because if, you know, if I was working for a large organization, I had to transition back in. I mean, my my own friends don't even know what to say to me. Some of them have disappeared off the face of the planet. That's just what happens. But then coming back into the workplace or coming back in to deal with relationships that you've had before you were diagnosed, I think that's a big area for organisations to be aware of. Yeah. Joanne Lockwood: I probably get that, that awkwardness people must feel around you. I guess I'm privileged because I'm the podcast host here. I feel I have a right to just ask questions. And ask questions. Many people many people in in in your personal life are walking on eggshells. Do I sit a vine thing? Do I sit, what have I what have I? I don't know how to talk about it. Do I do I draw attention to the cancer? Do I talk, the brave comment? Or what do I people walk away because it it's scared of getting it wrong, aren't they? Yeah. They Sam Rathling: they, a lot of the time, just don't know what to say, so they prefer not to say anything at all. Whereas I'd rather someone just say to me, like, I literally don't know what to say to you and just start the conversation that way. I get quite a lot of messages. Obviously, I'm on LinkedIn a lot, so I get a lot of messages. People just going, look, I'm following your story, but I just don't know what to say to you. And I'm like, that's okay. Not many people do know what to say. But at least you've said something versus, you know, completely dismissing you or ignoring you or, you know, only checking in because, you know, I have that versus, you know, you never check-in on me before. So it's it's interesting the different dynamics that happen around you in terms of you know, I have best friends that have literally vanished. You know? They don't know how to handle it. And I think part of it is people not wanting to face up to their own mortality, and they just don't know how to handle it. So instead of being there and stepping up, they step away, and then they disappear. It's like, where did you go? Joanne Lockwood: Trying to give you space to recover, but not sure how to get themselves back in again, I guess. Yeah. And I and I have reached out. Sam Rathling: I've extended an olive branch to a couple of them who I know, you know, like, they have life going on as well. I get all of that. But you think it doesn't really take much just to drop a text to go, how you doing? But I'd rather that than radio silence, you know. It's interesting. A friend of mine, had, Joanne Lockwood: he passed he passed away, unfortunately, a couple of years ago. He had intestinal cancer, 2 tumours. And I went to visit him in the hospital in probably the last 3 or 4 months of his life. And I tried to be as upbeat as possible, but I also realised that you want to try and find a balance in line between being laughing and joking. Not too sombre, not too sad, but also respect the fact he was very exhausted. He didn't have the strength to engage in a huge conversation. And it was, I wouldn't say I felt awkward, but I felt it was a really strange situation to be in. And my mother-in-law has been through palliative care, eventually passing away. My father's in nursing home at the moment, going through sort of some tricky times. And it's somehow really difficult to try and find those relatable conversational experiences to talk about though. Yeah, you're worried about your life, and I'm worried about it's it's the fact it's raining outside. It's a different different sort of priorities, isn't it? It is. I think I think the best Sam Rathling: way to handle those is just to ask the person. Everyone's different. And just to say, look, you know, how do you want me to show up today? Because I can be happy. I can be I can tell you jokes. I can make you laugh. I can just be here and not say anything. Like, how do you want me to show up for you today? And I think just asking the person because they will be they will have good days, bad days, ugly days. They'll have days when they just wanna sit and they just want some company. They'll have days when they wanna ignore the whole world. So I think it's just about asking that question and just being really open and having that chat with them to see how they want that's how I would handle it. Not having been on the other side of it. I would want someone to say, you know, how are you really today and how do you want me to show up for you today? And then you it's less less uncomfortable. Yeah. No, Joanne Lockwood: I get that completely. Yeah. When you were going through some of this, you must have had obviously, your own mortality came into the front of your mind, you suddenly realised that I'm not forever, I'm a bit broken, and I may not be getting fixed. What were the biggest fears going through your head at that stage? Are presumably your 3 children, your business, your family? Yeah. It was Sam Rathling: hard. I actually wrote myself a letter. I'm gonna get a bit emotional. I wrote myself a letter after I'd been to the doctors, and I'd been to I'd found the lump, and I I didn't know what it was at that stage. So I didn't know what stage it was, how aggressive it was. Was I riddled with it? Like all these things, like when you're in this limbo period, when you are in the unknown, your brain just goes into this overthinking the world's gonna end literally, your life is gonna end and you might only have weeks left. But I didn't know that at that point. So of course, as a single mom, like, that for me my biggest concern immediately around my mortality was, like, what what are the what's gonna happen to the kids, you know? So I wrote myself a letter and it I read it back the other day actually, And it's about 5 pages long, and it's all about that. It's all about the fear of the unknown, and I don't know what's gonna happen and all those kinds of things. And I I guess we all know at some stage we are going we're not gonna be here forever. Right? But it really does bring it to the forefront. I mean, my family are all over the world, so dealing with this with my mum and dad in Portugal and my sisters in Australia and New Zealand, like, I literally have no family around me, physically around me. They have been in a couple of times over the last year, but I've generally kind of pretty much done it mostly on my own with 1 or 2 really awesome friends and my kids. But the biggest thing for me was really the children and just having everything in place for them and it really did kick me into gear in terms of making sure that I had had and have everything in place for them because, yeah, you literally are staring your own mortality right in the face. That period of time when you don't know what you're dealing with, all those times when you're in that limbo period, they're the hardest because you you just don't have a plan. You don't know what's gonna happen next. As soon as I found out what was happening and I had my plan and I'd met with my oncologist and I was like, right. Okay. It's gonna be this and this and this and I'm gonna be okay, hopefully. It was easier. But there was a couple of weeks in that early literally a year ago, right in this week, actually, a year ago today, was that. That was all going through my head. So it's very hard. Did you Joanne Lockwood: give your, tumour a name? Yeah. Larry the lump. Larry the lump. Oh, I love it. Is that is that part of the process where you're encouraged to name it, to to see you're devil or you're a beast, is it? I don't think you were encouraged necessarily. There's very little, like, they Sam Rathling: just give you leaflets. They're like, you have breast cancer. Like, here's some leaflets. Go and read them. It's literally like there's no mental, psychological support unless you go looking for it. There are charities out there that provide it, obviously. I mean, there's some amazing ones out there. But I needed to humanize it and make it because I I told my older kids first when I was being tested because I when I didn't know what it was, I said, look. This is happening for me. I need you to kind of be a bit, you know, flexible with me. I mean, I might not be myself right now, but I didn't tell my little my little girl. She's 11, but she's got ADHD, and she's quite challenged. She like, I'm her world. She doesn't have any contact with her dad whatsoever. So I didn't want to speak to her about it until I knew for sure what I was dealing with. And I called it Larry the lump when I had that conversation with her because I literally was like, Larry's gonna leave the building. And her her defense mechanism is humour. So which has been amazing because she's kept me laughing all the way through. But she's like, mum, are you gonna have a bald egghead? I'm like, yes, I probably will. I'm gonna lose all my hair. And she's like, really? She's like, can I lose mine as well? I'm like, would you do that? She's like, of course, I'd do that, mum. So my 2 girls actually shaved their hair off. We did a fundraising event for Cancer Research UK, and they both shaved their hair off. And they were 11 and 14 at the time, and I thought that was amazing. Like, my kids just doing that with me. You know? And they're at secondary school. They're not in a school where, you know, that they're that age where image is everything. And for them to do that was amazing. But, yeah, I think calling my lump, Larry, just made it a bit more, like, easy for me to have the conversation because that it was about removing Larry, and Larry went on holiday to America get to get tested and packed a suitcase. And we had all those little conversations because they test the tumor to see to see if you will benefit or not from chemotherapy. So my tumor went all the way to the States to get tested, to get a score out of a 100 as to whether or not I would need to have chemo or not. So again, that was an 8 week wait. And things like that just, you know, you've had the surgery. It's out of your body. Now you're waiting to find out if you're gonna go into 6 months of chemotherapy or not, but you have to wait 8 weeks to find that out. So it's it's those those periods are the hardest when you don't know what the next thing is. What was the hardest thing for Joanne Lockwood: you coming to terms with? Was it having losing your hair? Was it the surgery? Was it because steroids make you bulk up, change the shape of your face and things. What what happened when you looked in the mirror? What were you seeing? I hate Sam Rathling: I hate the mirror. I still do. I think the hardest thing for me was the chemotherapy. The surgery I found, I actually like the surgery because that for me was like the physical removal of the cancer. So I was like, okay. It's out of me now. So that was good. So I didn't mind the surgery. I had a lumpectomy, not a mastectomy. So I did I went into the consultant saying, take them both off. Like, get rid of it. Like, you know, just take them both off. I don't care. Like and she she said to me, Sam, let's just take the emotion out of this and talk medical facts and I can save your breasts and give you surgery and radiotherapy, and it will have no difference in the outcome. So we decided on a lumpectomy, so I didn't have, like, major it was a major surgery, but it wasn't, like, as big as, you know, taking both of them off. And when it came to the most brutal part of it was definitely the chemotherapy. I was not I was physically prepared for it. I knew it was gonna be hard. I knew I was gonna lose my hair. I knew all of that was gonna happen, but I had no comprehension of just how difficult and what a toll it was gonna take on my body, but and my brain in terms of my mental resilience that had to go through that. Just the the the fact that you're literally voluntarily walking into somewhere where you know they're gonna inject this awful stuff into you that's gonna make you feel so sick and really ill. I put on 15 kilos with the steroids in 9 weeks. It's a lot. My face is all puffy. I lost my hair, like all of that stuff. I'm just so tired all the time. And I've just made a video the other day, actually. It's up on my Instagram, my TikTok, of my year end pictures. It's about a 3 minute video. And you can see the difference in, for me, from when I first went into surgery to all of the chemo. But I think that I did definitely hit a wall. There was about it was about the 4th round out of 6 and I hit a wall and I looked in the mirror and I took a picture of myself and I never thought I'd share it, but I have. And that picture for me is, like, the epitome of, like, the worst time in my life ever. Like, I've just I just felt so awful. But I'm through it now. You know? I'm through the other side of it, and I hope I never have to go through it again. But now it's about risk of recurrence and keeping it away. So I'm on lots of different drugs and tablets and and medications to prevent it from coming back. So I'm now on hormone treatments and targeted therapy. So I'm on, like, an oral chemotherapy, but I also have to have 5 years for hormone treatments, which means I'm medically induced into menopause now, which of course brings all of the things that come with that as well on top of the side effects of the drugs and everything the other drugs. So it's a lot, but it has meant that I've had to really just handle everything that's thrown at me. And life carries on. I still have to get my daughter to the athletics track 4 times a week and still have to get the kids to school and I still have you know, do life. You can't just put your whole life on hold. So I think the biggest thing for me was managing all of that whilst you're feeling the worst you've ever felt in your life and battling through the whole thing. Presumably your your kids Joanne Lockwood: must have matured immensely in the last 12 months. And I I would like to think surprised you with their their level of maturity that's come out. Yeah. 100%. What's something to be noticed? I'm so Sam Rathling: proud of them. I mean, myself and my eldest son were having some challenges a couple of years ago. I ended up off the back of him kind of going off the rails a little bit thinking I need to get a handle on him and decided to go sober. Like, we have that in common, sobriety. So I'm nearly 700 days sober now, which was about 10 months before I got diagnosed actually. But I have noticed a massive shift in his maturity. You know, he looks after me, he makes big cups of tea without being arsed and he hugs me lots. You know, he wasn't hugging me a lot because he's a he was a 16, 17 year old boy and he was doing his own thing and whereas he's now a lot more caring, he's got an amazing girlfriend and I see him being like that with her now and it's amazing to see him doing that. So I think he's definitely matured a lot And his perception of the world as a teenage old, you know, 70 year old boy is everyone's invincible. And clearly, I think he realizes now that, you know, not everyone is invincible. But I think his level of maturity has been so impressive, especially with all the challenges he's had in his life with him being mixed race, bullied in school, neurodivergent. He's got a lot going on, that boy. And the fact that he's handled this so well and amazingly has been great. My middle daughter Maya, she's been an absolute trooper. I mean I was my mum had breast cancer when I was a teenager, so I do relate to how I felt. I mean, I I literally went turned into party girl. Like that was my way of handling it. I was not there and I feel bad now because I know what my mum was going through now. And I'm like, wow. I really should have probably been there more for my mum at the time. But, obviously, she had my dad and she had a, you know, an amazing, loving husband to support her through it, but I kinda went off the rails a little bit, and it really derailed me. And I think looking at my kids, like, that could have happened to them. It didn't. And Lily's just been, you know, my youngest. She's just been she just keeps me laughing all the time. She makes jokes out of everything, and she she really, like, she really does bring humour into the whole thing and she just makes me look at. She'll look at me and she'll literally she I showed her my picture of my worst day and she just she laughed so hard. And I was like, it's not funny. And she's like, but it is, mom. Look at you. So, yeah, it's it's one of those. They all all handed it slightly differently, but I'm super proud of all of them. I really could not have got through it without them. Like, they've just been amazing. Even your worst day, Joanne Lockwood: it's best than not having that day at all, isn't it? So Actually, a Sam Rathling: 100%. I mean, I'm it's it's so hard because, like, you talk about it and you think, well, I'm so grateful because, you know, my sister lost her best friend to cancer whilst I was being treated. And I had to tell her, knowing that her her best friend was dying in New Zealand. And I'm like, it's just, you know, a couple of my other friends or people I know through athletics, they've lost friends. So I know 4 or 5 people that have died from breast cancer who I don't know necessarily personally, but they're connected to my network. And I think, well, I'm still here. And, you know, it's one of those. It's like, I mean, I'm glad I I mean, I found my lump. I was 47 when I got diagnosed. If I had waited for a mammogram, they don't start screening until 50. I had done a mammogram 2 years prior and it had shown nothing at all. So my tumour had grown very quickly. And I was checking myself regularly because my mum had breast cancer and she actually had breast cancer twice and she also had ovarian cancer. She's still here. But everyone I know personally that's had it is still alive. It's the people that of people that have lost people. But but for me, I was just like, I need to check myself. And if I hadn't been checking myself, I wouldn't have found the lump and I wouldn't be I don't think I'd I don't believe I would still be here. Like if I'd have waited for my screening and not actually been checking myself every month. So I have it in my calendar and anyone listening to this, please, please, please check yourselves. There was breast tissue in the breast, in the collarbone and under the armpit. It's not just the so go watch a YouTube video and go learn how to check yourself because it can happen to anyone. Everyone thinks, oh, it's never going to happen to me. But it can literally it's not discriminative at all. It can happen to anyone. We've seen that with very high profile people, obviously, being diagnosed with cancer over the last year. So, yeah, it's one of those that's just I feel, you know, so grateful. And I you know, you go into the chemo ward and you're in there. It's like a meat factory. There's like 60 chairs in there and you're literally you're just like in. And as soon as some one person leaves the chair, there's another person in there and it's just it's like another pandemic that's not being seen. It's there's so many people going through treatment or going through cancer. And I mean, just the one little chemo ward that I go to, they see 2,800 patients a month and they have the stats up on the board and it's like, wow, like 2,000 and that's just a tiny little I live in Derby. It's not a big town. It's not like it's a town. It's officially a city, but it's not that big. But 2,800 patients going through chemo every single month in that ward Like and you sit there and you're in this you're not in a you know, you're literally in a big bay and there's 6 chairs over there and 6 chairs over here and you're literally opposite each other and you some people wanna chat, some people wanna sleep, some people wanna just, you know, not be there at all. It's just it's quite a fascinating experience to go through it and just really see behind the scenes of what is really happening, you know, in this. It's it's so many people, though. Yeah. And Joanne Lockwood: I a couple of years ago, I got the, the poo test kit through the post to do, and I put it on the side and thought, oh, I'll do this. So it looks a bit complicated. I had to get myself in the right frame of mind for it. Eventually, my wife nagged me, Marie nagged me. She said, no, no, no, no, dagged me, that's the wrong word, just nudged me and said, come on, do it. And I thought, oh, I have to post it off. And then Marie got hers a couple of years later, and she, again, I had to push hers because it's kind of this reluctance to sort of get yucky with it and dip it into the poo and send it off. And she did it. And then about a month later, one of our friends posted on Facebook that she'd done the poo test, and it came back positive. And you suddenly think, wow, I was laughing and joking, that invincibility, it would just be whatever. And suddenly someone you know does it, and it's an adverse result, and you think, wow, if I did, if that had happened in reverse, but we found out about her first, I would have just done it straight away. Yeah. So we've got to think, it's not it's not only breast cancer, there's No. All sorts of Sam Rathling: cancer. All sorts of cancer. Yeah. You know, the main thing is, if anything is unusual to you or not normal, like, the best thing to do is just to go get checked because 9 times out of 10 is not gonna be cancer. It's gonna be something else. But if anything is abnormal in your body, like, just get to know what your normal is because Joanne Lockwood: it would be any part of your body, obviously. You know? But things Sam Rathling: like, you know, when I told my friend group that I had breast cancer, they were like, oh, yeah. I should get mum you know, I've been getting those letters through about getting a mammogram or, oh, yeah. I keep getting asked for the you know, to go for a smear test or whatever it is. Like, all these things that you just put off because life is busy. And then it took me getting cancer for my friends to go, oh, yeah. I'll book that mammogram now or I'll get you know, I'll start checking myself or you know? And I thought, wow. If that's just my friend group, how many other people out there are just not are ignoring letters? And the amount of women I saw in there with cervical cancer that were ignoring their letters, it was, you know, amazing. And one mother and daughter came into the chemo ward, actually, and they were in there for the first time. And you can always tell when it's a first timer because they only let you bring a guest on the first time you go. The other times, they're too busy. You can't actually take someone with you, so I knew it was her first time. And she said, oh, yeah. I kept telling my mum to go and, you know, go for her smear test, and she she ignored it for 4 years and they found a tumour the size of an orange in her cervix and it's like she just because she didn't go and get checked. So if you are listening to this, obviously, like, you know, I'm a big champion of raising awareness, but the earlier they find anything, the the more they can do to help you. If you leave it or ignore it or deny it, then it could be too late. So anything that's abnormal for you on any part of your body, just go get it checked, please. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And if if you're a man listening to this, you know, copper fill, you know, it's a particular prostate cancer because I'm Sam Rathling: talking to both. Yeah. Both. Men can get breast cancer too. Men can get all sorts of cancer, as can women. So, again, it's just copper fill of all your bits. Whatever bits you've got, check them out. I Joanne Lockwood: think you're right in saying, even if you've got like a cyst, and it's only a cyst, get it checked out, go for the mammogram, whatever it may be, and then understand what your what your normal is. Normal is. Yeah. Sam Rathling: Exactly. Yeah. 100%. I mean, I the only reason I I mean, obviously, I do check myself all the time, but I just happen to be wearing something different to what I normally wear to go to bed. So I could only find like, I just grab, like, a really tight white t shirt, And I'd never normally wear a white tight T shirt to bed. Like, that's not what I'd normally wear in bed. But I put it on, and then I was lying back on my pillows. It was about 30 degrees. And because I wore was wearing a particularly tight top, my breast was splayed in slightly a different way. And I was like, oh, what's that? And I just thought, oh, I didn't feel that before. And it my tumor was the size of a walnut. Like, it was 2 and a half centimeters, and it was right at the very top. But if it had been buried anywhere, if it wasn't right on top of my left breast and it was somewhere underneath, like, I wouldn't have felt it or wouldn't have found it. But, thankfully, like, that white T shirt literally saved my life. But I found it on a Friday night, and, of course, the GP was closed. And I'm freaking out all weekend. I'm like, I need to speak to GP. I need to get to GP. And I literally rang first thing on the Monday morning and booked myself in that day. And it's a very quick process once they do suspect anything. It's it's very quick in this country. So I think we're very great I'm very blessed that we have the NHS and the staff have been amazing. And once you're in the system and you're you're going through it, like, it they dealt they dealt with it so quickly. But, yeah, I just can't thank them enough. I wrote the all the staff in the cancer ward and the chemo ward, a beautiful poem that they've got in their staff room now, and I bought them in a massive hamper full of, like, face masks and chocolates and coffee and, like, all these nice snacks because there's so many people in there. Like, I've probably interacted with over 200 staff in the journey. So I just, yeah, I just felt like I needed to do something for them because they're so amazing. You mentioned in in that that you, Joanne Lockwood: you stopped drinking 700 and something days ago, you said, I think. Sam Rathling: Yeah. And, what what was the the trigger? Because I Joanne Lockwood: also stopped drinking a 10 10 days ago, I think I am now, alcohol free. Just curious about what was your motivation? Waking up with a hangover one day, or? You know, most people do think Sam Rathling: that it is that, but for me it wasn't. I felt like I had I had quite a major incident happen with one of my kids. We were away in Bali on holiday and all my children were with me. One of them had decided in his wisdom that he would give access to my house to all of his mates and all of their mates. I came back to a crime scene and 27 teenage boys had moved into my property and had destroyed it to the point of no return and it was awful and it was just I don't know why he chose to make the decision to say yes, of course you can use my mom's house while we're away. The police raided my house while I was in Bali and yeah, it wasn't fun. I got a phone call from the police on New Year's Eve basically saying there was nothing they could do. They had 4 and a half hours in my house, got all the forensics they needed and basically decided it wasn't worth them spending any energy on it because it was just a bunch of kids. And they they had access to the house because he gave them the key safe. And I just thought, I have totally lost control here. So they they didn't break in as such. Joanne Lockwood: They had legitimate they were given access? No access. And I got the phone call Sam Rathling: from the police and I just thought, something's gotta change. And I felt like I lost control of a lot of it wasn't that the only thing, but there were a few other things leading up to it. We had been clashing quite a lot and I just felt like I had no emotional control. I had noticed I had been drinking more and more to handle the challenging relationship with my son leading up to that. I just thought and it was New Year's Eve and that's the one day of the year when you'd think that. I thought this is going to send me one way or the other. I had been noticing I had been drinking more and more on my own in the evenings and I was using alcohol to dull a lot of the challenges I was having with that relationship, which is now amazing. But back then it was really tough. I just was like, something's got to change. I took the call and I knew I was going to hit the bottle or something needed to change. I don't know what it was. I don't know why I decided in that moment. It was about 6:30 on New Year's Eve and I thought, no. I I literally have to get control back of my life and back of my kids, and that's when I made the decision to go sober. Yeah. I think for me, it was, just a realisation that Joanne Lockwood: I was I I I've been drinking since probably the age of 13. Many of us drink from our teens, don't we? I spent a few years in the Royal Air Force, which didn't help. That was kind of a training ground on how to drink. And I think that sort of set the pattern. And I was regularly drinking too much from the age of 17 or 18. And in my 30s, I joined a club. And that club heavily revolved around drinking. Going out and doing stuff, travelling around. And I think it just became a habit. And I realised I didn't like the person who I was. It was my gender transition, I fixed one part of my identity that wasn't working for me. And I realised there was another part of my identity, which is this alcohol dependent person and I'm not going to debate whether I was an alcoholic or alcohol dependent or just propped up by alcohol, however you want to describe it, but I was certainly propped up by alcohol. And it led me to make decisions I wasn't proud of. It put me in situations I wasn't proud of. It made, rather than go home when the bar shut, I'd be trying to find somewhere to get another drink. I remember being in Estonia on a speaking gig and we managed to find a kebab shop in Estonia that served alcohol at 4 o'clock in the morning. I was in Melbourne, Australia and we found a service station at 5 in the morning, we were selling alcohol in the bottle, and we went to the service station, bought alcohol, and carried on drinking. It was like, you wake up from these things and think, why did I not go to bed? I do Sam Rathling: that. Yeah. No. I was the same. I definitely resonate with a lot of what you've just said there. I worked for a drinks company. That was my training ground. I worked for Diageo for 4 years and literally sold alcohol. Alcohol was my life and I learned how to really cope with drink very, very well. But I had too many moments of bad decisions, blackouts, like not remembering 3 hours of an evening and I'm like, what am I doing? So I think I definitely was using alcohol to numb the pain of quite a lot of things. I've gone through a really challenging divorce. I have a toxic relationship with my ex. We went from having a really amicable fiftyfifty arrangement with the children to me having them 247 and him literally disappearing off the planet. So absent father, step you know, then I'm handling all of that plus growing a business, plus COVID, plus all these other things and I'm like, that was my coping mechanism. Definitely, 100%. So I resonate with all of that and I didn't really have a lot of control over that. I would go out but I'd go out out and I'd really go out. I'd be able to drink a lot. Out out. I really would have to drink a lot in an out out session, but then I found myself drinking on my own in the evenings and having a you know? And I'd open a bottle of wine, but bottle of wine would be gone. It's like you know? So I feel like it was a combination of things, but I feel much better now that I don't. And I think, well, maybe there's a reason why it all happened now because 10 months later, I got diagnosed with breast cancer and my liver was probably in the best condition it could be for handling, having to deal with all of that. So I think in some ways, I'm glad that all of that stuff happened because if I had still been drinking, maybe I wouldn't have found the lump. Maybe I wouldn't have been as aware. Maybe I wouldn't have been able to cope with the treatment and the chemo as well as I did. I mean, I know it was brutal, but, you know, I've come the other side of it and I'm I'm out the other side of it now. But, I mean, if anything was gonna turn me back to drinking, it would have been a cancer journey and a cancer diagnosis and I didn't. I haven't touched a drop since then. So I'm quite proud of myself that I managed to handle all of that, all of the chemo and everything without without alcohol being at my side because I think it would have definitely played a part massively if it had been 1 year earlier. That's quite a thing you're just saying Joanne Lockwood: there, that you've you've come out through this and you haven't needed to use alcohol as a crutch to get you through this. So if you'd have if you'd have kind of half stopped or cut down, it would still be in your life. But once you make a decision that it's no longer in your life, it's not the crutch, it's not the support mechanism you turn back to, is it? No, definitely not. And, you Sam Rathling: know, I have friends that have gone through the same journey as me and that was that that was their coping. They'd go in, get their chemo, take their wristband off, go over to the shop and buy 2 bottles of wine and down it so that they could then go into a deep sleep for 2 days because that's what you have to do when you've had chemo. Like, I would sleep at 18 hours, like, straight after a chemo session and just not come out of it. I'd go into my, what I call it, called it my hibernation. But I have friends that would literally go into their hibernation and do it through drinking copious amounts of wine before they went into hibernation. But I think, if I'd have actually been still drinking when I got diagnosed, I don't think I would have handled it as well. Like emotionally or physically, I think my sobriety made a massive difference to my treatment, I believe. I've kept in touch with you mainly Joanne Lockwood: from a distance through your social media posts and you mentioned your photo montage that you posted recently and I remember seeing that last week or week before whenever it was. And I was struck with just the power of those photographs, those images, and how, I don't want to use the brave word, but how it meant something to you to say this is me, this is who I am, this is what I've come through, and I'm owning this. And I've had a lot of strength in there, a lot of ownership. But you are, by definition, a social selling expert. And we know that personal brand, how you present yourself on social media, has to be has to have a level of humanity in it. It's not all me, me, me. It's got to be authentic, isn't it? And that's, that's the key we're talking about here. Yeah, absolutely. I Sam Rathling: actually did a session with some clients the other day and we talked about, I I gave 13 different words to them to that make up the power of a personal brand. And a lot of them are like, well, my content's not working or I'm not getting much engagement. I'm like, well, score yourself on these things. Like, score yourself on these 13 words. And one of them was vulnerability and authenticity and, you know, it's those kinds of things that draw people towards you. And I thought long and hard about whether or not to share my journey on social media, and I I knew I was gonna do it in some way, shape, or form because that is who part of who I am. Sorry if the dog's barking in the background and there's madness going on outside. Sorry, Joanne. Don't say That's right. About me being on the show. So, yeah, vulnerability, authenticity are key. And the more you can show up as a real human being in through your social media, the more people are going to be drawn to you. I don't talk about everything. I mean, half the stuff I've shared with you on here has never gone near my social media. Right? Some of the stuff we've talked about here, I would never in a 1000000 years post about. But, you know, I think I did talk to my business partners and we and I said, look, I really feel strongly about talking about this because I have a following and I have a voice and I feel like I can do some good through the bad, through fundraising, through raising awareness. And I think, well, if someone out there that chose not to do business with me because I'm going is really important because it will it does draw the right people towards you and it does attract clients and it does show that you are human. And I probably do it to not to the extreme, but probably more than most because I talk about everything that I've been through, all of the things I've the adversity I've been through, my sobriety journey, my cancer journey, my failures in business, all sorts of things. My kids and their neurodivergence, I talk about that a lot. When I did a post about Oscar last week and how he's come through bullying and, you know, through his challenges through neurodivergence and how we've our relationship has come through the other side. And that post has had a 160,000 impressions, which is a lot on LinkedIn at the moment. The algorithm does not do that these days. The amount of amazing things that have happened off the back of that one post about his neurodivergence and his differences and his bullying and all of those things. You know, he's been gifted a car by a lady who didn't know me. He's been invited in for 2 days in in Google's headquarters to learn AI with Google, which is amazing. And he's been offered mentoring by some incredible, really, really senior people within the AI and generative AI and data compliance. And, like, it's just amazing what's happened off the back of just one post on LinkedIn that was me being vulnerable about about, diversity and neurodivergence and all these things and racial bullying and things like that. But the amount of amazing, incredible things that have happened to him and to us since we posted about it is amazing. But I could have chosen not to share that, but I felt it was important because his story is very inspiring to a lot of people. The amount of people that were like, I got bullied. I resonate with it. The lady from from Google was like, that's my story and my brother's story. That's how we went through school. And it's incredible when you do share those vulnerabilities and real authentic things about the things that are going on for you and you have gone through, the right people step towards you. And I think it's important that we show up on social, not just as the professional mask, but like actually really who are you? Because that's what really connects us as human beings. A lot of people forget that behind every social media profile is a real human being, and it's that authentic connectivity that you can get through through your posts that will inspire others and inspire them to reach out to you. I often say to people that the difference between Joanne Lockwood: AI writing something and a human writing it is the human has a soul. AI has no soul. And without getting spiritual about this, you can tell the difference between artificial, because it's just heartless, there's nothing in it, there's no feeling in it. And we need I always think inclusion was all about feelings, how we connect with people, it's all about feelings. And if we're not careful, what we do is we sanitise everything down to what people should see about us. And pre filter everything. So we're almost taking the ability for people to get to know us. And people buy from people, don't they? 100%. Yeah. I mean, I teach this all Sam Rathling: the time. I mean, I work a lot with salespeople in big corporates and business owners when I'm doing my, you know, training and talking about social selling. And it it really is that people are so scared to show up that way, or they just don't know what to post or how to post. And I'm like, just think about just what you champion. Like, get behind you probably care passionately about 3 things outside of work that you would be happy to talk about so you don't have to share every deepest secret that you've got or every, like, everything that's happened to you, but just think about what you can champion. What do you stand for? What do you wanna get behind? What do you actually care about outside of you being a salesperson or outside of you being a business owner? Because those are the things if you can bring them to the newsfeed. They're the things that will connect you with other people, whether it's, I know, you're training for a marathon or you're going through, you know, some mental health challenges or you've your kids or whatever it is. Like, just talk about things that are real and human outside of you being that professional. And amazing things happen when you do that. Yeah. A friend Joanne Lockwood: of mine that I've known for many years, she posted on LinkedIn recently, after hiatus of about 6 months, that she's got brain tumour. And it's apparently, from what I gather, untreatable. And so she's now living with a an expiry date, for want of a better way of putting it. Although we all have expiry date above our head, we just don't know how soon that is. She's also been through a challenge with a child gender transitioning as well. So there's a huge amount going on in her life. And she's always been very authentic with sharing that side of her. But she gets a lot of trolling and hate and pushback by showing that personal side. Did you get anything pushed back to you? You know, the this is not allowed on LinkedIn crowd coming in? I Sam Rathling: I've never had genuinely never had any trolling, hate, whatever. I've never had it. My business partner gets it quite a lot, but he's very opinionated and very divisive on purpose on his post. But I have never had it. I've always I think because of the way that I obviously, obviously, over the years, I've become quite a good storyteller, and I think the way that I word things and the way that I structure things in a way that it's not just about that, it's also got lessons or whatever it is in there, I've never had hate on anything, on any social. Like, I've never had to delete comments. I've never had any nasty inbox stuff at all. I've never had any accusations about anything. And I don't know why. I don't I think LinkedIn is quite a professional platform anyway, but it's unusual for you to get that kind of thing. I've never had the whole like, oh, why are you showing this on LinkedIn? I mean, obviously, I'm a LinkedIn expert, so I don't generally tend to get that too much, but I've just never had it. And I don't know why. I think because of the way that my personal brand is and I give so much value as well around the topic of LinkedIn and social selling that I think people don't mind me also sharing my other side of things because I also do it in a way that it is inspirational to people rather than it just being a attention seeking thing. Do you know what I mean? It's I think I'd do it in a way that is probably a little bit different to others maybe. I don't know. Thinking about the the Joanne Lockwood: takeaway from you know, what are you gonna take away from this? What what's the what's the impact on you on how you think or feel or something? Yeah? Yeah. Other than just woe is me. It's Yeah. Exactly. Woe is me, and this is how you can Exactly. Take yeah. So I think Sam Rathling: that's how I always like to angle. I always try and find a lesson or find a something that people can take away from the post that is gonna help them in some way rather than it just being, like, this is happening for me. You know? Yeah. I think that's probably it. I don't know. Yeah. Joanne Lockwood: I I always remember the, the broadcaster, Chris Evans, said you've got to be kind of Marmite. Half the world's gotta love you and half the world's gotta hate you. Because once you've polarised people, that that sells. You know, people have become raving fans of yours. Yeah. Whereas if you try and be spam and bland and and something for everybody, it never quite hits the mark, does it? No. It Sam Rathling: doesn't. And I think a lot of people do show up as the boring version of themselves. Like, you know, you meet someone on Zoom or one to 1, and you say, oh, they're amazing. And then you look at their online social presence, you're like, that's not you at all. Like, that's just boring and dull. Like, why are you not showing up as the, you know, the person that you are? I'm not talking to you directly, obviously. But just when you meet people, you think, wow. Like, why are you why are you not bringing that to the like, that's the person I wanna see on the newsfeed. And ultimately, you gotta remember why people are on social. They're usually on social because they're bored or they're trying to sell something for their own selfish reasons. So if you're not entertaining, inspiring, educating, like, you know, they're just gonna scroll past you and you're just gonna be like in the boringness of most people's posts. And people wonder why they're not getting traction on their posts. It's because they literally are boring. Like, they're showing up as the most boring version of themselves. They are. Yeah. I remember Joanne Lockwood: I I was doing a pitch for to some speaker bookers once, and and one of the feedback they got was they're not sure about me because I I didn't come across with any personality. And I thought, blimey. Yeah. Normally, I ooze personality. I'm kind of jokey. I'm I'm bouncy. I'm all over the place. I thought, you're right. When I when I was in this mode, my brain was in be professional, be focused, be this, be that. And the only thing I wasn't being was me. Sam Rathling: You. Yeah. And it's learning how to just lean back and Joanne Lockwood: relax and and be yourself. And I found myself doing that more, doing online training recently, where think in the early stages, the COVID days, we were trying to be very professional, very kind of up. But now I'm very much more lean back, more relaxed, more comfortable in my own skin. And I feel the difference in me, and I think the audience feel the difference when you can show up as well. Yeah. I I think it makes a big difference. Like, how you Sam Rathling: the more you are you, the the more you show up as your authentic self and not this mask or this professional image that you want everybody. I think that that really has having, you know, done that more and more obviously recently. You know, the messages I get, all the people that step towards you think, well, anyone that doesn't want to work with you is not gonna step forward anyway, and you wouldn't want to work with them. And, you know, if they can't handle you as you are, then why would they want why would you want to do business with them in the 1st place? So I think you attract the right type of people by doing that and you deflect the people that you just wouldn't at all. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I mean, I I often think it's it's my my superpower is the ability to polarise people. You know, you either like someone who's trans or you don't. And so I very rarely get people who want to talk to me who don't like me because they tend to bother. So it cuts down half the sales force actually. Sales process, I love that. But people want to when people want to engage me, they they know who I am and they want to engage me. So I thought, my job is done. So in a way, it's it's if you if you knew what your personality type was that was able to do that with people, if everyone knew had this little sticker on their forehead and go, this is my type of person and if you don't like it go away. If you don't like it go away. You'd Sam Rathling: save yourself a load of time. It does, yeah. I don't get Joanne Lockwood: tyre kickers. Yeah, people don't just try and, oh, blobby, oh, you're trans, I never realised. It's like, So yeah, it's, yeah, I say it's a superpower, and I think owning it. Yes, big time. You've just got to own yourself, haven't you? Own yourself, yeah. Yeah. Definitely, Sam Rathling: for sure. And I I think that's if I was to get my kids to like, I think I've only really got that in the last few years. I think instilling that in my children early on, I'm like, just be you. Do you. Even my 11 year old, like, she's so amazing. Like, her personality is brilliant. I'm like, don't ever change. Like, just be you. Like, you're so brilliant. And she's she's such a character and I just never want her to lose that or to feel like she's got to show up any different to how she is. She's like, mum, if they don't like me, they don't like me. You know? It's just she's you know? I was worried about her getting bullied because my my son got bullied quite heavily. You know? They're mixed race. She's, you know, she's quite loud. She's ADHD. She's quite disruptive. Do you know? And I think I don't actually want her to be any different. And if people have approached she's like, people got a problem with me, mom. That's fine. It's their problem, not my problem. I'm like, yes. This is good. And she's 11, and I'm like, I wish I'd had that confidence and that, you know, I don't care what people think that young because and I feel like I hope I've instilled that in her in the way that I parent her, obviously. But, I just think it's brilliant, you know, the way that she shows up and the way that she is being you know, going to secondary school is a big deal for an 11 year old, and I don't think she's gonna have any issues. No. It doesn't sound like it. And and Joanne Lockwood: she's got a fantastic mom who's, right there with her as well and and and some siblings. So, yeah, it's, Some of the siblings who've been there and Sam Rathling: done it. So, yeah, it's all good. And not only got the t shirt, they've Joanne Lockwood: had the police wrapped. I know, right? Without everything. Sam Rathling: There's not much we haven't gone through to get us so good. Why can't we go to the hospital? It's a crime scene. Yeah. I mean, Joanne Lockwood: the circle of people we hang out with, you know, having a good story is always good things. It elevates to It's always good to have good stories. Always have good stories. I mean, we, as I say, we first met, I think it was 20 18, 2019, I can't remember which one of the conferences it was, but in an hour we've just spent together, I know more about you. You're a fantastic human being that I've loved spending this time with. It's been, I talked with you in the green room at the beginning. I was like, around about 55 minutes in, I'll say something like, what about what an inspirational conversation is. And when we get there, I'll mean it. And I mean it, I absolutely mean it. This has been a really fun hour. Obviously some serious topics. But getting to know you better has been absolutely fantastic, and I really appreciate your time today. Well, thank you for Sam Rathling: having me. It's been great. And, I look forward to, yeah, listening back to the episode. But how can people get hold of you? Joanne Lockwood: Where where where do you hang out? Yeah. Where do I hang out? Well, obviously, Sam Rathling: I hang out on LinkedIn mostly. So that's gonna be the place there's only 2 Sam Rathlings in the world, and only one of them is a girl. So I'm quite easy to find, really. The other one's a IT CEO in America that won't connect with me. Joanne Lockwood: And your your business is was it Pipeline 44, if I remember? Yeah. So the Sam Rathling: company is called Pipeline 44, but we have a couple of brands underneath that. So I look after the social selling teams brand. So I do a lot of work in corporate, working with sales teams, and we have the Social Selling Academy, which is for business owners who want to learn to get results from LinkedIn as well. So yeah. And you've got got a couple of books, and I actually own Joanne Lockwood: both those books physically and on, in Kindle, I think, because you're doing deals on Kindles. So I've got them both ways. But, yeah, you've got a couple of books. Yeah. So linked inbound and linked outbound, so they go hand in Sam Rathling: hand. Linked outbound is kind of probably more advanced than for people with Sales Navigator and who are doing a bit more kind of outbound in sales and prospecting. Linked inbound is kind of LinkedIn 101. So if you're brand new to the platform or you just wanna get started or you just wanna kind of really amplify what you're already doing, then LinkedIn Bound would be the place to go. So yeah. And they are bestsellers, aren't they? They are Oh, yes. Joanne Lockwood: Heralded heralded in the business community as as great resources. Yes. They are. And, yeah, I wrote the Sam Rathling: LinkedIn Bound in 2019, but I have a 2023 updated edition. The platform changes a lot, but the methodology is in there don't. So I wrote them specifically in a way that it whether the algorithm changed or the platform changed or, you know, it's it's more about the methodologies behind how you actually build your brand and get results and actually sell on the platform. So yeah. But what's next for for Sam Joanne Lockwood: then? Obviously, Carry On Living is is is on high on the list. Sam Rathling: Number 1, I think I've definitely shifted my priorities in life and my focus, and I've thought long and hard about, you know I'm very much a go getter, goal setting kind of girl. And, you know, this year, I'm just like, just get through to the end of the year. My next big thing is I'm heading off to New Zealand and Australia for 4 weeks, which has been the thing that's kept me going through this year, to be honest. All my family are meeting up. My sister's getting married, so I'm going off traveling, taking the kids to go and spend Christmas in the year in Australia and New Zealand, which would be amazing. And I think for next year, I think it's very much about just recalibrating and getting the balance right on my life and obviously health being a number one priority and not sweating the small stuff as much as I used to. I think it's definitely about living for every day and living for every moment and just not putting too much pressure on myself to achieve all these amazing things that I always have on my goals list. I'm like, it's enough right now for me to just be here, be present and have fun and create memories with the children. That's really my focus right now and obviously get through my next 5 years of treatment, but I'm still here and I'm still kicking and I can't wait to continue to add value and give back and just help as many people as possible with what with my knowledge and expertise. Thank Joanne Lockwood: you, Sam. Absolutely amazing. Thank you. Thanks. As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. If today's discussion struck a chord, consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites, and become part of our ever growing community, driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family, and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, stories, or a vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seachangehappen.co.uk, and let's make your voice heard. Until next time. This is Joanne Lockwood signing off for the promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire, and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world, one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.