--- title: "Claiming Each Other" episode: 134 date: 2024-11-14 guest: "Lorie Solis" canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/134-claiming-each-other audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-134/audio.mp3 --- # Claiming Each Other Joanne Lockwood is joined by somatic trauma worker and educator Lorie Solis to explore “Claiming Each Other” — Lorie’s approach to building resilient relationships when charged, values-led conflict shows up in our closest circles. Together they unpack somatics as a whole mind-body practice and how emotional charge, threat responses, and a sense of dignity and belonging shape the way we argue, withdraw, or escalate. Lorie shares practical, body-based ways to create more capacity in moments of tension, including how to pause and de-escalate before conflict takes over. The conversation also moves into lineage, identity, and decolonisation. Lorie reflects on her mixed ancestry and what it has meant to reconcile both colonised and coloniser histories, including how relocating from Texas to Portugal created new space for healing, reflection, and re-connection to land-based practices. Joanne explores her own feelings of disconnection from ancestry and how community, including queer lineage, can offer a different route to belonging. Throughout, the episode returns to the possibility of staying in relationship across difference — treating conflict as potentially generative, practising repair, and learning how to be connected imperfectly while remaining rooted in values, care, and authenticity. ## Chapters - 00:00 — Introduction and Welcome - 02:00 — Balancing logic and emotion in difficult conversations. - 07:22 — Discovered ikigai; prioritised true joy and happiness. - 12:55 — Diverse experiences impact relationship dynamics and belonging. - 16:12 — Open to challenges for better relationships, growth. - 23:55 — Decolonization involves reconnecting with indigenous roots. - 30:49 — Connection in conflict to mitigate isolation trauma. - 34:10 — Loneliness epidemic: seeking community, connection, resilience. - 37:28 — Healing through acknowledging personal and historical traumas. - 46:25 — Seeking connection to avoid conflict and loneliness. - 52:12 — Relaxed openness engages the nervous system's possibilities. - 59:00 — Left-leaning activate insula, less external threat. - 01:00:18 — Be respectful and curious about others' experiences. ## Key takeaways - The technique of "somatic first aid protocol" to manage conflict by engaging different parts of the nervous system. - The launch of the "Claiming Each Other Somatic First Aid Training" and its benefits for personal and professional growth. - Understanding the research on political views and brain structure to better comprehend differing nervous system responses. - The importance of self-awareness and relational repair in mitigating feelings of loneliness and disconnection. - The influence of societal expectations on personal authenticity and the courage required to deviate from ingrained paths. - Reconnecting with one's ancestral heritage through the process of somatic decolonisation and reindigenization. - Practical tips for building community, addressing conflict constructively, and fostering a sense of belonging. ## FAQs ### What does the term "slowing down in urgency" mean as discussed by Lorie Solis? Lorie Solis explains "slowing down in urgency" as an approach to handling urgent situations by intentionally slowing down in order to bring ease and maintain balance. This method helps individuals manage tension more effectively and respond with greater clarity and composure. ### How can listeners connect with Lorie Solis for further information? Listeners can connect with Lorie Solis physically in Portugal or through her websites, claimingeachother.org and somasantum.org. She is also available on various social media platforms for further engagement. ### What is the "Claiming Each Other Somatic First Aid Training"? The "Claiming Each Other Somatic First Aid Training" is a 12-week course starting in January. Accredited by the UK Complementary Medical Association, it is offered both in-person in Portugal and online globally. The course focuses on equipping individuals with skills to handle conflict and emergencies through somatic practices. ### What insights does the podcast provide regarding political views and brain structure? Research discussed in the podcast suggests that self-identified conservatives may have larger amygdalas, which heightens their fight or flight responses, whereas liberals might engage the insula more, allowing for complexity management. Lorie Solis examines these findings from a somatic perspective, focusing on understanding nervous system responses without moral judgement. ### Can emotional responses and conflict be beneficial in relationships? Yes, Lorie Solis and Joanne Lockwood see conflict as an opportunity for growth and deeper connection in relationships. Conflict, when navigated mindfully, can lead to relational repair and the development of skills to connect better, even when not perfectly executed. ### What is the "somatic first aid protocol" or "claim us"? The "somatic first aid protocol" or "claim us" is a technique introduced by Lorie Solis that focuses on maintaining care for all parties involved in a conflict. It begins with the step "connect to love," which may involve physically leaning back in one's chair to engage different parts of the nervous system and view possibilities beyond immediate conflict. ## Transcript Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyone not only belongs but thrives, you're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo, and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.lockwoodseachangehappen dotco.uk to share your insights, or to join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 134 with the title, Claiming Each Other. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome Lorie Solis. Lorie is a somatic trauma worker. That's easy for you to say. Body worker, educator, herbalist, and healer. And when I asked Lorie to describe her superpower, she said, she is a dynamic woman, and has gifts of sight on many dimensions and can see quite well in the darkness. Hello, Lorie. Welcome to the show. Lorie Solis: Hi, Joanne. Thank you for having me. Absolute Joanne Lockwood: pleasure. Absolute pleasure. So, Lorie, tell me more about claiming each other and somatic healing. Claiming each other Lorie Solis: is what I'm calling both a personal life work that I'm in at the moment and as well a methodology and training that I've developed and teaching people at the moment. And it's really about resilient relationships, building resilient relationships across divides in conflict kind of when we least expect it, when conflict comes up within our most intimate circles, especially when things are really important conflicts, not just kind of run of the mill mundane conflict, but really charged political, personal, ancestral, intergenerational material that comes up in our intimate circles and how to handle that with care, with reverence, with skill to heal it in the context of that relationship, and to build resiliency for, yeah, for more skillful, compassionate relationships. Joanne Lockwood: It's interesting. I I love the way you frame that. It inflict whether it's political, personal, or or or other dimensions. What's the root cause of conflict? Where where does it where does it come from? Lorie Solis: Oh, man. I wish I knew a really definitive answer to that question. I I think of conflict as a creative force. I like to think of conflict as a generative potential for something, a healing that wants to happen, the emergence of something new that is intelligent in its own way. So So I get curious from a somatic perspective of how we protect ourselves from a conflict. You know, the perception of threat. So it's something that we want to avoid or save ourselves from. But to kind of alter our perception, to recognize the opportunity, the calling, the potential, that it is an intelligent creative force that wants to happen through us. So where does it come from? I don't know. Maybe this innate creative intelligence of the cosmos may be manifesting through us. I don't know. I I think Joanne Lockwood: about, as I was saying, is that you can't challenge emotion with logic. And a lot of conflict is is comes out of emotion because we become emotionally connected with something. Yes. It's hard for us to let go of that emotion and that and that feeling, isn't it? Yeah. And I really Lorie Solis: I love that, actually. You know, I'm I'm curious about kind of courageous conversations and tackling difficult content from a really logical place, like debate skills, how to have solid conversations from a more rational, logical place with people you disagree with. That's one thing, and it's super important. Claiming each other, I think, more embraces the emotional charge, the reality that we are emotional beings as well. And when conflict comes up, there when it threatens, right, for example, our personhood, our dignity, our safety, our sense of belonging, that it's very rational that that has an emotional charge. And so instead of expecting that emotional content needs to be rational or needs to look in some other way in order for us to engage with it. I'm particularly devoted to being in the emotional content in a respectful and good way. I've Joanne Lockwood: never heard of the term somatic before. Can you enlighten me? Great. Somatics is a field Lorie Solis: of study and practice that deals with the body mind as a unified whole. So as opposed you might have heard of, like, mind body medicine, for example. So as opposed to cognitive approaches where we are just talking it out and it's the more logical and reframing or body based methods alone, like maybe body work. These it kind of joins these things. So it asks us to engage our whole neurobiology in order to align our ideas, our words, our thoughts with our values, and live accordingly to become who we want to become in the world, to be who we are meant to be. Does it make sense? Completely at at at one, Joanne Lockwood: aligned, you say, truly authentic in terms of your your values, who who you are, how people perceive you. Exactly. And it's hard you maybe have heard Lorie Solis: people have this conflict. I mean, I've had it. Maybe you've had it where it's like the mind is saying one thing and the body feels something else. There's this kind of sense of split, or we feel ambivalent how to be in our authenticity in a world that doesn't always allow us to live by our values fully. So how do we reconcile this ambivalence inside of ourselves and ourselves within the context of the larger world. So Maddox is about this, of using our mind body intelligence to make decisions, to be in our agency, knowing that we are not in our agency with a lot of the world. Joanne Lockwood: I I came across the, was it the Japanese art of a happy life, the ikigai, 4 or 5 years ago. And it really summed up for me that I was missing one of the core, one of the four pillars of it which is find something that brought me true joy and happiness personally. I was doing things to make money, I was doing things because I was good at it, I was doing all the other things. When I looked back on it I thought hang on a minute, I'm not getting any joy out of this, I'm going through it because I do. It's really hard though to stop and step back from that and really reflect and then say hang on a minute, to go forward I need to go forward with something that brings me joy as well and is that part of the healing process to try and figure out who you are? For sure. I think for some people, that's a big part of the Lorie Solis: healing process is to explore the various states of our embodiment, of our human embodiment, and to see where there may be gaps in those experiences. So I definitely resonate. I think I kind of knew pleasure. I knew contentment. But for me, joy was kind of an elusive experience. I think I could recognize it in other people, but then feeling like, this one I'm not so familiar with. And understanding my barriers to that, And then what does it mean for me to embody joy, not based necessarily on what I see in other people and what I think that means, but from a body, like, what does it feel like? What is joy on that intimate level inside? So it's definitely, I think, a part of healing is to allow ourselves the exploration of the range, the possible range of our expression. We pick up all this baggage in our life, don't Joanne Lockwood: we, from an early age where and then suddenly expectations, responsibilities and pressure and social constructs kick in and I hope you we all kind of fit into this image of what we're supposed to be rather than who we as you say, we're trying to find this alignment. Often sits outside this societal expectation, doesn't it? I suppose so. Lorie Solis: I always kinda felt that I I think I had a in my family of origin, I felt such a sense of acceptance and belonging for who I was, which I've come to see maybe just in the context of my work because I work with a lot of people who have not experienced that. But it does feel like maybe somewhat of a rarity. And as far as societal expectations, in many ways, I could meet those, but in other ways, I just couldn't. And so I felt in a way, although constrained in some ways, also liberated. Like, I can't I cannot meet these expectations. There's no way. So I I'm not sure I should even try, really. You know? Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. No. I I I agree. And I've I've been in a few things recently where I've realised that what I was doing wasn't bringing me joy. And, but it's like walking down a one way street, you think, oh, I'll just I'll get to the end, I'll get to the end, I'll get to the end and you realise there's no end. It's just an everlasting straight. And sometimes having something nudge you halfway down that road saying, come on, or the rules change or something changes and you look back and go, you're so worried about letting go of it and then you realise that once you've let go, you realise that was the right thing to happen at that particular time in your life. And rather than feel the disappointment or the failure or anything else you did, you go, actually, I was done with it anyway. I took joy from having the courage to step out. Yeah. And it does take courage, Lorie Solis: doesn't it? Even when things aren't working, quote, unquote, there's still, like, a comfort in the familiarity of the path that we've been on. So to kind of sidestep or reorient a different way into the great unknown, it does take courage. It's scary. Can be. Yeah. You mentioned Joanne Lockwood: at the beginning, when we we talk about here, it's it's in relationships. And sometimes relationships, whether that's intimate or casual, conflict does arise because we're so invested in keeping that relationship happy and healthy that things go unsaid or things we we say too much sometimes as well, don't we? Yeah. Lorie Solis: Absolutely. When I say intimacy, I don't just mean, like, romantic or sexual intimacy. I mean this, like, sharing ourselves and our authenticity with each other, and being, as you say in your show, as a sanctuary for our unique boldness, which I do thinking is inclusive of our vulnerability. That has something very much to do with our boldness. And, yeah, I do believe that conflict is inevitable on some level. And once again, I believe that it is a generative force to to learn and grow and belong together in ways that are more profound than we may be stepped into the relationship realizing that we would be tasked with figuring out together. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I think we we can sometimes we could be over invested in our belief. That's I think that's when the conflict that's where conflict escalates, isn't it? Where conflict is, I want to watch this television programme, you want to watch that television programme. It's minor conflict. It's just disagreement or bickering. But when we become really, really invested, it becomes a kind of deal breaker. That's where the conflict starts to escalate up, isn't it? Absolutely. And deal breakers, I Lorie Solis: mean, they're real too. Right? And with claiming each other, it's not for me to say or decide what people should or should not tolerate in their relationships. You know? But in these last years, we've seen a lot of deal breakers around really big topics around the pandemic and around the me too movement and Black Lives Matter and trans liberation and Palestine, Israel. There's these huge things in our world, and I have seen that people in our we, I think about, like, us and them. Who is in our us? There's a lot of diversity in that space of thought, And I'm very curious about how we encourage each other's growth and authenticity and open mindedness, which may result in a change of mind that may make us uncomfortable with each other, and how we can potentially stay in belonging together and create this sanctuary. Can we create sanctuary together when we start to realize that we are having very different experiences and thus perceptions about some really important things? We Joanne Lockwood: get very invested because of our our lived experience, don't we? So when we look at the I mean, where are we now? This is October 2024 we're recording this. The hostilities in the Middle East are escalating slowly and surely, well actually quite rapidly with missiles being thrown and people being assassinated and bombed and whatever. Both both sides are are now claiming the the right to be righteous here. It's really hard for someone like myself who is has no lived experience on either side, to have an opinion other than trying to crowdsource as much information as you can, wanting everyone to just deescalate because there is no future in conflict. Yes. It's how do we move past these things? You know, I've been investing my Lorie Solis: time, energy, my devotions in my community. I've always been very politically active on grassroots levels in the states. But my activism or what I consider my activism has really moved towards focusing on my community scale relationships. So in the community that I live in, I am in close relationship and contact with Israelis and Palestinian people who live here in Portugal. So I definitely have my opinions about the situation. I have my perspective from my limited investment. I am not Israeli nor Palestinian nor Middle Eastern. And yet, I have chosen to, in the spirit of claiming each other, kind of curb that tendency we can have to enter into debate or opinion sharing, or here's my perspective to center actually the emotional content, the the grief, the care, the trauma of the people from, quote, both sides who were sitting with me and sitting in front of me. And that challenges my opinions sometimes on who I think Israelis are, for example, and what I feel about the Israeli government to sit and care together and to be let in to their unique vulnerabilities. It's really a privilege. And I've sat with people and cared with people about many topics that have challenged some previously held convictions. Like you're saying, we hold really we hold really tight to our convictions based on our experience. And I'm still this kind of person who of conviction. And I wanna let myself be challenged for the purpose of being in good relationship with the people around me. And that's been a lesson, I mean, I'm changed many times over, and this is what claiming each other is really about, is letting ourself be held in the challenge and acknowledging that things are a bit more complicated than we sometimes need them to be when things get intense. You know, the tendency when there's conflict or when things start to get intense, we start to narrow in. The options start to feel really limited, like you're either with me or you're against me. And we can't always reconcile, I'm with you. I just feel differently about this thing. So it's like making that space, and this is where the somatics come in, how to actually make greater capacity in our mind body to be able to contain that complexity and the uncertainty of that, which is very intimate. It contains the threat. It contains the hope. It contains all of it. Right? How to sit in that and let it be generative for ourselves individually and potentially the relationship. Yeah. I I Joanne Lockwood: often talk about the fact that I I don't have to agree with your opinion or belief, but I can empathise and understand your why. Why do you believe that? Why is that your opinion? What is your background? And then I can sit there and work it out with you and go, I see why you would believe that. I still I still have a different view, but I now empathise with why you believe something, which I think we we many people don't really invest the time into getting that deep with people. They just wanna challenge the answer, not look at the working out. It's really a skill. You know, I appreciate Lorie Solis: the it's a skill that I think we can practice. I'm not sure that a lot of people have received, like, relationship training on this kind of conflict level, if at all, maybe. So, you know, I'm trained in first aid and in psychological first aid, and I was a civilian first responder. And I realized, like, you know, if there's an accident or a fire, our basic training for protection is probably to run away for survival. Right? And I I see this also in relational conflict. Our basic human training is this fight, flight, freeze. We have these tools at our disposal. But to be the person who runs into the burning building or to run towards whatever emergency it is, it requires some extra training and some extra skills to be confident in your capacity to handle yourself and whatever else in the uncertainty. And this is very relevant to the training of claiming each other. It just acknowledges, okay, we have our basic training to be in generative conflict together in really serious topics that that involve our histories, our lineage, our embodiments. We need we might need some extra skills for this one, some extra training. So this is where my work comes in. I mean, you you mentioned the Joanne Lockwood: word lineage then. I noticed from the the bio you sent in for the show around your indigenous lineage, First Nation, is that how you describe yourself as well? Lorie Solis: American Indian, indigenous American. And Joanne Lockwood: you you had a you've got a really long description with hyphens in it. I I couldn't pronounce all of this. Do you want do you want a Afrotainer or something? Is it? I don't know what I Lorie Solis: wrote there, but I can give you the quick hyphenated spiel of my makeup Go for it. If you're curious. Go for it. No. No. I'd Joanne Lockwood: love to find out more about you. Sometimes it changes based on what I'm connecting Lorie Solis: with. I would say Afro, Taina, Chicana, Lipan, Apache, Texan. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Most of that. Boracua? Was it the wrong one? Lorie Solis: Boriqua. This is the indigenous name for what is now known as Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico, and the Caribbean. And the Taino people are the indigenous people of Borikeng. So Borinquen is the name the indigenous name of of Puerto Rico, and then the indigenous tribes there are the Taino people. You've grown up with that Joanne Lockwood: lineage and the stories of your ancestors, and you're connected to the From both of them. Earth, if you like. Definitely. Planet in a different way. I definitely feel that this has held Lorie Solis: me, this connection to ancestral practices from both sides of my maternal and paternal lineages. And it definitely informs, I think, my personal capacity for complexity and to reconcile what sometimes feels like irreconcilable differences. How I've been able to literally embody that has certainly served me in my work to bring that to others and to practice together. I've heard people use the word Joanne Lockwood: decolonization before. How does that resonate with you and the work you do? When you say decolonising, that's removing colonisers from your life or from your viewpoints or? Okay, I'm curious what you Lorie Solis: understand it to mean, if you wouldn't mind sharing. I suppose Joanne Lockwood: decolonising, so I start from probably the the opposite side. So for me, colonization is an unwanted person taking over your space, for want of a better way of describing it. I come to your country. I come to your house. I want to take over. I want to steal your resources and expect you to live the way I want you to live. It's probably how I would describe sort of colonisation, so I guess decolonisation is reclaiming your power. Get out of my house, get out of my country, get out of my head, let me live my life without your view of the world imposing your privilege, your beliefs, as some sort of power and control over me. I suppose it's the way I would probably frame that without a better definition. Lorie Solis: Yeah. I think when you speak to indigenous people across the globe, decolonization necessarily means land back. So there's land back movements to return lands stolen land from indigenous peoples. And this is important because indigenous peoples' lifeways, their lifestyles, their spirituality, the food, everything is so intimately connected to land. And so without access to land, people are not able to self actualize their own liberation. So that is a component and a very important component of decolonization. Now from a somatic perspective, you mentioned a lot of things of decolonizing our minds, our bodies, our relationships. And this is about examining where kind of dominant narratives and powers that be, whether it be from a legal and state standpoint to the medical establishment, have determined for us what is acceptable, what is ill, what is pathological, what is allowed. What what are the boxes for it to be checked only? Right? In all of the ways. So decolonization for me is about a deep dive into my belief systems and how I embody them, where those came from, and purposely reconnecting to my indigenous landscapes. Literally, the land looking to land, animals, ecology for wisdom that applies to what might seem like it doesn't like relational conflict or pull it the political sphere because it is interconnected. And, you know, all people are indigenous to this earth. We all come from indigenous lineages. And so I'm very passionate about this kind of not just decolonization, but reindigenization of ourselves to our mind bodies, and how to work that in the healing of our relationship, which I think broadens the potential for a deeper level of acceptance of each other even in our differences. Right? It allows for that complexity and that space for that quaking of the unknown inside of us can really be held when we contextualize ourselves in more. We're not just alone. It's not just me and you trying to figure out this issue between us. Right? We are held in a larger scope of of lineage that I believe wants to see us thrive together because life wants to live. Life wants to live. And I think that we are faced presented with challenges towards that aim to for thriving for thriving, for sanctuary building. And that doesn't mean that the what then do we do is not necessarily made clear. But when I have found that when we couldn't connect to that deeper fabric of intelligence, that informs us of what to do in a different way than we're when we're kind of just on the human, just on the political, just on even the interpersonal. I found that it's a limited scope of perception to enter into conflict with. So something as simple as maybe not simple, but, yeah, remembering in the moment. The moment when we're presented with conflict, literally connecting with our felt sense. But there's more going on around us than we maybe realize at first glance. That there's a living, breathing world around us, that our ancestors may be present with us. This can inform our decision making process. What we choose in a conflict resolution process might be informed by our perception that is actually more inclusive than just what's right in front of us in any moment. Does it make sense to you? How are you feeling about it? It Joanne Lockwood: does. As you're talking, I'm I'm kinda thinking, I feel a bit envious because as a as a white queer woman living in the UK, I don't have any sense of connection to a lineage, an ancestry. My ancestry really is my parents. No real connection to my grandparents. I certainly wouldn't go back to William the Conqueror or Roman invasion or anything back 1000 of years. So my connection really is, is of the moment. And I often think of my family as being my parents and our children, rather than going back in history. And I listen to what you're saying there about spirituality, the connection, the traditions that are being brought down that are important to you. I feel a bit envious and jealous that you've got something you connected with something bigger whereas I'm sure many people that I mix with in the UK have a very similar disconnection with the history. They don't feel this lineage. Yes. It's almost empty here that you're because of your indigenous oppression of old and the past, that oppression has caused you to be protective of what you had and fight back for it. So I'm quite protective of my queer heritage now. I'm more protective of that than I was before but if you're straight, you're white, you're male, you're this, you're that, you are the majority and therefore you never consider what it's like to lose something or have to hold on tightly to something to stop being taken from you. Nothing. Is that what you're saying? The the lineage and the history and the spirituality you're feeling is that that the fact you had to refight and hang on to what you've had? You know, I think I would have had to do this. And I, you know, Lorie Solis: I live in Europe now, and the conversations around decolonization are different than in the states. And this has opened my mind a lot to a lot of various perspectives around things that I have held dear around queerness or race issues. There is a kind of very American centric narrative sometimes. And so to open my perspective to what Europeans feel about this has been really fascinating. And people from all people from across the globe come from peoples who have been colonized, including Europeans even though, right, it's farther back in the historical data. So there might be some, what I would say, somatic amnesia from the mind body. It's hard to connect. I don't remember. It's been so long ago. And, of course, there's also some hesitance to connect for why? Why connect to the colonizer lineage? Right? But even in that, there is more complexity. There is resiliency, there's wisdom, there's landscape, so it doesn't have to be ancestral lineage in this way. You know, I I when I do somatic decolonization work with people that don't have names, places, dates, don't have access to that data, we go into the mind body, and we trust the wisdom of that with curiosity to see what kinds of landscapes are we really drawn to. Where do we feel at home? Where do we feel welcomed? And even greater communities of care, like queer community, has its historical lineage through over the world over. You know, we have always had queer people across the globe and every tradition, right? So if that's our access point to lineage, I think it's very rich and profound and can connect us back in a way that's like, I'm not alone. I could never be alone even when I'm feeling lonely. And I think this is important when we're in a moment of conflict because conflict can feel like disconnection from someone I love and care about that's saying they love and care about me, but yet they're they're presenting some opinions or material here that's making me feel uncared for, unseen. Right? That can create this loneliness and isolation. And this is where trauma can really set in, is in this prolonged feeling of disconnect, of isolation from from care. So I think connecting, like, connecting ourselves even if we feel disconnected from the person sitting in front of us temporarily or perhaps, you know, into the future, to know that we are held connected beyond beyond the superficial. And that the present what's in the present moment is still more complex and dynamic than what might meet the eye on the surface level. And this is it might sound you know, there is a kind of esoteric, and it is spiritual. Right? And the somatic process is really about landing it in a very practical way. How how does one connect? How does one feel these things? How does one apply what they feel then to a difficult conversation? And this is what the training is about. It's about landing these ideas into the mind body so that we're actually living it. We're embodying it in a way that feels authentic to us individually and that makes sense in the context of our relationship and the life that we are wanting to create for ourselves. Joanne Lockwood: As you're speaking there, you talked about being alone and being lonely. And as you were talking, I was listening to you and it sort of popped into my head. I finally understand why there's a difference. Lonely is a feeling. I feel lonely. Alone is a reality. It's a situation you're in. So you can be alone and still lonely. You can be in amongst people and still be lonely if you haven't got that sense of belonging. Because if you don't feel connected with the environment you're in, no matter how many people are there, you're going to feel alone. You're going to feel lonely. And it's finding that that tribe, that that crowd, that group, that environment where you feel part of it. So you don't feel lonely, you feel engaged and committed and belonging. And I think, I've listened to that. That really just popped out into my head as you're talking. I've really tried to orient Lorie Solis: myself more truly to what I perceive is reality. And What I perceive is that we can never be alone. For me, it's just not true. Like I am part of this interconnected whole. And so this invites me to be more precise with my language, because I notice not only what my language indicates about how I'm feeling. So if I find myself saying I'm alone, this is like an existential state of being where I am feeling disconnected from everything that I know darn good and well that I'm connected to, but I'm not feeling it. And this informs me of, oh, I'm not feeling these connections. Here's what I can do based on what I've learned in my somatic practice. What's happening is I'm feeling there is a difference of feeling lonely, but I could never be alone. And this is the reality for many people right now is that we are lonely. People are lonely. It's this epidemic they've said of loneliness. And so I get very curious as people are learning about how to get out there and how to build community and find their tribe, which is a whole work unto itself. Can we still feel connected in the here and now while we're out there doing this work of addressing our loneliness? Can we know that we're not alone and, like, root into that medicine? And how does that inform? Because once we go out there and find our tribe, we're probably gonna find some conflict. And so I don't want our relationships to be so fragile. Our very innate need for safety and belonging and dignity. Right? We'll be challenged in ways that we don't expect, I think. So So I want there to be space for that nuance. Yeah. So that when we feel lonely, we don't have to get into the existential, I am alone. No one gets it. I am, you know, uniquely abandoned by the intelligence of the world. It's I just try to remind myself that it's maybe ecologically not true. But you you Joanne Lockwood: must have had to when you when you so you brought up in Texas, you got Puerto Rican ancestry and background and indigenous lineage, all this all the various aspects of your identity. And you just picked everything up, flew 5,000 odd miles and ends up in Portugal. Did you do that literally as a lift and shift, or did you have family or friends, or you just went, hey. I've I've had enough of you checking out. Let's figure it out as I get there. I think it was a long time Lorie Solis: coming. It was a bit of both. After yeah. In 20 from 2012 till 2017, I had a series of tragedies in my life and very challenging experiences. And that within the political climate of the time, I was feeling really increasingly unwell. And I had been, yeah, somewhat used to traveling, so kind of open to moving around and exploring. I've gotten married, and my partner was also kind of open to it. We had had a child, and that person was still young. So we're like, we could pack them up and go. And I think we just took a chance. You know, I needed somewhere that felt safe. And I always you know, I'm not someone that kind of considered myself afraid, But I have been, and I am. And I feel like I never really understood what it felt like to be safe until I moved somewhere where there are no guns, where violence is at an absolute minimum. Like, nothing for me. This is how I experience it, and I'm a bit of a hermit. And so my experience maybe is not the same for everybody else, understandably. And yet for my healing my own nervous system, my own traumas that were coming up in that period before we left. To have a space, like, literal space and time to be with those things gave me the opportunity for healing on a level that I didn't even know that I needed. And I'm not sure I wanted to know at the time that I needed, but I think that was the opportunity. So even some of the stuff around colonialism, like, I live very close to the 1st slave market here in Europe. I didn't know this was here and I didn't know that on some level I was being asked to move to Europe to heal this discrepancy between my internal colonized and colonizer. This was not part of our conversation when we were talking about moving here. And today, it's very clear that this was part of the opportunity to be here, which of course also informs of this work of of acknowledging that we are expansive beings and the 2 boxes don't do it for even most of us, dare I say. Joanne Lockwood: Export Portuguese people were one of the big colonisers at the time. You know, Spain, Portugal, France, United Kingdom, the Dutch. Lorie Solis: Of course. We all, sailed sailed the 7 seas and Joanne Lockwood: and exported our values and stole resources. And, yeah. And Lorie Solis: this is this is who I'm surrounded by, all of these nationalities that you've described. Yeah. This is who I'm with. And, you know, the truth is I, of course, also have Spanish colonial blood, should I say, as descendant from a Puerto Rican woman. And my dad is also Mexican American and native, you know, American. This is the Spanish colonial influence is certainly something I'm close with, but it's not something I claimed. We kind of we had our own identities that were more state centric or, like, relevant to us, and I realized that there was definitely some disclaiming that was happening, some judgment, some ostracizing of some of our people. And so in our lineage. So what it meant for me to be here and as well reintegrate and claim that part of my line, that part of my history to feel that I do belong here on the Iberian Peninsula as well on some level has been really fascinating because I am a guest in a foreign land in a way. And at the same time, I have very real roots on the Iberian Peninsula that have also helped me in this work of stepping into this. It can be a very volatile space with people, where 2 seemingly opposite things are wanting to be reconciled, but it can feel very dangerous sometimes. That so the Joanne Lockwood: the Hispanic, Latino part of your identity probably means more to you coming from the States than it does to the indigenous population of Portugal and Spain, that they just are. Whereas you feel that connection, whereas they just had it all their lives maybe. Maybe. I mean, I feel that people are Lorie Solis: proud of who they are here and that have a connection to culture and history and lineage. There is a kind of established sense of who we are. And in the states, it's interestingly mixed because we do have a kind of Americanness about us. Even in Texas, where I'm from, we are many people are very proudly Texan, which is unique to the rest of the country. And in that, we're still the melting pot. There are still people from the descendants of enslaved people. There is indigenous people all around us all the time. There you know, there's people from all over the world. So I don't know. I do see that people, especially when we open the conversation or the possibility for people to connect to who they feel they are in the context of lineage or land or ancestry. I've seen that people are a little bit sometimes hesitant to go there. I think there's some, like, tension around identity and lineage and ancestry, and I'm very curious about that. And yet when we can open it from a place of curiosity and resilience, I think it's beautiful to and important to connect with the complexity of our our lineages. Right? Not just, oh, you're from the colonizer lineage? You're out. Like, it's not it's not so simple. And, of course, people don't wanna connect in that way or feel welcomed into the conversation. It's not it's not generative. Right? And maybe that's sometimes where people are. I think when there there might be a time in people's in our lives when options do get limited, when we feel hurt or scared or threatened, or we're just redefining our boundaries for ourselves. Like, this is what I'm opening myself to, and this is what I'm not open for. You know, there might not be that space for complexity and curiosity and all those things. I think that can that's okay too. If we can be transparent about it and still be compassionate, I think it's time reduction, to be honest with each other about where we're really at and what kind of complexity or not that we can really be in. And I trust that. I trust that it's in service still to somebody's becoming even if I don't like it, even if I wish there was more space for something. You know, when I hear a no or, like, this is my limit for this conversation, it's important for me to respect that. And that, I think, is still part of of the generative process also. But moving to Portugal, Joanne Lockwood: with your lineage and background and history of family, it must have inherently had a sense of belonging because as you say that the culture I guess of Portugal, Spain area isn't too dissimilar to I guess the Hispanic Latino culture, you probably came from the same religious type family values, very probably similar. How do you keep in contact though with your indigenous American, if you like, culture because you're now separated by 5 or 6000 miles. Yeah. Do you do you miss that that element of your identity? I do. Lorie Solis: I do miss it, and sometimes I can feel very lonely. I I have not yet met another Puerto Rican indigenous Chicana, Lipan, Apache person yet. And if you're out there, call me. No. I can feel very lonely. And yet, I feel like my practices, my somatic ancestral practices, you know, as an herbalist, growing and making medicine, growing food, being with the landscape, communing with plants and animals. The landscape here, the bioregion is very similar from where I'm from in Texas. And I find that really interesting because I can see some of the species that I know from Texas. They are endemic. Their indigenous origin is from the Iberian Peninsula. And this connects me. You You know, I have contacts with people from the states, and this thank God for the Internet these days and for even social media, which allows me to feel connected. But really the most profound connection comes from the mind body, from the somatic place of knowing that I am connected. And I'm someone who's chosen to live kind of as an edge worker. I've never been smack dab in the middle of any one of the communities that I identify with with queer community with it. I'm always on the edge of these of of the in between space. And that can feel lonely. That can feel like I'm being misunderstood. That can feel like I'm a threat to one side or the other. And somehow that has been my path and calling and my choice. So including my own needs around connection. Yeah. It's I really take that as my own opportunity and responsibility to practice, not just, like, go find it, but to embody it, to embody the knowing that I am connected no matter where I am. Yeah. Joanne Lockwood: That's very powerful because you you've got that deeper sense of self at a in a level, not superficial level. I can I can feel that? And say even though you can feel lonely in places, you've still got that that inherent connection with the world, with the earth, with the land, and that transcends distance as well. And that's the Lorie Solis: medicine, you know, because I, through all these practices, have come to know myself intimately and also through being willing to come to know myself through the experience of people I love, which is a whole another thing. Especially when they're not like me of being willing to know myself through their eyes. And I know that when I start to feel lonely or disconnected, that can lead to crabiness, resentment, some hostility, some bitchiness. Right? And then I'm more apt to create conflict. When I when what I need is connection. I'm I'm starting to, like, create this conflict in myself and feed that, and then I'm creating with other people, and I'm seeing that no one gets me, and all these people blah blah blah, and, you know, I'm creating this whole situation. And this I get curious about because I feel like there's my opportunity for the healing that I need. And I can't always see it in the moment, of course, because sometimes I'm just neck deep in the conflict. And I have to act it all out. And then later on, I'm like, man, I missed the opportunity, and now I have to go repair. And that's part of it too. That's part of it too for sure. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's so much easier to coach than it is to do, isn't it? It's For sure. You know the techniques, and I'm sure despite knowing the techniques, you find yourself, as you say, having to reflect afterwards and go, could have been better there. Could have tried something different. And that's part of it. I think we're so also Lorie Solis: repair, relational repair, we're not so trained in and perhaps practiced in. That's so much part of it. And as a kind of edge worker, I feel like I've had a lot of experience in making mistakes in an effort to help and show up and advocate. And it's like, oh, that wasn't quite it. And so how to be in that repair cycle, which is part of building resiliency, which maintains dignity and belonging. I've had a lot of experience and with lots of different kinds of communities. And sometimes it feels lonely because I I need that too. I need that. I don't think I've always received it as skillfully as I like to hope that I give it. And I've realized that there's a skill on the other side too of, like, allowing myself to be connected with imperfectly. Like, let myself be loved imperfectly. And that has been a deeply humbling practice for me. Even though the people I'm around are maybe not relationship, you know, workers like I am, they don't have the same skill set, and they're not doing it just like I would do it. They're doing it in their own way. And let me acknowledge that. See it, feel it, and receive it has been really important for me. Joanne Lockwood: Well, I'm in a I'm in a situation. I can feel the little quake developing, just little ripples and the bit of judgment. How can I put myself in a mindset where I'm receptive to thinking, hang on a minute, this is going to escalate, the conflict is going to grow? How can I start to deescalate? How can I what techniques can I use in conversations or in thinking to to help me deescalate? Thank you for asking this question. It Lorie Solis: really brings us to the, like, practical. It all sounds great. What do I do? And I just wanna say I love this moment when we feel that quake. Because in me, I can feel like, man, I could really destroy this whole thing. Like, or maybe there's another option. So somatically, one thing I this is the first step of my of the somatic first aid protocol. So there's claiming each other is the name of it, and then we have this acronym, claim us. What do you do when there's a conflict? Claim us. It's about holding both of us in reference and care, not just me or you. It has to be me or you. And the first step is what I call connect to love. It's the c l. And practically, we explore this for many different ways because what that means can be many different things. One thing I find really effective is literally to sit back in your chair. If you it's not uncommon that when conflict starts yes. See, I see you just getting comfortable. Does it change something for you when you kind of sit back? Do you notice a change in perception? Yeah. Ready to Joanne Lockwood: engage. Yeah. Yeah. Thinking actively leaning in. Yeah. But then when you sit back, do do you notice that something Lorie Solis: slightly changes as opposed to the leaning in when you sit back? Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. Probably less focus, maybe, more more drifting, whereas leaning sitting up, leaning in. I'm here to here to do, here to think. Yeah. I saw you as Lorie Solis: well, like, move your neck. You were you kind of oriented. You saw the space around you. Your eyes moved around. So when the conflict starts to happen, it's normal that we start to, like, lean in and narrow in with our vision, and it has this kind of intensity about it. And maybe we don't intend this kind of threatening posture, but we're picking up on it because we're mammals, and that's what we do. Right? So when we notice in ourselves when conflict starts to happen, it's like, oh, I start to narrow in, all of my senses come in, I'm leaning forward, something's happening, I wanna be engaged. Still keep that orientation towards engagement, but literally sit back in your seat. It it can remove in our own mind body. It re patterns this embodiment of threat to this openness of possibility. It's like, okay. Something serious is happening, and I wanna be here for it. But let me embody something a little bit more relaxed, open for possibility. This engages the dorsal vagal part of our nervous system, which innervates our back body. Right? I saw this this chart of the blended states of the nervous system, and they had the embodiment of intimacy as the blended state between dorsal vagal life threat, like you're about to die, dorsal vagal shutdown, And ventral vagal, safety and connection. You're gonna die, and you're in deep connection. And I thought this was amazing as a as a suggestion that this is what embodiment intimacy is. And it reminds me of this when we sit back of, like, okay. There's a threat. Something's happening. And I'm gonna sit back and be open to the connection. So We're engaging both all of the parts of our body, hopefully, in a way that immediately gives us another option rather than going into conflict in a kind of typically aggressive kind of way. And that gives us pause. It can it gives us an opportunity for pause. Right? When I saw you turn your neck and look around, that's when we can look around like, oh, there's more. We can start to connect. There's more here happening. I'm in this room. It's 12 o'clock. Right? The conflict moment doesn't become this humongous thing that's all encompassing. Gives us a moment to pause and feel into what is being asked of me. What is this other person experiencing? What do I maybe need in this moment? And that pause, I think a lot of harm reduction can happen in that pause to ourselves, to the other person. Right? And then there's then there's the whole rest of the protocol after that. But, yeah, I'm really passionate about this simple movement of leaning back a little bit, which yeah. There's someone who has been told that I can be super intense. I think has helped other people handle me and my intensity. If I could just sit back and communicate from that place. So that served me quite a lot. Must be hard trying to find Joanne Lockwood: the right angle of leaning back. If you're not careful, you communicate a kind of a not interested or whatever or you're boring me or I'm not taking you seriously. Whereas if you lean, as you say, lean too far forward, you're in threat mode, you're hyper engaged. It's just trying to find that that right spot for you, isn't it? So that you're attentive, not disrespectfully not bothered, if that makes sense. Sure. And I think that, like, freedom to Lorie Solis: adjust is important. Sometimes in conflict, we start to get really tense and rigid. So if I lean back and I realize, actually, that's not it either. I can I can sit back up, you know, or someone might say, like, are you not engaged based on what they perceive? Right? We can always be in the adjustment. I think that's part of our adaptability. Yeah. Right? It's being flexible in a moment when things start to feel more rigid. Can we do both? You know, I really call upon paradox in a way, like, urgency, moments of urgency. I think slowing down is a congruent response to urgency. Right? If there's a tension in the space, can I bring ease into my mind body so that I can hold that tension in a good way? I always try to, like, bring in in my mind body some balance based on what I'm perceiving. Okay. Something's tense. Let me ease up a little Joanne Lockwood: bit. I'm just going to What are you feeling about this? How are you feeling? I'm feeling good, actually. I feel my mind's popping all over the place. I'm thinking about all things we've just been talking about. I'm going to have to listen back to this episode in a minute. And if anyone's listening, please give it a rewind and have another look. Have another really great stuff going on here. Lorie, it's been amazing talking to you. We had 20 minutes in the green room beforehand as well. So we've spent a good hour and a half together. So it's just fantastic. How could people get a hold of you? I mean, I'm gonna check you out on LinkedIn straight away. You can come find me Lorie Solis: in the southwest corner of Portugal and come hang out with me in the woods at our place down here. You can find me online at claiming each other dot org or in my personal practice personal professional practice at somasantum.org as well. Yeah. And then the socials and the things, I'm on there. Joanne Lockwood: Fabulous. So you're Lori, l o r I e. Mhmm. And you're Solis, s o l I s. Solis, s o l I Lorie Solis: s. And, you know, we're opening the may I say something about the training? Yeah. Go for it. Yeah. Please do. Yeah. We've just opened the spring cohorts of the claiming each other somatic first aid training, which is starting in January. It's a 12 week training. It's been accredited by the complimentary medical association in the UK. There's 3 cohorts available, and we have 2 that are being delivered right now and in person here in Portugal and one online globally. It's going beautifully. So I invite anybody who's really curious about generative conflict in a way that, yeah, promotes resiliency and healing to to join us or to reach out if they're curious and wants want to know more about it. You asked me a question in the show Joanne Lockwood: notes. Have you heard about research that self identified conservatives were found to have enlarged amygdalas? What's the theory then to the when you hold these extreme views, you tend to have an heightened sense of fight, flight, and fear, reaction mechanisms, the amygdala kicks in? I note that this is what this the conclude Lorie Solis: this is what the conclusions are, right, of this research or the lines that they were drawing that people who have this kind of leaning in their ideology are maybe coming from a more external threat oriented place. And people with more, like, liberal or progressive views are they're activated with their insula in the brain, which is able to actually handle more complexity without the perception of external threat. So I was getting curious about this because I want to open my I want to open this work across the spectrum of peoples, and I find that maybe who's drawn to it? Maybe are more people who maybe are more left leaning already or maybe a bit, you know, left of center. And I really wanna reach more people. And that research gave me interesting insight from a somatic perspective. Right? When I study the nervous system, we we do nervous system study in the training. I think it's really important to be able to accurately assess in ourselves and then somebody else what is happening. And there's a lot of moralizing of people's emotional states, like looking down on fear and judging that. And I think it's really important to be respectful of of whatever people are experiencing and care about that. If somebody is afraid for something important about their values, about their own life, about something they care about, To be curious about that, I think, is very important in the process of coming into a place of good relationality and not escalating it and destroying everything. So it gave me just a, yeah, a moment of consideration for how I might speak to people or be with them without assuming that that's what everybody's experiencing, who has this purse you know, has these choices around their ideology. No need to assume. But it did make me curious, and I was wondering if you had, I don't know, what you felt about that. I'm now curious as well. I Joanne Lockwood: think, should we leave that with our our listeners? What do you think? Lorie would love to hear what you think about this. So yeah, let's, let us know. Do people with extreme views or have enlarged amygdala, a sense of justice, a sense of fight flight of fear, a sense of losing something, protectionism, whatever it may be. So, yeah, it's, love to hear from you. So, Lorie, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you. I really appreciate you. As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord, consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites, and become part of our ever growing community, driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family, and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, stories, or a vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seachangehappen.co.uk, and let's make your voice heard. Until next time. This is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire, and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.