--- title: "Wisdom On The School Run" episode: 129 date: 2024-10-10 guest: "Liv Maudsley" canonical: https://inclusionbites.co.uk/podcast/129-wisdom-on-the-school-run audio: https://cdn.seech.uk/podcast/episodes/ibs-129/audio.mp3 --- # Wisdom On The School Run Joanne Lockwood is joined by Liv Maudsley, co-host of The School Run podcast, for a wide-ranging conversation about growing up in a hyper-connected world and what it takes to stay grounded in it. Together they explore how different generations relate to social media, the pull of algorithms, and the difficulty of separating fact from opinion in an environment shaped by targeted content and misinformation. Liv shares her personal experience of deleting TikTok and Snapchat to be more present, and they discuss the social pressure to “fit in” online and the ways digital habits can become compulsive. The conversation broadens into sustainability and personal responsibility, including the practical confusion many people feel around recycling and mixed public messages about environmental action. A central part of the episode is Liv’s candid account of living with anorexia, how competitive sport and perfectionism contributed to her illness, and what recovery has looked like in practice—self-awareness, recognising triggers, and rebuilding a healthier relationship with her body and food. She reflects on how family support helped her through a difficult period, and why she now feels strongly about protecting young people from harmful messaging around body image. Listeners will come away with a thoughtful reflection on balancing digital engagement with wellbeing, the value of empathy across generations, and the importance of noticing the “why” behind people’s beliefs and behaviours. ## Chapters - 00:00 — Introduction and Welcome - 02:10 — Mother-daughter podcast, sharing wisdom and life stories. - 06:02 — Each generation faces unique challenges, social media. - 08:34 — Various content on social media affects us. - 10:56 — Watching wildlife reels on Facebook, craving normal. - 16:32 — Mindfulness, self development, diversity, inclusion, support. - 20:40 — Follow your passion, make the most of life. - 24:57 — Conscious of environment, need more education. - 26:21 — Lack of recycling awareness, now adapting. - 30:31 — Challenges of navigating different sources of news. - 32:57 — Passion stems from personal experiences and beliefs. - 37:25 — Struggled to eat, initially resistant, sought help. - 40:18 — Self-awareness is key to personal growth. - 45:04 — Recovery is possible. Overcoming challenges shapes us. - 47:22 — Overcoming fear, finding love for netball. - 50:33 — Embracing uncertainty, confident in values and skills. - 54:02 — Starting school podcast, domain secured, event postponed. - 59:10 — Express gratitude, join community, share, make impact. - 01:00:01 — Promoting inclusivity one episode at a time. ## Key takeaways - The addictive nature of social media and its algorithmic impact on daily life. - Challenges faced by younger generations regarding societal pressures, mental health, and body image. - The significance of family support and understanding in dealing with eating disorders. - The role of social media in communication and its potential to replace traditional gaming. - The importance of seeking information from various sources to form a well-rounded opinion. - Shifting attitudes towards environmental responsibility and the difficulties in discerning truth from misinformation. - The ongoing process of self-discovery, recovery, and finding joy in life amidst societal and personal challenges. ## FAQs ### What types of content did Liv Maudsley discuss on social media? Liv Maudsley examined various kinds of content found on social media, including educational material, funny posts, and personal life updates. ### How do Joanne and Liv feel about their dependence on mobile phones? Both Joanne and Liv acknowledged their addiction to their phones and discussed the algorithms and targeted advertising that curate the content they see, impacting their usage. ### How does Liv Maudsley use social media for communication? Liv noted that social media has replaced traditional gaming as a primary form of communication for many, particularly among younger generations. She highlighted concerns about the societal pressures experienced by the youth due to the pervasive visibility of their lives on these platforms. ### What personal experiences did Liv Maudsley share regarding her struggles with anorexia? Liv Maudsley opened up about her battle with anorexia, which stemmed from the pressures of excelling in competitive netball and a desire for perfection. She discussed her struggles with body image, societal pressures, an extreme fear of eating, and the lack of understanding and support she received during her recovery. ### Did Liv Maudsley mention any plans for her future? Liv Maudsley is uncertain about her post-A-level plans but expressed enjoyment in podcasting. She is considering a gap year before possibly attending university and plans to continue her podcast during this period. ### How does Liv Maudsley view the role of her mother in her life? Liv credits her mother for imparting valuable wisdom and life lessons, and this has deeply influenced her perspectives and decision-making processes. ## Transcript Joanne Lockwood: Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart of inclusion, belonging, and societal transformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world where everyone not only belongs but thrives? You're not alone. Join me as we uncover the unseen, challenge the status quo, and share stories that resonate deep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let's connect, reflect, and inspire action together. Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out to jo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk to share your insights while you join me on the show. So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time to ignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites. And today is episode 129 with the title Wisdom on the School Run, and I have the absolute honor and privilege to welcome Liv Maudsley. Liv is the cohost of the School Run podcast and a college student. When I asked Liv to describe her superpower, she said she would say she has the wisdom to look at all perspectives, and she loves to understand why someone has a certain opinion or belief or feels a certain way. Hello, Liv. Welcome to the show. Oh, hi. Thanks for Liv Maudsley: having me. Absolute pleasure. I I'm pretty Joanne Lockwood: sure you hold the record for being my youngest guest. Liv Maudsley: Oh, yeah. I like that. And I was Joanne Lockwood: the I have the privilege of being invited onto your school run podcast just recently. So Yeah. Yeah. How does it feel to be in the other other seat, you know, in the as a guest? It feels really Liv Maudsley: a bit out of control. Usually, I'm the 1, you know, asking the questions, but, you know, the tables have turned a little bit. Excellent. I'm looking forward to this. So Joanne Lockwood: we call this episode Wisdom on the School Run. The School Run is the name of your podcast that you run cohost with your was it your mom that you run it with? Yeah. So tell me more about Wisdom on the School Run and your perspective around understanding other people's beliefs. So tell me more. So, yeah, Wisdom on the School Run. Liv Maudsley: So that's mine and my mum's podcast, which we started last year in February. And it kind of all started because I had a really long journey to school. So it was an hour and a half then, hour and a half back. And me and my mum, you know, once a week, twice a week, we always used to have a really insightful conversation, I'd tell her something that was going on at school. And she'd give me her wisdom that she has, you know, obviously got over time and through being a CEO. And I'd also give her my wisdom as, you know, being 17, what I could try and give from my perspective. And so we thought, why not put it onto a podcast and bring guests on, and then they can share their life story and their wisdom to try and help people to see things from a different perspective. So yeah. Joanne Lockwood: From your perspective, obviously, what do you see as some of the the key differences in the way people see the world from a someone maybe your age under 20 compared with someone who's over 40, over 50? What what's the key differences you think? I think my generation or Liv Maudsley: maybe, you know, me personally, I think we've had a lot more there's been a lot more education, a lot more awareness around more topics that I would say maybe, like, my grandma, or my mom didn't have when they were at school. However, my grandma, I really love her. I think she's she's like unique in a generation. She really loves to understand the younger generation and and kinda what makes them tick as well, which I really love. She's not stuck in her ways or or very traditional. She really wants to understand, which I think is really, really lucky. And in terms of, you know, inclusion, diversity, and a lot of things, our generation, my generation can be it's it's difficult with social media. I think it's a great thing, great for education. However, there's also a lot of judgment and a lot of people putting out their opinions and people judging them on that, and that's, I guess, a challenge that older generations haven't really had with social media before. Yeah. I grew up. I mean, I was born Joanne Lockwood: in 1965. That's a a lifetime ago for me, but, you know, a distant memory. Not not not even a memory for you. Probably not far off the same age as your grandma, I guess. Jo, yeah, I mean, we had no Internet. We had no mobile phones. When we were out, we were out. We were gone. There's nothing no way of tracking us down. My mom would phone around all my friends seeing if I was there, and we Jo, there's no there's no GPS tracking. There's no nothing. Yeah. You you turn up at 10 o'clock at night late by 3 hours for your tea, and my mom will be on the doorstep, wagging her finger at you, wondering where you've been. Jo, yeah, it's it's different. Yeah. People know where you are. People know what you're doing. They know what you have for breakfast now, don't they? Because you're you're sharing it all the time. Must must be a a real challenge, you know, being a teenager or being a young person, having that much visibility on your life by not just your parents, but but the world. Yeah. But every I mean, Liv Maudsley: I think every generation, you know, we all have our different challenges and things that my grandma would have experienced or my great grandma I could have never imagined and and vice versa the same way. So I would I don't think I'd ever say you know 1 generation's had it easier than the other or someone struggling more than the other because I think, you know, we've all had our different experiences. But with social media is you you really see every bit of someone's life. And I for me, I had TikTok and and Snapchat, and I don't have TikTok anymore. I don't have Snapchat either because I'm not kind of like a social media person. Very much, I spend a lot of my time with my family, friends. I love kind of human contact and and conversations. I'm not and I could feel myself when I had TikTok. I probably got it to feel part of everyone, part of the trend. Everyone's got TikTok. Everyone's on it. So that's probably why I got it to fit in. And then but I could feel myself at night scrolling and scrolling for hours and hours and hours and I just didn't for me I just didn't like that. I didn't like how I'd wake up then really tired and how it was just unproductive use of my time. So I was like, I'm just gonna delete it, and I'm gonna delete Snapchat too. And that was where a lot of my friends messaged. So I did feel, oh, what if I'm gonna miss out? What if they're gonna, you know, get an inside joke and then they're gonna say it at school and I'm not gonna get it? But I thought, do you know what? For me, I don't wanna be on Snapchat and TikTok all the time. I wanna be in the present and and live now. So that's kind of why I got rid of those things. So for someone like myself, I I Joanne Lockwood: the way I use TikTok is I I post clips of my podcast, other little things on there. I very rarely spend any time watching anybody else. And I'm my Snapchat use is I use the filters sometimes. I use Bitmoji, and I think you have to log on to get Bitmoji through Snapchat. So that's I'm a very kind of casual user. So what what is it about those platforms that is so addictive to people that consumes all this time? What do they give you? I'm not sure. It's Liv Maudsley: obviously, on there, you've got a lot of different content that people post. Some of it, for me, on my Instagram, it's a lot of educational content, and I learn a lot of things from it, which I think is 1 of the reasons why it's so good. And obviously, you've got content that's funny and also content into people's lives. And I feel like for everyone, maybe it's it's different. Some for some people, I know that some of my friends, their phone is like an escape from the real world And they think, well, TikTok, I can look into someone else's life and and I'd I can get out of my life for a while. And I have heard that's how some of my friends view it, which I've never seen it that way before, I would go around and I'd say, oh, you're on your phone all the time, like a parent, and say, get off your phone or stop being antisocial. And then when 1 of my friends said that to me, I was like, that's really interesting. Imagine really not wanting to be in your life so much that you spend all your time looking at someone else's life. Yeah. I I Joanne Lockwood: find myself picking my phone up too much. You know? It and I found myself I was at a conference and and they had fidget toys on the table. And I picked up a fidget toy, and I was playing with this fidget toy. And then after at the end of the day, I realized that I hadn't picked my phone up, because it was somehow something I needed to play with some stim to stimulate me, but my brain was needing to do something. It's a bit like stimming, I guess, a bit something like that. But I was playing these fidget toys, and it allowed me to put my phone down. So I recognized that I am kind of addicted to to touching the phone, being near it, playing with it, absorbing something from it. And I need to distract my brain in a different way. So I Joanne imagine how you're sitting there at night, your doom is scrolling, you're flicking through, you're flicking through, you're flicking through. 6 seconds, nah, nah. Oh, yeah. Right. This 1. Yeah. Nah. And, yeah, it just keeps feeding the beast, doesn't it? It knows what you like, knows what you don't like. And it and then it just becomes a Liv Maudsley: habit. And I know sometimes I'll be out somewhere and I'll, like, put my hand in my pocket just through habit that my phone's there, and I'm thinking, where's my phone? You know, it's usually in that pocket. And I was like, woah. I can tell I'm I'm addicted to my phone a little bit. Yeah. Joanne Lockwood: I I started watching a few reel I I still watch reels on Facebook, and I think I clicked on a it's a was it a Pac Joanne bullfrog? And it's basically frogs eating other frogs or frogs eating insects or insect versus in and suddenly my feet is full of this insect wars and and frog wars. It's like, go away. I wanna see something. Then I find myself getting lions eating things. It's like so now I've got all these wildlife adventures going on. It's like they're eating stuff. It's like Jo, no, go away. I want to go back to something normal. It's like it's crazy how the algorithm gets you, isn't it? It it detects what you've liked. It detects what you've watched. And then suddenly I'm seeing this stuff that I was only I was only casually browsing. It's like, no. Thank you. Enough now. Liv Maudsley: Yeah. And and then you just watch 1 video for however long, and then suddenly, all your videos are about that thing and how your phone listens to you as well which I think is crazy. I was having a conversation with my mum about you know me driving and taking my driving test. Next minute I look on my phone, I've got adverts for driving instructors, and and I was like, woah, that's crazy. And Joanne Lockwood: they all claim they don't do that, but they do it. And there's there's too much coincidence. You know? Mhmm. I'm a sometimes, you know, we have biases that will make us think that it's random and or, you know, random things happen, but I've seen too many examples. My wife, Marie, we've talked about something and all of a sudden it pops up on her phone. It's like, how did that happen? Yeah. It's like, yeah, completely random. So, yeah, there's there's something going on or it'd be entirely something. The only thing I thought about maybe is if I go onto it with my phone, something tracks my IP address. And when Marie connects on her phone through the Wi Fi, it's using the same IP address. So maybe it's feeding it based on an IP address. Yeah. That's the only other that's the only other theory I Joanne think of because it it thinks you're the same person, and, the the the tracking cookies maybe hook it up that way. I I don't know. I've I've never got to the bottom of it, but you're right. Something is listening. Something is definitely listening. So the I I said the older generation. Yeah. The millennials, you know, my my our 2 children are millennials, and they grew up in a world where, you know, the time waster was games. Yeah. Not maybe on the phone, but console games. My my son had a PlayStation Portable. You know, in fact, every every portable gaming device he has, and he he plays them in different things. I'll play that on that. I'll play that on that. I was like, really? I can't I can't handle 1 device. So do you find that things like TikTok and Reels and Insta and those sort of things have replaced the gaming thing, or do you think there's still there's not only that and the gaming goes on? I think I'm not sure. I Liv Maudsley: don't have an Xbox or anything, but I know it's still you know, my half brother still has an Xbox and my cousins have Xboxes. I think it's still for for younger children who may be like on on social media yet, I think it's still big. But then I feel like by the time you hit maybe high school or or college, it's then a huge thing, you know, to have Snapchat, to have Instagram. And that's people's main form of communication now, Snapchat for me, because I don't have it. It's WhatsApp. And people actually find it really weird if I meet someone new and they say, oh Joanne I be Snapchat? And I'm like, oh I don't have it. And they think, first, they think my mum's really strict and won't let me have it. And they can't get their their head around the fact that I just I had it, and then I deleted it being just because I didn't want it. It's quite funny to see people's reactions when you say, no. I don't have Snapchat. You'll have to take my number instead. Yeah. Joanne Lockwood: So I I suppose I'm AAA Facebook generation. I'll I use Facebook Messenger and WhatsApp. Yeah. I wouldn't venture on Snapchat or even as I say, I use TikTok more of a as a outbound marketing rather than inbound, and they'll consume me that way. So what what the issues do you perceive for your generation? I'm not saying the entire world of your generation, but your your circle of friends. What what are the big issues that you're worried about in society, in for the planet, for the workplace? What do you what do what do people your generation care about the most? I think Liv Maudsley: we're very heavy, our generation, on 1, mental health and 2, diversity diversity and inclusion. I think they're both 2 very hue and and the planet and sustainability. I think those 3, I would say, are kind of the main 3 in our generation. With we've had a lot more at high school, you have a lot more education on it. For me, I I feel like there's a line somewhere. I don't know where it is. But with mental health, I think our generation has not everyone has come a bit, and that might be due to social media, That anything someone says can be perceived as offended or or someone can be offended by something. And then you're in this situation where anything that you say, whether it's to your friends or you post it on Facebook, Instagram, or whatever, is gonna get judged and is gonna get someone's gonna interpret it as attacking someone or, you know, something like that. And for me, I've done a few courses on mindfulness and and self development, which taught me kind of it's people project out what's going on for them. So it's not necessarily that someone's offending you or or attacking you in any way, But maybe something's going on for them, and they that's how they're just expressing how they feel. And I think diversity and inclusion is the same. At my high school, obviously a big thing. And I had a few friends that that transition from 1 of my best friends, is gay, and, another 1 of our friends in that friendship group changed from female to male. And I for me, I support anyone because I think your life is your life and you live it the way you feel most comfortable to live it. Not dependent on what other people think about you or anything like that, but how you feel most comfortable. And I understand that maybe at my age, teenagers, a lot of kind of figuring out who you are, a lot of discovery, and maybe that is like some experimentation and not knowing who you are and trying different things to understand who you are as a person. But I also I've seen on TikTok when I had it, is it kind of almost becoming a trend, which I really don't like to say, because I really hope that it's not a trend of and I don't know whether it's, it's people feel like they have to do it for attention to fit in. I'm not sure. And I'm not saying it's it's right or wrong. But I think it can take away from those people who genuinely feel, you know, if they're transitioning or if they're gay or if they genuinely feel that something about them is is not right. And, yeah, from my generation, that's how it's it seems for me, which might be different to you because I'm sure it what is not a trend. But, yeah, that's I think those issues, it's just how we teach children and and in education in schools a different way of looking at it, if that makes sense. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. I I mean, I grew up in an era where self awareness, self reflection, understanding who you are, what your ambitions are, what makes you happy, what makes you sad, it just wasn't really part of life. You you you were a child, you you you were brainy, you were you were artistic, you had you were characterized more by what you did and what career you took, but you never self analyzed. You just ended up falling into what you were good at, not what made you happy, not what made it give you passion. That's how I ended up doing electronics because my mum thought I was good at electronics, but really my passion was photography. I never never explored it. So, yeah, we never really talked about feelings or or needs in that way. We were just waiting for the school bell. We'd go and play in the park and, and disappear for a couple of hours, get on our bikes, cycle home. So, yeah, I think I think today, there's more awareness of of of who who we are as individuals, aren't we? Not not just around our our gender or sexuality, but also culturally, what matters to us, doesn't it? I think that's I think I think it's wonderful. I think it's amazing that we're now We're taking time to figure ourselves out rather than waiting till we're in our forties and going, I've been doing this life for 40 years now, and I I should've I should've stopped years ago and had another go at it. Yeah. Yeah. You you've I'm sure you're you feel far more empowered to say, no. That's not working for me. I'm gonna just say different now. Liv Maudsley: Yeah. I think I think, yeah, that's how I I feel. And I think for me, I've been really lucky because my mum, especially, and my family are all very supportive of do what you love, You know? Do what you're passionate about. Whether whether you're good at it or not, do what you love because because then the the drive to work hard, the drive to push through and carry on will will come from passion and love for what you're doing. So I've been really lucky in that sense that I've had that instilled in me from a very young age. So naturally then when my friends are saying, you know, my mum, she wants me to do this and she wants me to go to uni and she wants me to get this job, I always chat to them and I say, yeah, but what do you want to do? Like, this is your life, you know, it's not it's not your mum's, it's not your dad's, it's not your carers, it's not anyone else's, it's yours and you need to spend the time that you have, which as humans is quite sure, the time that you have doing something that you really, really enjoy to make the most out of your life. But Joanne Lockwood: here in the media, old people, from your perspective, old people, So we've become far too woke as a society where we're pandering to the minorities. We're we're giving you these minority voices too much and we be going back to old traditional values and just get on with stuff. What's the feeling that you get from listening to that kind of stuff coming back at you if you like? Liv Maudsley: I think because each of our generations have has grown up very differently and we've all got different morals, different things that we're passionate about based on, you know, the experiences that we've lived. You know, for me, I can't say anything how I feel on, like, a world war because I've never experienced 1. So I don't know what it is like to go to war or to to live in that situation. So therefore, I can't say if someone's done something in a right or wrong way because I wouldn't know. I just think I can understand from from older generations looking at us. I hear a lot that we're, you know, the snowflake generation and we're very maybe because we're so we really wanna help the planet and diversity and inclusion, and that's not been traditional because older generations haven't had the education or or awareness of that. I don't think either 1 is right or wrong. I just think they can see we we don't wanna be dividing us by, you know, what we believe and our opinions, and I don't think it's right to say you're right and I'm wrong. I'm right and you're wrong because then we're never gonna live, you know, together as 1. There's always gonna be, you know, clashes and people not liking things. So I think it's important to understand that us as a as a younger generation, just respect for for our old generations and an understanding that, you know, not to judge them by by what they say or what they're calling us because their experience is different. And to understand they have the right to that opinion, you know, whether we like it or not, they're gonna say what they're gonna say and that's absolutely fine. And the same for the older generation, even though we are younger and we may be doing things a little bit differently, But just the mutual respect for all of us so that we can live, you know, more united as a as a country as a world and less conflict and less, you know, wars and and yeah, I think it's important. So you mentioned the Joanne Lockwood: planet. Do you think the planet will last long enough for you to grow up and enjoy it? It's an interesting Liv Maudsley: question for me. I I've not compared to my generation, I would say, the planet isn't obviously, I I care about the planet. However, I don't have haven't had that much education. You obviously hear things on the news and and everywhere. It's hard to know what's true, what's not true, you know, what to believe. I think I do A level economics and we have been talking about obviously sustainability and, you know electric cars and and all those things and I think it's important that we understand not to take the world for granted now because the things that we we have in this world and the amazing nature and the land that we have, which you know is getting built over with houses, you know, which is which is obviously needed for people that don't have homes. But I do sometimes look at the nature and think like look how amazing this is and we're not doing much to help it right now. And it's so beautiful, and we should be super, super grateful for the world that we live in and for the for the things that we have which people before us haven't had. No. It Joanne Lockwood: was when I when I was growing up and all my life until probably the last 4 or 5 years, it was never on the agenda, never big enough. You know? Recycling and things like that have started to become more more obvious. We have different kind of bins we put inside the house where we're encouraged to put 1 in the other and presift and presort and rinse our milk bottles out. Well, milk comes out before we put them in a cycling list. To to me, that's kind of an alien thing. It's kind of I've had to relearn. But you're growing in a world where that that's kind of the normal, isn't it? That's our daughter. She has all the recycling in different color bins in her kitchen. If I'm if I'm a bit confused, I'll just put it into general and don't worry about it. Yeah. I I Liv Maudsley: wanna I wanna oh, go on. I was just saying, I Joanne Lockwood: I don't I don't understand all the different labels. I I haven't put enough time and effort into understanding what is, what isn't. I I know that often the plastic lid or the or the plastic that you peel off of AAA ready meal or something, the plastic lid generally isn't recyclable, but the base is. I kind of ask my rule. If if it if I rip it off, it's generally not recyclable. If it's the base, then it generally is. That's that's kind of how I do it, as a Yeah. Liv Maudsley: I was gonna say the same thing. When I'm at college, you've got 2 different bins, and I'm thinking, what is general waste and what's recyclable? And what I don't know which bit of this is recyclable. Joanne Lockwood: Yeah. And I was hoping Lockwood be an expert on it. Is that is that yeah. Which, unfortunately, I'm not. Well, that that just highlights though the challenge we have if we're gonna build this kind of mentality into our onto our psyche, isn't it? It's it's how do we get people to take responsibility and true responsibility for the planet, for environment, for recyclable. Because, yeah, the government was backtracking on electric vehicles. So, oh, no. We can't do 2030. It's too tricky. We'll push it back to 2040 or something and think, hang on a minute. If it's important for 2030, why are we pushing it back? Is it is it difficult? Liv Maudsley: And I feel like it's difficult then. It's kind of like mixed messages then. And I know my stepdad is very into his cars, very into his cars. And he's also a firefighter. And he has a love hate relationship with electric cars because when an electric car sets on fire, it's impossible to put it out. Like, you can't it just burns and burns and burns and burns. And he went to a fire, and it was an electric car, and just you just can't put 1 out. Joanne Lockwood: Now the lithium creates a chain reaction, doesn't it? And it becomes like a self sustaining I mean, I remember physics at school, and they used to drop sodium and that into into water, and you'd see it race around around. Lithium is kind of it comes up with it, you got platinum and other thing and other other ions. And lithium's higher up the scale, so you drop that in water. Liv Maudsley: Bang. Yeah. It it creates AAA big explosion. So, yeah, Joanne Lockwood: it is. So, yeah, I I can understand that they are dangerous. And Yeah. At least for the petro fire, you can kind of put a petro fire out. Yeah. But, yeah, lithium. It's Liv Maudsley: again that use of as much as electric cars are better for the environment, and I know it it'll be a small amount that's set on fire, but obviously then that use the public services on a lot of resources go into putting out a fire of an electric car, which, you know, can't be put out. Yeah. I I guess we Joanne Lockwood: gotta adapt to play catch up with new technology and how we deal with it. It's a bit like we have we had to come to terms with overuse of mobile phones, overuse of Internet, overuse of this. We've we've had the processes and policies catch up later, don't they? And, you know, So you said earlier about trying to filter out what's true and not true. It's really interesting when you you picked up on that. How how do you judge what is true, what is not true? What is Joanne opinion? What is a perspective? And what is a fact? What tools do you use to do that? It's it's Liv Maudsley: difficult and for me doing economics obviously a lot about I think I'm the only student in that class that doesn't watch the news. Because for me, I never know what is, what to believe, what's not, what's slanted, what isn't. And I think it's really, really difficult. And you can understand why a lot of us have so many different beliefs, because it's dependent on like so many different things. How you've been brought up, what your parents believe, what their opinions are, also what who you spend your time with, and what you watch on TV, on your phone, all these things. Like I know a lot of my friends now, they get the news from TikTok. And you think how much of that news is is real news? And how much is, you know, just fake, all fake news? And I think it's really difficult to know the difference. And for me I just I guess I'm always cautious. If I hear something that someone said, I won't believe it until I've, you know, looked at it myself or understood where it's come from. I won't make an opinion there and then. I'm pretty much like the same of that with people. If someone said, oh, she's really horrible or he's really whatever, I'm always like, I'll never say, oh yeah, I agree with you, I agree with you. Because for me, you know, we're all individual and I'll, when I meet you, I'll I'll get to understand who you are. I won't just take someone else's word for it. So I kind of use that in whatever I hear just to be a bit cautious and understand, hey. It might not be true. It might it might be true. Yeah. I Joanne Lockwood: think for me, that's that's fundamentally it's it's recognizing as I think exactly as you said about why someone thinks something, you know. Is it their their parents, their their environment, their history, their politics, whatever it may be. And it's trying to find the why, isn't it? Tell me why you believe something, and then I can try and figure out if I agree with you or what I disagree with. Because we we often get clash our heads around the belief Yeah. Not the not the why. The why. Because if I can understand why you think something, I don't have to agree with you. But I understand why, and then we can we can be friends because your your why is different to my why. That's fine. Yeah, so like for me I Liv Maudsley: also think when you see someone that's really passionate about something or has a really strong belief, I always think, like you said, you've got a reason. There must be some reason why they're so passionate about that. Like for me, I had anorexia for 2 years, and I'm very passionate about, you know, eating disorders and very around food. And I have a lot of younger cousins and I always whenever, you know, my auntie or whoever will say, you know, chocolate's bad for you or, you know, don't eat too much of that. Jo, you have to go for a run before you can eat that. Like, for me, I won't say anything, but inside, because that's something personally that I've experienced, I then feel very strongly and passionately towards, towards situations like that. So for someone else, when I see that they're really passionate about something, I think, okay, there's something that maybe they've experienced being through sin that's made them really strongly believe that. And understanding, like you said, why that is. It's alright if you don't agree with it or whether you do, but just to know because then you don't have to say actually you're wrong. Because it's kind of I guess invalidating how they feel or their experience that they've had. You mind if I ask you about your Joanne Lockwood: anorexia? Yeah, sure. So I I Liv Maudsley: think it was around I was in year 10. I just I just started the summer before year 10, which was maybe 20 21, I think. And I played very high level netball, so very competitive sport. I played for the county. I played for 1 of the best teams in the country. I'm a very competitive person and, you know, at the time, quite a perfectionist as well. And I would I really wanted I joined this new team, and I really wanted to do really, really well. And all the girls that were in the team all lived in the same place, all knew each other, and I didn't. So I was like, I wanna fit in. None of them were talking to me, and they'd all been there for so long that I really needed to be really good for my coaches and say, look, I am a really good player. So I and that kind of perfectionist competitive in me took me the other way. So I would get up at like half 2 and, and come downstairs really quietly, so like my mum or stepdad didn't know. And I'd train from, like, 3 till 6. I'd go to school, and then I'd come back and I'd train from 5 till 7 and then have my tea in 8 till 9 every single day. So I was so just depleted, and I was literally going crazy just wanting to do so well. And then I thought I can't can't do this anymore. Like, I'm so exhausted. So I gave up Netball and for a week I felt kind of free. Oh my gosh, I don't have to, you know, wake up at 3 AM anymore. But then after that it started, it kind of all went downhill. And I'd kind of never seen you know, my body what it looks like before as anything other than performance based. Because for me, I just wanted to perform well And with the netball, you know, you have a lot of muscles, very explosive. So then I kept looking in the mirror and I just kept seeing like this muscle fat, and I was like, I need to get rid of it. Like, I just I don't need it anymore. Like, I'm not playing Netball. So then it slowly started and feeding into everything you hear from social media, you know, don't eat carbs, don't do this. Well, stopped eating potatoes, and I started having just coffee for my breakfast and going to the gym and running on a treadmill for, like, 2 hours. And then it got really really really bad and obviously like my mom was really worried about me and she took me to the doctor And they said, come back in we they weighed me and said, come back in a week. And then, you know, we'll see. I don't think they took it that seriously. And I came back the week after, and I lost a stone in a week because I literally I was I was scared. I was physically scared to eat. And my mom, she was like, come on, babe, you know, you you have to. Like, she was trying so hard and I was just like, Jo, I was scared of water because anything that made me feel full I was, I was scared of. I don't want to. And it got really bad and I went to see an eating disorders from the NHS. And I always I'll always remember this, what he first said to me because it really from the moment on I didn't I didn't like him, and I never listened to anything that he said. He said I looked at you and I wasn't worried, And then I looked at you stats and I was worried. And I thought, for me, in my head always I'd felt not sick enough to get help, not ill enough. And I've just come in and you've said, you you looked at me and you're not worried. So that's just made me think, oh, so I'm not good enough to get help. I'm not sick enough for you to help me because I look fine. And it just it just snowballed. It got worse, and I was a week from being admitted to hospital. And I got COVID, and COVID actually kinda saved me in a way because I I couldn't go to the appointment. I had to stay at home and and start eating. And I think people tend to think that when you've had I think it's a very touchy subject. People don't really like talking about it. I was embarrassed about it for a really long time. People think you're some sort of freak. You're crazy. Like, why? And they think food is the problem or she just she just must hate food. And that's like, I love food. Like, if you if you picked me in a lineup, you'd think, well, never, because she loves food. And that's never really the problem. It's something around that, like the control to need to control something in your life or or trauma or or something. And I'm competitive and and it and it kind of stemmed from that. And then people think it's a linear journey to recovery. It's definitely not. It's it's up and down. It's up and down. And and finally now I'm getting to kind of a place where I think, do you know what? Like this the body that I have, it's been with me through a lot, and it's kept me alive even though, you know, I didn't want it to be. And I've got it forever, and I need to, you know, nurture it and cherish it because I'm never gonna get another 1. So I think that's why I'm super passionate about about it. Do you Joanne Lockwood: still do you look back at that time, and do you understand if you analyze yourself or what you went through? Do do you understand enough so that you you can trust yourself not to go back? Yeah. I think that is the hardest part. Liv Maudsley: I think for I think for a lot of people when they've been through something and come out of it, the last thing they wanna do is go back, into it and experience all the things that they've already experienced once mentally. For me, that was really important because I needed to see why, you know, I learned a lot about myself through that. I also learned what my pitfalls pitfalls are, what can tip me back a little bit, what can make me think. You know, naturally, if I'm stressed or something, my tendency now is to eat less just from what I've been through, and I can catch myself in that now. And I understand that about myself. And I think that's the most important thing, like being self aware of who you are to, you know, be a better person and be better for yourself and to live your life as well as you can do. And I think it's, yeah, it's important to analyze not too much that you you trigger yourself again, but to look and think why and how I move on from it, I think is important. It must have Joanne Lockwood: not only been stressful for you, but also stressful for your family to feel that sense of powerlessness, to see you wasting away whatever reacting the way you did. And that feeling of hopelessness. They can't fix you. They can't make you better. They can't even snap you out of it even. Yeah. It's it's scary for my mom especially. Liv Maudsley: Obviously, when you've got children, you wanna protect them, you know, you love them. And when you you see your child kind of wasting away and not caring or doing anything about it is is scary. And she really tried to do everything she possibly could and my whole family. And when when you've got an eating disorder, I can't talk to any other ones because I'm hard atorex. You've got it's like 2 people in your head, and you've got this like 1 person talking to you like constantly saying, you know, you you can't eat that, you know, go for a run, you're not good enough. And that's kind of the person that then your family's interacting with. It's not actually you, it's kind of like someone else and it you're completely different from who you usually are. And it was so difficult. And I love my family so much, and I wouldn't wanna hurt them, and I don't wanna make them upset. And my mom was obviously so upset at that time, which I kind of felt even worse about. I was like, I feel so bad that I'm, you know, making this so difficult for you. But I think I'm so lucky that I had that support because if I didn't, I think it would have been completely different. And my family really really fought for me, fought for me not to go into hospital because they they wanted me to stay at home. And I think I'm just so lucky to have them. And, yeah, I'm just lucky. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I Joanne Lockwood: I've met your mom. She's she's an amazing person. So we were talking just before we came on air about I'm off to the cinema after discussing Inside Out 2. Yeah. As you were speaking around how you had these 2 characters in your head, the ones communicating with the outside, the ones sort of, like, in the inside, I used to think about my life in those sort of terms as well where I had these and then when I saw the film Inside Out, the first 1, I suddenly went, that's exactly it. That little red angry person is what's running my running my mind. And then what you have to do is you have to put the little red angry person into the chairs, settle them down, and then joy comes out, and then the world's a better place. And I really felt that difference where I understood all the little characters in my head, who was driving me, who was controlling me, and which 1 I actually wanted to do the drive. And and the character in Inside Out is Jo. And III realized that that was the character that always should have been in control of me, but I let the angry 1 or let the other 1 or let, yeah, let the other ones take over. The sudden realization about those characters and how I was communicating and how I was acting was a a real wake up call for me. I think it sounds like the same. You had this Yeah. Different different people in your head here. 1 1 of them hacked through the control unit and you're going, no. No. No. The other 1 should be driving, not not you. Liv Maudsley: Yeah. And and kind of when kind of like the angry 1 is Jo, you know driving you so much it kind of like the joy gets smaller and smaller and smaller and quieter and quieter. And I think for me peep- people say you can never fully recover from an eating disorder, you know, it's impossible, you can't do it. And I, whether that's right or wrong, I choose not to believe it because I think, do you know what? I can fully recover because this is I'm not gonna let this, you know, take over my life completely because it it has done once and it's not going to again, and I make that decision for myself. And I think each of our experiences and people go through a lot of things in life. And each of our experiences teach us something and teach us something about ourselves to then help us for something later on. And I always think, you know, everything happens for a reason. What is meant to be will be. And I always say, Jo, I think that happened for a reason because now I can openly talk about and try and help people as much as I Joanne. Help my younger cousins, friends, because I have the I'm able to empathise with that now and and on really understand why, which maybe other people might not. But I think you should always try and run with with joy in the forefront of your head. I think it's I think it's super important because life's too short to always be angry, always be upset. You know? Life is about living and and enjoying it. So I agree. Yeah. Fantastic. Going back to what Joanne Lockwood: we're talking about earlier, this this this true, not true, this true, false, this information, and and I guess you have been in a situation where you were telling yourself an an untruth and and and reinforcing it without stepping back and going, why do I think that? And Yeah. It sounds like the recovery was all around self analysis, understanding the lie you were telling yourself Yeah. And setting yourself up for a way that's, that isn't bringing you joy. So yeah. Do do you still play Netball now? Do you go back and Yeah. I I was Liv Maudsley: the college captain, 1st year captain of my team. First time I ever went back to Netball in September last year and I was I was really scared, I was really scared of myself. Obviously then I had knee surgery Jo I kind of again had another little break, But I think I put so much pressure on myself the first time I played netball, I learned from that and I thought do you know what I started off playing netball because I loved it and and that love went away. And I had that time off, and I've come back, and I love it even more than ever now because I think I don't need to put pressure on myself. I don't need to be the best 1 at college. I don't need to win every match. I don't need to, you know, because I just love to play it and that's what it should be about. If you're falling out of love with something, then take a break or think, well, why am I falling out of love with something? Because the reason I started was because I loved it. And, you know, sometimes you just wanna get back to, I just wanna love it again. So sometimes taking a little break can can help that. What position do you play? I, I started off as a shooter and then got told I was too short to be a shooter. So now I'm in defence like my auntie. So she's very happy. She converted me into a defender. Joanne Lockwood: Our daughter played netball. She used to represent her school. I don't think she ever got to county, but she I think she played with the guides for a fair bit. And she used to do some she used to captain a couple of teams. And I think she was in gold gold defense as well. So she was even though she's relatively tall, I think she she was always more comfortable in defense. So yeah. No. She's we're often driving around the town. She said, I used to play netball there. I remember we played that school. We played that school, and it's sort of like yeah. Yeah. She remembers them all. But, yeah, it was it was a big part of her life, and she still talks very very warmly about her Netball memories. A lot of us a lot of her friends that she'd meet met and really keeps in touch with now her bridesmaids at the wedding were all netball teammates and things. So, yeah, she's really passionate about it. That's lovely. So you're 17 years old. Yeah. You're doing you're doing economics a level. Is that right? Yeah. Where where are you heading? Yeah. You're you're fantastically articulate. You've got a lot of lot of, I don't know, wisdom in your shoulders. Where does where does the world where do you fit in the world? What what what's gonna bring you joy in the future? At Liv Maudsley: this point right now, I'm not sure. The the podcast brings me joy. I love talking to people. I love trying to help people. So I really wanna, you know, give that my time and energy and see where it can go because I think it's because I just love to do it. I think after my a levels, gonna take a gap year maybe. I'm going to look at some universities this weekend and a few weekends after, you know, to see what it's like. But I'm not sure completely anything specific. I'm not like, yeah. Do you know what? I wanna be a doctor or I wanna be a vet or anything like that. I just think, you know, what's gonna happen is gonna happen and I'll end up in the right place because for me as a person the important things is that you know who you are and what your values are and what your morals are, not necessarily, you know, what you want to be because I think then your morals can drive you in whatever you decide to do. You know, for me, I know that I'm a hard worker and I know that I'm determined, so I know that whatever I end up doing, I'll do it to the best of my ability. And I'm just excited for the unknown, you know? Who knows what's gonna happen tomorrow, but I think that's quite an exciting thing. I Joanne Lockwood: love that. I love that. I I spent a lot of my my life having it mapped out. Not not forced on me, but expectations were set. And I was on this path and on this road, and it was kind of like the destination was all. And I I had the opportunity or the luxury or the privilege to be able to step off and Jo, hang on a minute. I don't wanna go there. I want to say different. I'm not not comfortable in who I am. Let's figure this out. So for you to have that self awareness at your age now to say, doesn't matter. Let me figure it out. I'm I'm I'm I know I'm clever. I know I can do stuff. I know I work hard. I know I'm determined. And whatever I wanna do, I'll know I'll be good at it. That's a that's a really fantastic outlook on life, and you don't need to decide. I'm quite envious of you in your youth, having all that opportunity ahead of you to just as I Jo with my daughter, you know, I I spend my life winking it at the moment. You know? I don't have to have a plan beyond beyond what I'm doing next. As long as I know what I'm doing next, I don't care what's happening next week or next month or next year. People say, do you wanna book a holiday? I go, holiday. When do you think about it? 6 months' time. I said, can we wait till the day before, please? I I might have what I wanna do then. Yeah. I don't like to have it. I don't like to have my life life mapped out. It's it's too constraining, isn't it? It is. Liv Maudsley: Yeah. But I guess for for some people, that's, you know, how they like it. They like to know the next steps, and I think both ways are, you know, equally good just depending on who you are. And for me, how I've been brought with my mom, which I, you know, won't stop talking about because she's she's always been there for me, you know, since I was little, and she's taught me. A lot of the wisdom I have is definitely from her, and I'm just lucky that, you know, I've got her, and she's she's always there to give me good advice. Maybe not necessarily what I wanna hear, but what I need to hear. And, yeah, and who knows what's gonna happen, and it'll be exciting either way. It will be. Yeah. I can't I'd Joanne Lockwood: love to keep in touch and see see where you Jo. But, yeah, it's fascinating. And you've got some great skills. You know, the wisdom, the way you see the world, your ability to connect with people, the ability to talk, the ability to be interested in people. That's I think that's half the battle. Yeah. Actually interested in other people, their perspectives, and finding out more. I think we we lack that sometimes in the humanity. We we're too busy caught in our own world not thinking about the others. I think all those skills you have are absolutely fantastic and whatever you do, you'll succeed at. And, Oh, thank you. Yeah. So yeah. So the what's what's what's next for the school run post, podcast? You you've been doing a year and a half. You're gonna carry on doing that through through college or university? Yeah. I'm gonna Liv Maudsley: carry my school on podcast. We've just got our domain name for our website, which is super exciting. We were supposed to have an event this year, but because of my surgeries, we're gonna push it to next year. And I'm gonna continue to through my a levels. Can't give it the time that I want to because, obviously, revising. But after that, for me, it's always, like, whatever I do, who knows what would happen if you didn't give it everything that you've got. So whatever happens with it, for me, as long as I know I gave it everything that I possibly could, and if it turns out to be amazing, brilliant, and if it turns out to just stay the size that it is, well, that's also amazing, and I can, you know, see what else I can venture onto. Joanne Lockwood: Are you gonna upgrade it to university girl or something like this? Or That's a good point. Everyone's like, what are you gonna do when you're Liv Maudsley: not on a school run anymore? I'm like, oh, we don't know. Campus conversations or something. It's just Joanne Lockwood: you trying to find a trying to find a new title. I guess a lot of your audience is gonna age with you, is it? Are you so your your your your genre that you're talking about now is is is aging with you. Maybe the moms who listen to you now and the children in the car and the school run, they're they're they're like you. They're they're 2 years older, and, their life is growing as well. Yeah. And we called it the score 1 because we thought, you Liv Maudsley: know, everyone can relate whether you've had a score on yourself, school on with your children, grandchildren, and we thought everyone can relate to that, so I think it's a nice name to you know, call and I think the school runs whether you go in a car, whether you walk, whether you're on the bus, it's it's always I think a nice part of the day, So we thought why not? Let's go out to the school room. Yeah. I think I Joanne Lockwood: think it's fantastic. It does what it says on the tin. I think it's good. Are you worried about being old? You know, you go to university. You're you're being oldie, weren't you? People are pretty happy. It's like being last year at school. You know, the youngsters are just coming at year, whatever, year 5 or 6, whatever they joined school. Looking up and you go, oh, yeah. You're the you're the seniors now. You're the seniors now. You're the seniors now. You're getting me old, aren't Liv Maudsley: you? You're getting me old. I am. I mean, for me, it's crazy. I turn 17, and I'm starting to learn how to jive, and I'm like, woah. This happened fast? You know? Feel like I'm growing up now. Wow. Less than a Joanne Lockwood: year, you'd be an adult. Yeah? Yeah. I know. I Do stuff. Go for a bit. Go for a drink. Go have a glass of wine in the pub. Yeah. Before you know it, you're like me. You're nearly 60. How did that happen? I'm Liv Maudsley: sure up here until 20. How did how did how did I become 60? It's ridiculous. It's it's crazy. It's like not allowed. Joanne Lockwood: Jo, yeah, try and keep yourself young. You know, it's it's yeah, you've got you've got you've got most people of my age or older, I talk to them and they're still the same schoolgirls, still the same schoolboy in their heads. Yeah. How you think doesn't really change fundamentally who you are. Okay. You get a lot of life experiences, you get a lot of different thinking going on. But I talked to my mum and she's what? 17 Jo. She's 85 now. And deep down she's still a young woman. She's still a young girl. She still thinks and excited by the same stuff. So Yeah. It's just that your legs fail. Your hearing fails. Your eyesight's failing. Yeah. You can't it just don't work. You try to stand up and it would be a click. Yeah. That happens. But fundamentally, inside, behind the eyes, you're still you're still the same person. Important to remember that joy element, isn't it, and just Yeah. Keep going back to it and say, let's think who I am really. I'm still that young kid. Still wanna play footy. Still wanna play netball. Still wanna run around the park. Still wanna get my knees dirty. So, Liv, it's been absolutely fantastic. We've had an hour and a bit together and chatting away and and plus the school run podcast we did the other week. How do people get a hold of you? How do people check out the School Run podcast? How do people email you? Or are you are you on LinkedIn? Yeah. Liv Maudsley: So we've got a school run podcast is on all podcast platforms, Apple and Spotify. It's just the school run, with Liv and Jane. We're on Instagram, the school run_official. Our website, which is not there yet, but it will be, and it'll be schoolrun.co.e dotcom. Schoolrun.com. And, yeah, LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn, Olivia Maudsley, my mom as well, Jane James, and our School Run is also on LinkedIn as well, the School Run podcast. So get in touch with us. I'll have a little listen to 1 of our episodes. Brilliant. I'll put all of the details in Joanne Lockwood: the show notes Jo people will listen to this. They can click on it, make contact. Yeah. It's, and, obviously, subscribe to the School Run Podcast as well, and and you can listen to the episode with me, which would be fantastic. Yeah. Jo absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you. As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to express my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lending your ear and heart to the cause of inclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord, consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites Joanne become part of our ever growing community, driving real change. Share this journey with friends, family, and colleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter. Got thoughts, stories, or a vision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk, and let's make your voice heard. Until next time. This is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return with more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire, and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world, 1 episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.